2010 5.4L outperforms 2011 ecoboost
#91
08-03-2011, 01:42 PM
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I disagree with you Dave and I feel that the language and tone in your last post is uncalled for. The OP has been nice enough to share his situation and I for one am glad he has done so. Maybe it will help those others that run into the same situation in the future.
What issues you and others have had with the 6.0 have nothing to do with this motor.
Why don't we wait and see what the outcome is before we bash the poster and others for having a discussion about their vehicles.
You never know, someone in the future may take your advice and not overload a vehicle, take a route that includes a 11000 foot climb, or buy a used 6.0 F350.
What issues you and others have had with the 6.0 have nothing to do with this motor.
Why don't we wait and see what the outcome is before we bash the poster and others for having a discussion about their vehicles.
You never know, someone in the future may take your advice and not overload a vehicle, take a route that includes a 11000 foot climb, or buy a used 6.0 F350.
#92
08-03-2011, 01:49 PM
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I disagree with you Dave and I feel that the language and tone in your last post is uncalled for. The OP has been nice enough to share his situation and I for one am glad he has done so. Maybe it will help those others that run into the same situation in the future.
What issues you and others have had with the 6.0 have nothing to do with this motor.
Why don't we wait and see what the outcome is before we bash the poster and others for having a discussion about their vehicles.
You never know, someone in the future may take your advice and not overload a vehicle, take a route that includes a 11000 foot climb, or buy a used 6.0 F350.
What issues you and others have had with the 6.0 have nothing to do with this motor.
Why don't we wait and see what the outcome is before we bash the poster and others for having a discussion about their vehicles.
You never know, someone in the future may take your advice and not overload a vehicle, take a route that includes a 11000 foot climb, or buy a used 6.0 F350.
#93
08-03-2011, 01:58 PM
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Unfortunatly it is completly different and they are completely different driving styles between a turo charged vehicle and non turbo charged vehicle. Ford accounted for normal driving and towing with a margin built in for safety. A turbo charged vehicle produces a ton more heat than a regular vehicle but you also need to use the mellon attached to your neck as well when driving and towing and not just stuff your foot into it and ignore everything else around you. I see in your sig that you have a Power Stroke Super Duty, do you just stuff your foot into it and prey for the best when towing with it? Or do you pay attention and adjust how far you stuff your right foot in it? Another question, do you have a set of gauges to monitor what's going on with your EGT's, boost, trans temp, and is your truck completly 100% stock or have you modded it with custom tunes, exhaust, intake, and any deletes?
When I bought my 6.0 I went into it knowing that there were problems with the motor. I have addresed one major one and I am waiting to do the head gaskets when they fail (not if but when). Since I have done the EGR delete on my truck it runs great and I have not had a problem with it. But good grief do some research and be informed on what you are buying and the engine that's in it for crying out loud!!! And for gods sake remove your heads from your **** rectal cavity and pay attention to what's going on around you and what you are doing. But hey that makes to much sense, so lets come on the internet and bitch and complain that my brand new truck overheated pulling a mountain pass with a trailer that's to heavy for the truck and in 100*+ heat as well as the fact the guy kept pushing the truck instead backing off the throttle and pulling off on a safety turn out and letting the damn thing cool off.
But hey what do I know!! I have only been driving heavy trucks since I was 18 and the last 11 years were in turbo charged diesels with the heaviest grossing out at a plated 60,000lbs.
When I bought my 6.0 I went into it knowing that there were problems with the motor. I have addresed one major one and I am waiting to do the head gaskets when they fail (not if but when). Since I have done the EGR delete on my truck it runs great and I have not had a problem with it. But good grief do some research and be informed on what you are buying and the engine that's in it for crying out loud!!! And for gods sake remove your heads from your **** rectal cavity and pay attention to what's going on around you and what you are doing. But hey that makes to much sense, so lets come on the internet and bitch and complain that my brand new truck overheated pulling a mountain pass with a trailer that's to heavy for the truck and in 100*+ heat as well as the fact the guy kept pushing the truck instead backing off the throttle and pulling off on a safety turn out and letting the damn thing cool off.
But hey what do I know!! I have only been driving heavy trucks since I was 18 and the last 11 years were in turbo charged diesels with the heaviest grossing out at a plated 60,000lbs.
As far as my truck (which really doesn't matter in this thread), it is 100% stock with the exception of a bug shield, tonneau cover, and fifth wheel hitch. I haven't tuned it or modded the engine in any way, so I don't need extra gauges. I watch the gauges that are on the truck, and drive accordingly. Honestly, I haven't had the need to "stuff my foot into it" at all as it tows my 8k fiver just fine. I set my cruise on about 67 on the interstate and let it go. That doesn't mean I ignore everything around me, and if I feel the hills are too steep, I take off cruise and take care of things myself. Really, if you couldn't set the cruise and drive, towing up to the stated limit, thousands of vehicles with trailer in tow would be dead on the road. That's what the vehicles are designed for, and tested for, regardless of NA or FI.
#94
08-03-2011, 02:03 PM
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We're good!
But if you take it just a bit further; how many other half ton trucks are out there with twin turbos running on gasoline?
I think the problem is that this is really uncharted waters, and it will take some time to get these engines into every situation possible to sort out the bugs.
When I bought my 2010 with the 5.4, I did it because it was the fourth vehicle for me to drive with the 5.4. I figured that Ford had probably taken it as far as possible. I just felt more comfortable getting into something as old and tried and true as the 5.4. And the 21 mpg is not bad either.
But I really wanted to get an Ecoboost. Just didn't have the nerve to go for it. So I am watching the thread to learn. To see how it develops and how Ford will deal with the issue. If one exist. Maybe my next truck will be the ecoboost. Just have to wait and see.
compairing a 5.4 and EcoBoost is unfair and you are compairing apples and oranges and the Power Stroke while it's a diesel is the closest thing you can compare it to that Ford offers.
I think the problem is that this is really uncharted waters, and it will take some time to get these engines into every situation possible to sort out the bugs.
When I bought my 2010 with the 5.4, I did it because it was the fourth vehicle for me to drive with the 5.4. I figured that Ford had probably taken it as far as possible. I just felt more comfortable getting into something as old and tried and true as the 5.4. And the 21 mpg is not bad either.
But I really wanted to get an Ecoboost
. Just didn't have the nerve to go for it. So I am watching the thread to learn. To see how it develops and how Ford will deal with the issue. If one exist. Maybe my next truck will be the ecoboost. Just have to wait and see.
#95
08-03-2011, 02:04 PM
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#96
08-03-2011, 02:15 PM
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You have to use your head no matter what you are towing with! My point is, keep an eye on your gauges, and if the truck gets too hot, back off. You do this with a FI or NA engine. That is EXACTLY what the OP did. He didn't just put his foot into it and hang on, he watched his gauges and backed off when necessary. Kudos to him for that!
As far as my truck (which really doesn't matter in this thread), it is 100% stock with the exception of a bug shield, tonneau cover, and fifth wheel hitch. I haven't tuned it or modded the engine in any way, so I don't need extra gauges. I watch the gauges that are on the truck, and drive accordingly. Honestly, I haven't had the need to "stuff my foot into it" at all as it tows my 8k fiver just fine. I set my cruise on about 67 on the interstate and let it go. That doesn't mean I ignore everything around me, and if I feel the hills are too steep, I take off cruise and take care of things myself. Really, if you couldn't set the cruise and drive, towing up to the stated limit, thousands of vehicles with trailer in tow would be dead on the road. That's what the vehicles are designed for, and tested for, regardless of NA or FI.
As far as my truck (which really doesn't matter in this thread), it is 100% stock with the exception of a bug shield, tonneau cover, and fifth wheel hitch. I haven't tuned it or modded the engine in any way, so I don't need extra gauges. I watch the gauges that are on the truck, and drive accordingly. Honestly, I haven't had the need to "stuff my foot into it" at all as it tows my 8k fiver just fine. I set my cruise on about 67 on the interstate and let it go. That doesn't mean I ignore everything around me, and if I feel the hills are too steep, I take off cruise and take care of things myself. Really, if you couldn't set the cruise and drive, towing up to the stated limit, thousands of vehicles with trailer in tow would be dead on the road. That's what the vehicles are designed for, and tested for, regardless of NA or FI.
#97
08-03-2011, 02:23 PM
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We're good!
But if you take it just a bit further; how many other half ton trucks are out there with twin turbos running on gasoline?
I think the problem is that this is really uncharted waters, and it will take some time to get these engines into every situation possible to sort out the bugs.
When I bought my 2010 with the 5.4, I did it because it was the fourth vehicle for me to drive with the 5.4. I figured that Ford had probably taken it as far as possible. I just felt more comfortable getting into something as old and tried and true as the 5.4. And the 21 mpg is not bad either.
But I really wanted to get an Ecoboost. Just didn't have the nerve to go for it. So I am watching the thread to learn. To see how it develops and how Ford will deal with the issue. If one exist. Maybe my next truck will be the ecoboost. Just have to wait and see.
But if you take it just a bit further; how many other half ton trucks are out there with twin turbos running on gasoline?
I think the problem is that this is really uncharted waters, and it will take some time to get these engines into every situation possible to sort out the bugs.
When I bought my 2010 with the 5.4, I did it because it was the fourth vehicle for me to drive with the 5.4. I figured that Ford had probably taken it as far as possible. I just felt more comfortable getting into something as old and tried and true as the 5.4. And the 21 mpg is not bad either.
But I really wanted to get an Ecoboost
. Just didn't have the nerve to go for it. So I am watching the thread to learn. To see how it develops and how Ford will deal with the issue. If one exist. Maybe my next truck will be the ecoboost. Just have to wait and see.
). We have a fleet of 14 Chevy Silverado P/U's for our outside sales people and delivery P/U's and I am waiting for a couple years before I suggest the EcoBoost to replace them.
#98
08-03-2011, 02:58 PM
I've seen some speculation about how these EB's were run up the mountain during the overheat. I can only speak for myself....
My cruise control was off... I didn't have my foot mashed to the floor... I did the speed limit or less the whole time.... rpm never exceeded 3000ish... oat was 74*... engine temp was steady mid range until the event... Fuel was 88 octane. I was towing 7000 lbs or less ( I know this since I weighed my truck and camper recently at the local coop. Camper weighed in at about 6700 lbs. (It's a Keystone Outback 250 RS with an empty weight of 5700#'s) Summit was just under 11,000 ft. Started climb at about 7500 FT.
Bottom line is I wasn't beating up my new truck and was well aware of my load. This was not operator error.
By the way... I did use 93 Octane on my return trip up the mountain from the other side with no problems. The OAT was 10* cooler and the gradient was not quite so extreme. Temp gauge didn't move.
My cruise control was off... I didn't have my foot mashed to the floor... I did the speed limit or less the whole time.... rpm never exceeded 3000ish... oat was 74*... engine temp was steady mid range until the event... Fuel was 88 octane. I was towing 7000 lbs or less ( I know this since I weighed my truck and camper recently at the local coop. Camper weighed in at about 6700 lbs. (It's a Keystone Outback 250 RS with an empty weight of 5700#'s) Summit was just under 11,000 ft. Started climb at about 7500 FT.
Bottom line is I wasn't beating up my new truck and was well aware of my load. This was not operator error.
By the way... I did use 93 Octane on my return trip up the mountain from the other side with no problems. The OAT was 10* cooler and the gradient was not quite so extreme. Temp gauge didn't move.
#99
08-03-2011, 03:22 PM
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I just watched the video on Ford's site about the EcoBoost and I can tell you why the engine overheated. They are now running a water jacket through the turbo's, so not only does the cooling system have to deal with the heat it creates on it's own now it has to deal with all the heat generated by two turbo chargers thrown at it. And this is all done with the same size radiator that was in the truck before, no wonder why the cooling system got so over whelmed and was overheating pulling a grade.
I would also not throw a tune in these things because that will only make matters worse.
I would also not throw a tune in these things because that will only make matters worse.
Last edited by dsq3973; 08-03-2011 at 03:26 PM.
#100
08-03-2011, 04:04 PM
I just watched the video on Ford's site about the EcoBoost and I can tell you why the engine overheated. They are now running a water jacket through the turbo's, so not only does the cooling system have to deal with the heat it creates on it's own now it has to deal with all the heat generated by two turbo chargers thrown at it. And this is all done with the same size radiator that was in the truck before, no wonder why the cooling system got so over whelmed and was overheating pulling a grade.
I would also not throw a tune in these things because that will only make matters worse.
I would also not throw a tune in these things because that will only make matters worse.
That's not exactly true... The turbo's have their own supplemental radiator which is approx 1/2 the size of the engine coolant radiator. I believe they work in conjunction with each other. In addition to that, the turbo's are also cooled with engine oil. The radiator also has 2 large cooling fans that come on and off as needed.
And.... what's a tune?
#101
08-03-2011, 04:14 PM
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I just watched the video on Ford's site about the EcoBoost and I can tell you why the engine overheated. They are now running a water jacket through the turbo's, so not only does the cooling system have to deal with the heat it creates on it's own now it has to deal with all the heat generated by two turbo chargers thrown at it. And this is all done with the same size radiator that was in the truck before, no wonder why the cooling system got so over whelmed and was overheating pulling a grade.
I would also not throw a tune in these things because that will only make matters worse.
I would also not throw a tune in these things because that will only make matters worse.
Seriously, you don't think Ford thought this through? The OP's engine has an issue, simple as that. It will be fixed, the problem will be resolved, and all will go home happy (except for those that won't like the EB no matter what).
#102
08-03-2011, 04:20 PM
Senior Member
Bottom line .... when that twin turbo 3.5 litre V-6 combination is working hard she's putting out a lot of heat and you've got limited ways of getting rid of it. I think (call it my opinion) it likely the OP just found himself at the limits, not necessarily through any misuse but just in the course of what had been normal use before. To get that kind of power out of 213 cubic inches you will have to stuff those cylinders tight (hence the twin turbos) and you'll have a lot of heat to deal with.
Under normal circumstances, I expect the cooling system (trans cooler / engine rad / turbo rad / oil cooler) can handle it, even at peak power for short term .... but few F-150s will ever be called upon to pull serious grades in 100 degree temps with 9K in tow.
Possibly a bigger radiator (but not as big as those turbo charged diesel rigs hauling freight) someday ... or maybe a supplemental radiator would help if repeat performances are expected in simular extremes?
There you go .... and that's your opinion.
Later ......
Under normal circumstances, I expect the cooling system (trans cooler / engine rad / turbo rad / oil cooler) can handle it, even at peak power for short term .... but few F-150s will ever be called upon to pull serious grades in 100 degree temps with 9K in tow.
Possibly a bigger radiator (but not as big as those turbo charged diesel rigs hauling freight) someday ... or maybe a supplemental radiator would help if repeat performances are expected in simular extremes?
There you go .... and that's your opinion.
Later ......
Last edited by tbear853; 08-03-2011 at 04:37 PM.
#103
08-03-2011, 04:22 PM
Wow, Ford needs to hire you, and cure all that ails them!
Seriously, you don't think Ford thought this through? The OP's engine has an issue, simple as that. It will be fixed, the problem will be resolved, and all will go home happy (except for those that won't like the EB no matter what).
Seriously, you don't think Ford thought this through? The OP's engine has an issue, simple as that. It will be fixed, the problem will be resolved, and all will go home happy (except for those that won't like the EB no matter what).
__________________
Jim
Jim
#104
08-03-2011, 04:30 PM
Don't be too quick to judge. Dave does have a tremendous amount of experience with turbos and knows a little about what he is saying. Keep in mind, these are the same engineers that brought us the spitting sparkplugs in the 1999-2002s and the breaking sparkplugs in the 2004-2008s, pitiful window regulators, the dumb bearings pressed into the rotors on the 4x2 and other smart ideas. I think it's just concievable they will make another mistake or two. Will be interesting what the OP finds out from the dealer. I just hope his engine is not damaged. Had to be frustrating when the old 5.4 ran flawlessly and his new design didn't. On top of that, it was his BIL!
#105
08-03-2011, 05:03 PM
Senior Member
Don't be too quick to judge. Dave does have a tremendous amount of experience with turbos and knows a little about what he is saying. Keep in mind, these are the same engineers that brought us the spitting sparkplugs in the 1999-2002s and the breaking sparkplugs in the 2004-2008s, pitiful window regulators, the dumb bearings pressed into the rotors on the 4x2 and other smart ideas. I think it's just concievable they will make another mistake or two. Will be interesting what the OP finds out from the dealer.