the tundras frame is weak and flimsy. that alone would keep me from buying one.

 

If a super ugly "truck" is what you want then go with the Tundra

 

Yes all trucks have problems. No one is saying the F150 Didn't but the Tundra is inferior to the Ford no matter how you look at it. The only thing it has which is better than the Ford is an un proven Engine which does nothing but give you better 0-60 time!. If people want that in a new gen f150 then they will by the 6.2. Once i see 10 year old Tundra's still on the road working hard then you can tell me the quality of Toyota is better than Fords. I Cant remember the last time i see a T-100 that wernt a pile of rust and running like an old dog. If you took the engine out of the tundra then it has zero on it which is better than the F150. Again this is why the F150 wins 99% of every shoot out it gets put into. The engine alone don't make a good truck. If i put the 5.7 into a Titan it don't change the fact that it's an inferior truck. Yes it well def be quicker 0-60 but who cares.

 

The frame is flexible, but not weak. It's an engineering thing. Flexibility allows stresses to be spread and absorbed - instead of breaking things. This flexibility allows objects to be built considerably stronger for lighter weight. Think bridges and tall buildings. They are built to flex also. Incidentally, I believe the Super Duty Ford trucks are of the same design. So if you think the c-channel design on the Tundra is weak, do you consider the c-channel design on the Ford Super Duty trucks weak also?

Here's a quote from Bruce Arnold, the chassis systems engineering supervisor for the super duty program.

"All of the big trucks use an open frame configuration"
"When you go up in capacity it's actually more efficient from a weight and strength perspective to go open-C"

That's why my Tundra will effortlessly, and smoothly, tow over 10k. I've done it. And the truck handles it very well.

Flexibility doesn't mean weak. Got it? If not, go talk to an engineer and they'll explain why it's so.

 

I will reiterate...buy what YOU want.

When I was looking at the Tundras the I could not get past the interior. Strange looking dash and controls.

You see any big construction fleet around they are driving F250-350's. Any show I've seen on oil drilling in Alaska I don't see any Tundras or Chevys OR Dodge...I see F Series Fords. When those guys need the tough **** and it cannot quit in that environment AND they can probably buy whatever they want they are driving F Series Fords. There has to be a good reason for that. My guess is toughness and comfort.

 

Well, that's your subjective opinion anyway. There are quite a few people that like the 2nd gen Tundra better than the Fords. I understand you may think they are wrong, but that doesn't make it so.

Shoot-outs are subjective opinion - the opinion of someone else. And like movie critics, their opinion doesn't always jibe with what other people think.

Again, merely your opinion. My subjective opinion likes quite a number of things about the Tundra over the Ford trucks.

The engine is actually a big thing as it's the heart and soul of a truck. With the Toyota 5.7 I don't have to worry about shooting a spark plug out of the head - and then having to even pay for the repair during the warranty period because Ford won't fix their screw-ups.

The 5.7 gives far more than better 0-60 times. It's a godsend as I tow around over 10k. It does it with grace, power, and FUN - smoothly and without a hick-up - in town or rolling down the highway in mountainous country (where I live). What's a regular tow-package f-150 4x4 tow legally and comfortably? Will near max towing in mountainous country be comfortable?

Look. I know you get your fun bashing Toyotas, and that's just fine. But, I originally didn't come over here to defend the Tundra against misinformation - which I now find myself doing. I came here to learn more about the 09 F-150 from the guys that own and drive them.

You apparently have never owned a 2nd gen Tundra or you probably would have mentioned it by now. So all you are doing is taking information you gather from others and then spewing it, often erroneously, in the worst possible light. This isn't helping the original poster of this thread - nor anyone else. Why don't you give it a rest and tell us specifically what you like about your 09 F-150 instead. That a topic you're qualified for.

 

This is funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrieIkkTx7Y

Frame strength test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRfE_XAk2mE

 

Yup! They aren't driving Tundras because the Tundra is a heavy half-ton truck, not a 3/4 or 1-ton which those guys need and/or prefer. That's probably why the this thread is Tundra Crewmax or F-150 - as the thread starter doesn't need that heavy of a truck.

If a 3/4 or 1-ton truck is what would work best for my needs, I'd be seriously looking at the Ford Super Duty line. They look like a tough truck. I just needed a good heavy, haul-***, half-ton. And the Tundra is filling the bill very nicely.

 

Agreed. The link does not say the 5.7 is going away, but it does indicate that it will only be available with the new Platinum package (which I assume will be slotted above the limited package) and the base work truck package.

This would be equal to Ford only offering the 5.4 in its Platinum or Limited and not the XLT.

Not a smart move imo but time will tell.

 

Art, you really are not helping your cause.

From what I have read, the Tundra 5.7L has better acceleration than and 1/2 ton F-150 (except the old Lightning) and maybe better brakes. Otherwise, it seems inferior to the F-150. I haven't shopped for either the 2009 F-150 or 2nd gen Tundra, but that is generally what people rave about the Tundra, power. More power is good, empty or loaded/towing. The 2009 F-150's 6-spd helps a lot with the comparison for prior F-150's. The engine has not had any issues since 2004 and the trans has never had issues in the Expedition since 2006 I believe when it launched.

As for towing everyone can ignore the manufacturer claims. People have moved 20k pounds of truck and trailer with far less power for 40 years. What we all run out of in half ton trucks is available payload. Even at 1400 pounds of payload which a lot of crew cab half tons do not have, take away people and cargo leaves less than 1000 pounds which at 15% tongue weight is only a 6667 pound trailer.

 

I believe in freedom of choice. I'm actually glad Toyota has stepped up and provided a real contender to the half ton market. More choices in the same market provides better competition so that everyone benefits. There's no doubt that Toyota's 5.7L and GM's 6.2L have upped the ante for Ford, Dodge, and Nissan to step up their game in that department.

However, do their bigger available engines sway me into buying their trucks? That's what having a truck is all about right? Getting the biggest, most powerful engine possible and everything else is crap, right? No, absolutely not. Thinking back to half-tons of fifteen years ago, their power outputs of even the biggest engines are smaller than the base engines of most half-tons available today. With the way those Toyota guys talk about Ford's 5.4L, most insinuate that it's a tired, inadequate engine, some even state that they would feel unsafe towing even a small load with the '09 F150. Really now? That's just ludicrous. Just hearing that statement out of someone's mouth (or keyboard) would make me seriously doubt that they had any relevant information to share. In 1994, the F150's biggest engine had 210HP and 310 lb/ft of torque (given that trucks of those days weighed 5k rather than 6k and above, but nobody ever talks about that in regards to power). Those guys would probably say this truck probably wasn't safe to move itself! My dad has a 1999 F250 LD (the F150 that's heavier duty, larger rear axle, larger brakes, heavier duty transmission, lower geared, etc. Basically a heavy half-ton) with a 5.4L engine that he has owned since 2003. The truck now has 210,000 miles on the original engine and transmission with only the occasional coil pack going out. All he does is replace wear and tear items occasionally. He uses it to tow his 32 ft fifth wheel between northern Utah and northern Arizona and everywhere in between. And yet, by some people's standards, his truck is unsuitable for towing because it doesn't have a 400HP engine?


My point is that just because the Tundra has an available 400HP engine doesn't make it a better truck or even a more capable truck than the F150. Sorry, it just doesn't. The F150 can still legally tow just as much and even more than the Tundra. Looking at maximum payloads, the F150 and the Tundra stay very comparable to each other across all model configurations (except for when the F150 is equipped with a maximum payload package). So where is the REAL-WORLD advantage of having a 400HP engine in a half-ton truck? Just a quicker truck is all. The F150 is just as capable moving the same loads that the Tundra can.

I have absolutely no doubt that those who bought the Tundra certainly love their truck and don't regret their purchase (well, except for some of those who experienced the problems such as the tailgates failing, cam shafts, and what other reliability problems have plagued the new Tundra in the past). I'm happy for them. But I wouldn't consider the Tundra to be heads and shoulders above the rest because of 400HP.

P.S. The topic about brakes. The brakes on any available half-ton today is worlds beyond what you could buy fifteen years ago. They are all excellent, some just more powerful than others.

 

On the topic of beds bending because of ratchet style tie-downs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTOFX7T7Vqg

 

X2 very well said. My brother has my dad's immaculate 1990 F-250 XLT Lariat extended cab long bed 2wd with the 5.8 Not that muany hories, but with the upgraded transmission, that beauty used to tow our 27' travel trailer with no issues. A bit slower to some today, but a solid truck... Get what you want dude, don't get ina fight over nothing. Both are great trucks

 

The engineer will also tell you that the c- channel design of the super duty frames is substantially thicker with a higher cross section than the 1/2 ton Toyota's frame. Toyota has made tremendous leaps and bounds in the full size truck market and the older gen tundra's seem fine to me. I have a buddy at work with an 03, 4.7L and it kept walking away from my 2000 4.6L through the hills of west Texas. When it came to payload though, I left him in the dust on the way back hauling rocks. Toyota is appealing to a little bit different market, ergo the grocery getter, soccer mom, around town market and relying on their rep for quality and durability from their line of CARS. That being said, they are doing a fine job of building the next gen truck and who came blame them for building a rocket truck. Thats what people want and the people who buy that truck prolly aren't looking for the best, just the fastest. Nothing wrong with that, it is a free country.
And it is pretty damn funny to watch the box of that toyo dance around like a big butt stripper

 

Cause? I'm unaware I have any cause - other than to call people on it when they try and pass their subjective preferences off as fact. Or when they spread inaccurate information. And I've pointed that out clearly enough for those that have the ability to see it.

Or are you possibly assuming I'm trying to convince F-150 owners, or anyone else, that the Tundra is a better truck than Ford? You're mistaken if that be the case. I know all too well that the Tundra - F150 debate will always be like the Chevy - Ford one. It will never end no matter what changes or improvements have been made to the trucks.

Due to personal preference, each person will always perceive one truck to be better than another. But, because of personal preferences and differing values there will never be agreement on one best. Kinda like beer. They'll all give you a buzz (if you drink enough) and wet your whistle. But do you want less filling, certain taste, light or dark, warm or cold, etc. They all do the job but there will never be global agreement on the "Best" beer. Too many differing tastes.

Thanks for the info on these. It is one of the reasons I came over here - to find out the status of some of the Ford issues. I let myself get distracted or I would be better up to speed by now.

I certainly don't. I try to stay within Toyota's recommended max specs. I don't know what those are for the 09 F-150. That's why I asked. I still don't know the actual numbers as they come from Ford. Dunesgirl mentions it can legally tow as much or more than the Tundra, but I was looking for the numbers. Guess I'll shop the Ford website and see if they are available.

Nice post, btw, Dunesgirl. I agree with a lot of what you say about the HP of engines in the past. They got the job done - and still will. But, I'd love to read what you'd say about HP if the Ford had the stronger engine.

Yes, that's usually the case. And of course, why they make 3/4 and 1-tons. Fortunately, my towing and hauling needs fit the Tundra recommendations. Otherwise I would opt for a larger capacity truck. And at this time it would probably have to be a Ford. Don't think I'd want a truck from Government Motors.

Peace.