It's from Top Gun Customz

http://www.topguncustomz.com/Store/G...view=249179697

After doing a test involving a Raptor, a stock FX4, and a truck with a 6" lift kit (BDS), I'm convinced of the following:

The Raptor is built for off road.

The suspension lifted truck performed no better than the stock truck. The difference between the Raptor and the other trucks was night and day.

If I want a lifted truck, why would I spend $2,000 for a lift kit when I can get this one for under $600?

 

Stay the hell away from that, please. A suspension lift will serve you much better over the long run. That kit there is a leveling kit and a body lift, double yuck. not to mention overpriced for what your getting...

A raptor is built for off road, and if you wanted a truck like that you would build a truck as such, to be tough off road. upgraded suspension and performance modifications that would be useful off road.

Most lift kits, say 90%, are purely for looks when they are installed, then the owner chooses to off road them. They are slightly more capable off road because of the more aggressive tires and better ground clearance, but are not a raptor.


Lift your vehicle right the first time, with a suspension lift.

 

x2.

 

How so? That's exactly what my brother in law said before we took his 6" BDS lift over the exact same test that I took my bone stock FX4.

There is a set of railroad tracks near the dealership where I bought my truck. That's where I tested the Raptor.

It's a 15 mph crossing. The Raptor sailed over it at 45 and it felt like a speed bump. My brother in law tried it at 35 with his 6" BDS and I'm surprised the truck survived the hit was so hard. I did it at 25 in my FX4 and it bottomed out. We took my brother in laws truck through at 25 and it felt exactly the same as mine at the same speed.

From what I read, there is no "off the shelf" lift kit that will make my truck handle the bumps any better. It would take a custom job and a lot of money. As you said, most of the lifts are just for looks. So if that's the case, why spend the extra money?

If I'm wrong about this, who makes a kit and how much to get actual performance?

 

The "test" you did with the rail road tracks did absolutely NOTHING to test the differences. All that tested was the shock quality. The Raptor has custom valved remote reservoir Fox shocks front and rear. Ride in a truck that is actually set up right (my Platinum on a 6" Skyjacker suspension lift has aftermarket rear leaf springs, and will be getting remote reservoir offroad shocks from King or Sway Away soon) and it will ride pretty damn similar as the Raptor, except for the difference in the higher center of gravity.

But yes, the Raptor is made for offroading...

 

First off your test is not apples to apples. You go ahead and get that kit your mentioning and then do your test again. I'll go ahead and rank the vehicles after that test for you; raptor comes in first because it is basically a custom setup, then bro in laws truck comes in second because it keeps stock suspension geometry and has larger tires absorbing some of the energy and likely some aftermarket shocks taking some of the jolt but still similar to your OE truck, last yours with a level kit and body lift. You will see when you sail over those tracks with a leveling kit how bad it will be. A leveling kit is basically forcing everything down in the front suspension to acheive your lift (meaning your losing suspension travel thus harshening the ride a bit but still similar feeling to OEM), a suspension lift lowers everything and keeps the OEM suspension geomoetry (meaning you still have plenty of travel in the suspension to absorb your rail road tracks and bumps).

No suspension kit guarantees to make the truck handle any better, I don't know where your coming up with that. This is where you que up the raptor, its built to handle everything your talking about. Why are you choosing to lift your vehicle if you don't like the way it handles already? and why would you lift if you don't like the way a lifted truck handled? Sounds like you need to trade the FX4 in on the raptor, it would certainly suit your needs. These questions will answer a lot about what type of kit, if any, would suit your needs. There are plenty of mods to accompany a suspension lift like sporttracto mentioned, and I have nearly all of them you could slap on a suspension, but that would be in your catagory of "too much money" and "why do it anyway". They do improve the ride and handling, but if you are still comparing them to a raptor then you will still likely be left unimpressed because its still not apples to apples.

Do some searching on leveling kits and ride quality, then you will see why a suspension lift is the way to go.

 

First, you need to decide what you want out of your truck by lifting it. Looks? Performance??? Jumping tracks??? Because that determines what you need and how much cash your gonna spend.

The BDS suspension, depending on the year truck, is PROBABLY just a 6" spacer on top of the STOCK coilover. So its the same spring and same shock as a stock f150. So thats why it handles no better than a stock truck. It may have diff shocks in the rear but 80% of what you feel is the front. SO now you ask, whats the diff between the BDS lift (spacers) and the spacer kit you've suggested. The BDS, though its really just spacers, is better than that pkg you suggested because it has a new lower cradle (this lowers the center differential thus correcting your IFS axle angles), extended radius arms (corrects upper control arm so its not stretched all the way down and saves your ball joints from failing) and returns articulation back to safe angles. Not to mention, it also can save you some computer/traction control/RSC errors. Your spacer kit will stress your control arms and ball joints and axles to a dangerous point and as FX4life said, it will eat up all of your downward articulation. Leveling kits use your suspensions downward droop as lift... so u lose it. They also often cause traction control and RSC issues (truck thinks its rolling over and applies brakes in turns - not all do this but its fairly common).

Now the Raptor. If you want to compare anything to a raptor, you need to get a SYSTEM that has NEW COILOVERS (no disrespect but a coilover is the shock n spring all in one)for the front and Serious shocks in rear (dual reservoir). All systems are NOT equal. That BDS you are thinking is comparable to ALL aftermarket lifts is basically on the cheaper side. It uses a spacer on top of the stock coilpack. There are a few options for lifts with all new coilovers in front... Fabtech, ProComp (which is the one i have), etc. They cost more but performance costs ya. But It will outperform that BDS in your test you spoke of (which is really testing dampening and rebound... shocks n springs). BUT, although it will get you closer to a Raptor, it still wont match it. That raptor has some VERY EXPENSIVE Fox Racing shocks specially engineered for the F150 that you cannot buy off the shelf. That truck has thousands of hours of R&D by Ford engineers. Its purpose built. Aftermarket companies dont have the cash to match that.

So best to worst:
1. Raptor
2. Lift System with new Performance tuned CoilOvers
3. Lift System utilizing spacers on the top of the stock coilover pack (BDS)
4. True "spacer" or "Leveling" kits (3" max lift with these)

 

Pretty simple, they are putting together a $200 3in BODY lift with a 1 to 200 dollar leveling kit. Think about it, your not even putting new shocks on with that "kit", if that's what you want to call it. I'm not going to knock that set up, because I bet there's people on here with body lifts and a leveling kit and it works for them. Like said above, it comes down to quality and how you are going to use your truck.

 

Good post! I thought all BDS kits use a replacement strut for the front but I could be wrong. Nevertheless it was a good read.

As for comparing the stock truck and the BDS lifted truck they can't be compared anyways since your stock truck is an F150 and your brother's truck is a BDS lifted Tundra.

 

http://www.suspensionconnection.com/...avel-ford.html

check out this suspension! its only a little over 4 grand!

 

LOL, I didnt even see that it was a Tundra with the BDS. So I will correct, The Tundra BDS lift does not change the front coils or shocks. The BDS lift for the F150 DOES replace the front shocks but leaves the stock coils. (Slight correction to what I said).

 

4 grand would just be the start. I don't see coil overs or axle shafts in that kit. You'd need to replace your fenders. I bet the cost to replicate the Raptor would be close to double that.

HogHenry, based on your questions and the one in the other thread, this may be helpful. If I understand the question, you want to know what's the difference between a suspension lift kit and the parts that are on the Raptor.

What makes the Raptor unique is the wheel travel. These control arms will give you that, they are similar to those on a Raptor. When you hit the tracks, the suspension was able to soak up the bumps more smoothly because it was able to cycle about twice as far as a stock F150.

Think of jumping into a pool from a high dive. If you jump into 5 feet of water you're going to get hurt. Double that to 10 feet and you're ok. That's wheel travel. Changing the viscosity of the liquid in the pool (replacing water with oil) is like changing shocks or shock valving, it will help some, but won't change the basic fact that you are going from terminal velocity to zero in 5 feet. The fancy shocks don't do much to soften the impact, their purpose is to control rebound and keep the vehicle in control.

Your brother-in-law's truck did not fare any better than your's because his suspension did not give him any more travel. It does not matter that it was a Tundra, the basic IFS design is the same and they both have about the same amount of travel. It does not matter that he has a strut spacer and not a new strut. That difference would be seen on the street in the form of better control. It's not going to improve suspension travel significantly.

With all respect for Sporttractor, that Skyjacker kit will not get the performance of his truck anywhere near a Raptor unless he replaces the control arms and gives the suspension more travel. The upgraded shocks will improve damping and rebound, but you just can't get 6 inches of travel to work like 12.

What's been said here about leveling kits is true. They limit travel. So now instead of jumping into 5 feet of water, you're jumping into 4. Having said that, there are more than one kind of leveling kit, some are better than others. The two-piece for example, does not push the entire assembly down as far, and by putting some pretension in the strut, it prevents the strut from overextending the other components on downtravel.

And as others have said, it all depends on what you are going to use your truck for. If you are going to be jumping over railroad tracks you need a Raptor, or you need to spend big bucks on a long travel kit. But otherwise there is some performance difference between the body lift/leveling kit combo, but only you can decide if it's worth the huge price difference.

 

I agree wheel travel is a large part of it. But wheel travel alone is nothing without the "fancy shocks" you say do little. The boys at Bilstein, Fox Racing, King, would beg to differ. The Raptor would be NOTHING without a dramatically well tuned shocks and springs. Even on a non-Raptor but lifted f150, The shock/spring setup can dramatically change the trucks performance with the proper lift compared to the exact same lift with just a factory 6" spaced stock "strut". Like i said, it WILL NOT match a raptor... but it WILL out perform a strut spacer kit by far.

And saying "It does not matter that he has a strut spacer and not a new strut" is just an insane comment. YES, it will make a differene and I would take a performance tuned coilover (shock AND spring) over a street setup with a 6" spacer any day. Wheel travel is NOT the only variable in the equation. The shock valving and spring rate is JUST as important. Thus $1000 shocks on the raptor. Maybe im misunderstanding but that comment is way off.

Oh, and saying "It does not matter that it was a Tundra, the basic IFS design is the same and they both have about the same amount of travel" is craziness too. Yeah all pickup trucks have a cab and a bed, that doesnt mean they are anything alike. IFS systems arent either, lol. He was comparing a raptor to a lifted Tundra in order to decide what lift to put on an F150. Too many differences in coil rates, shock valving, control arm design, etc etc etc to say thatTundra is the same as an F150. No, neither will compare to a Raptor, but if you are looking to buy and/or lift an F150, you cant use a Tundra as the comparison.

You said a lot of great things but I say some of your resoning is flawed. No hard feelings! Keep in mind, he wasn't asking what was different with the raptor, or even trying to match the raptors performance. He kinda admitted it wasnt possible. He was just reasoniing why he should spend $2k on a lift rather than $500. Differences are many and one big difference is quality of the shock/springs/coilovers... I dont even consider the leveling kits in this convo, lol.

 

Overall performance, you are right. A longer strut is better than a coil spacer. One reason is that it will be valved for the weight of the larger tire. But the OP performed one test where wheel travel was the deciding factor. In that test, there is not a shock or coilover setup that will smooth the ride without the corresponding wheel travel. I think he was expecting something else, or at least his brother was.

My point in saying that the basic IFS design is the same, was to point out that it would not have mattered if his brother's truck was a Tundra or an F150. I never meant to compare either one to a Raptor. And in the test that he did, it would not matter if it was a spacer or coilover. When you exceed the travel of your suspension and there's still a lot of energy coming down, it's going to hurt. Again, I'm just looking at the example of hitting a railroad crossing at high speed. It's not a comprehensive test.

The superiority of a suspension lift with a full strut replacement to a spacer kit will be seen on the street, rough roads and dirt roads. That's what those systems are made for, not bombing through the whoops at high speed (or jumping railroad tracks). For that you need a Raptor or a $10,000 budget.

 

when it comes down to it...no lifted truck will ever ride as good as the raptor does, the plain and simple fact is the raptor flat out has more useable wheel travel backed by a very good set of shocks, i dont care how big of "lift" you have your only using a drop bracket to lift the truck...suspension travel in the front of our trucks remains relativly unchanged and ibrocun your absolutely right about that, 10,000$ is almost spot on and its almost around what i will be spending on my trucks longtravel after the smoke clears, 5100$ for the front end 1200 for front coil overs, 500-1000 for rear shocks, deaver spring packs, fiberglass fenders and bed sides, 37" tires, new wheels, eventually gears, honestly the raptor is a pretty damn good bang for the buck when you think about it!