[QUOTE=Ed753;4462813]Actually one of the things I like about the Tundra is the Double-Cab, bigger than the Super-Cab, (enough-so that people can comfortable sit back there) yet you don't have to sacrifice the bed length and/or go for the super-long wheel-base, Crew-Cab with 6.5' bed, that is just that much more of a nightmare to park, than a full-size truck already is.



Umm...I guess. Different strokes right? I haul around people in my truck often. Sitting in the back of the double-cab Tundra for an averaged sized adult is not comfortable. I can personally attest to that. Also so for me, parking the SCREW w/6.5 ft bed is easy!!!

 

As I said, the reason for this is likely an inadequately sized data sample, bad data, or poorly chosen algorithms for processing the data. These companies are also probably using either the same data, or derivatives of the same data. Yes, these "titans of reliability information" can't get it right. I always use this exact issue to inform people of why I think they should take CR and other such data with a grain of salt.

I'm not a brand loyalist, I really enjoyed the 12 years of driving GM trucks and thought they were great trucks, but I now drive a 2011 Ford and am just as happy.

So let me just say again, they're the same truck.


Note the GMC rolling down the line between two Chevys.

And from maintaining my own, I'd add that the part numbers for both are always identical with the exception of exterior trim and interior trim pieces that need to have a different curve or emblem in them.

Brand loyalty data simply demonstrates how vulnerable the average human is to marketing.

Same truck.

 

I like the GMCs taillights and headlights better than the Chevys

 

^x2

 

OP I would go drive both trucks and make a decision that way. Me personally I think the Tundras are uglier then sin and even the motor doesn't appeal to me but your opinion may differ. I kept telling myself before that my next truck would be either a new ram or GMC. Not that I have anything against Ford. I just wouldn't mind testing other manufacturers offerings but now im pretty sure my next purchase will be an ecoboost f150. I think with the release of the new powertrains that Ford owns the truck market now. They offer a truck for anyone now.

 

So the Sierra and Silverado have different quality and reliability ratings whether you believe them or not, and Sierra usually has better paint quality and workmanship even though they are made on the same line. There are different front ends, hoods, front fenders, grilles, and headlamps, as well as different taillights and box designs, different interiors. They perform differently in the shootout - see pickuptrucks.com. There are differences in ride quality. Up until recently the 6 speed trans was only in the GM Sierra, and only the 6.2 was in the GM Sierra. The 6 speed transmission was in the Denali and the rest and had a 4 speed, and 07 and 08 Silverado could only be bought with a 4 speed. It wasn't until the 09 that Silverado got the 6 speed, so all Silverados and Sierras are the same?????? Sorry, that doesn't work for me and GM doeesn't see it that way either. But forgetting all of that, I would rank the GM higher than the Silverado on the more upscale styling alone although it isn't that special. I wasn't even trying to make a statement on GM and Chevy. The point I was making was Toyota is last on my list. If OP wants the Tundra he wants the worst truck in my opinion.

Here's my updated list:
1) F150
2) Mark LT (Mexico only)
3) Sierra
4) Ram
5) Silverado
6) Titan
7) Tundra

Yes, I'd rather drive a Nissan Titan than a Toyota Tundra.

 

Have you even driven a Tundra? We are a Toyota first family and have owned nothing but Toyota's since 1991 but even we wouldn't buy the Tundra.

The only thing going for it is the drivetrain. The engine and tranny are smooth. Brakes are outstanding. Too bad the rest of the truck is a P>O>S. They are ugly for starters. There is no option of a 6.5' bed on the Crewmax so the Tundra isn't even an option.
The frame is a joke.
The interior is butt ugly with the tunnel gauges being hard to see and you can't reach the center controls.

It was rushed to market and it shows. No wonder Toyota's President said he was ashamed of the Tundra, I am too.
To say it is worse that GM and Chevy, Dodge? come on. Those are nothing but Junk.

I'd own the Tundra over anything but the F150 right now.

 

They didn't have the same suspension setup.


That's why it didn't perform the same way.

 

Sorry dude, still the same exact parts bin. The Denali got some bits before they were available in other trucks due to limited supply, but the other trucks have them now. And you're talking about the Sierra Denali (which is a unique item), not a regular Sierra.

As far as differences in ride quality... they probably compared different suspension packages. Go test out a couple F-150s, e.g., an unladen Raptor vs an unladen longbed reg cab with the 8600lb GVWR package and see if you notice a difference.

Sorry, CR and JDP are wrong. Again, strongly recommend them for picking out a good toaster. They're not car people, they don't get it, they just crunch numbers, and they consistently get it wrong.

 

To each his own. I owned four of the previous generation GMs, they were anything but junk. Reliable, high quality, great looking, and fun to drive.

 

The Denali is one of the reasons I ranked the Sierra over the Silverado. Now you’re trying to say the Sierra Denali doesn’t count because it is "unique." Well that just blows away your "Silverado and Sierra are the same" argument.

"They didn't have the same suspension setup." - Pat

Therefore they are not the same.

“As far as differences in ride quality... they probably compared different suspension packages. Go test out a couple F-150s, e.g., an unladen Raptor vs an unladen longbed reg cab with the 8600lb GVWR package and see if you notice a difference.”

Raptor vs heavy duty payload F150 is an apples and oranges comparison. These were regular Sierra and Silverado supercrew with the same bed. Sierra had different shocks (another difference) but as Mike said that enough to make that much of a difference (there is that word again – difference) in braking and autocross and hill climb? Maybe. Or maybe it was something else.

"Prior to buying my Raptor a couple weeks ago, I had a 2004 Sierra. Before that, a 2003 Silverado. Before that, a 2001 GMC C3. Before that, a 1999 Silverado. They're all the same truck. Mmany changes were made across the model years, but always to both lines."

See Sierra only having the 6 speed and a 6.2 above. Silverado only had 4 speed while Sierra had a 6 speed. Yep, they were "always" the same. In 09 Silverado finally got the 6 speed. Does Silverado have the Sierra Denali configurations but under a different name? Nope. So the changes are not made to both. Also, AWD was added to the Sierra, another difference between the Silverado and Sierra. Is there any current gen Silverado with AWD? Nope. But the Silverado and Sierra are all "the same", right? Wrong. There are clearly differences other than the name and "marketing."

I can also say they all don't come down the same line. Some Silverados and Sierras are made in Mexico.

 

Here is what Mike Levine at pickuptrucks.com had to say about it at the time...

You're absolutely correct to question why the Sierra and Silverado scored so far apart when they had identical powertrains.

We were very tough with our performance grades, giving 6-down-to-1 points awarded based on how they placed in tests like the quarter-mile. This is where the Sierra fell short.

The Sierra was last in the autocross (ride, handling, stability control) when the Silverado finished first. It was also last in 60 to 0 mph braking, when the Silverado finished third. The Tundra also beat the Sierra in the quarter-mile unloaded and hill climb tests, so it placed third to Silverado for those two tests.

I'll reiterate that we ran each test a minimum of three times in each truck with the same driver. Instrumentation and results were administered by Ricardo Inc.

The Sierra apparently had a bad day.

---

The GMC Sierra also had different shocks from the Silverado. Is that enough to make the difference in the autocross and brake tests? Maybe. Or maybe it was something else.

I'll restate that 1.) we used the same driver in every test, 2.) drove all the trucks back-to-back during the test, 3.) ran each truck a minimum of 3 times and 4.) hired Ricardo Inc. to instrument the trucks and gather the measurements.

How does that mean we don't have testing credibility?

-

And for a fifth opinion, Motor Trend also rates the Silverado and Sierra differently.
http://www.trucktrend.com/roadtests/..._and_data.html

 

I have no idea what you are saying or basing it on, all I have are facts........

For 2010 Model year, 69% of all Tundra's have the 5.7L, for whatever reason, its the common/volume engine, the 4.6L V8 and 4.0L V6 share the remaining 31%, and those are primarily in the regular cab work/fleet trucks, so the EXT/Crew segment that I was talking about, is even a higher percentage.

Looking at the F150, its about 50% - 50% for the 4.6L and the 5.4L (The handful of Raptor's with the 6.2L don't even register in the totals of almost 400,000 F150's) and its way too early to tell what people are going to buy at this point for 2011, but I have a strong feeling that people that buy pick-ups are rather traditional, and are going to buy a traditional engine (for the vehicle) so that would lead me to believe, that the 5.0L is going to be 60-70%, which would be the common/volume engine, get back to me in a year and I'll look up the numbers for the 2011........... wanna bet?

 

I'm quite familiar with the Sierra Denali line. Dad has an 08. Great truck. My C3 was essentially an '01 Sierra Denali (they added quadrasteer to the C3 in '02 and renamed it Denali). Yes, there are special editions unique to each brand, including the Sierra C3/Denali, Yukon Denali, Silverado SS, Avalanche/Tahoe/Silverado Z71, etc.

You couldn't get a non-Denali with the 6-speed in 07/08. Either brand. Big part of the reason Dad went for the Denali.

If you look at any standard-edition (not special edition) truck from GMC compared to Chevy, i.e., 90% of them, they're absolutely identical minus exterior panels and badges. They also may group options slightly differently, e.g., back in 99 the highest trim level "LT" Chevy used to automatically mean heated seats. They were still an optional item on the corresponding GMC "SLT".

But as far as the components and part numbers go that make up the truck, they're still identical. Have heard so many folks (typically GMC owners) say that GMCs are somehow a fundamentally superior product to the Chevy. They're not more reliable, they're not better in any objective capacity.

As to why one GM truck worked better than another in a review....I'll bet one had received a more thorough beating from its prior press engagements than the other. Or one of them was broken.

And as for Motor Trend...well, they're the butt of automotive journalism to begin with. I can't make it through one of their reviews without being disgusted at their lack of knowledge. They can't even manage to correctly transcribe manufacturer specifications into their magazine.

 

TOYOTA. The first three letters tell you what it is...........