2013 Ram
#136
04-24-2012, 11:22 PM
The only thing the leaf spring is better for is holding a bunch of weight for the least cost. It costs way less money to build leaf springs than a 5 link. Dodge could have made the springs stiffer in the Ram and kept the load ratings up. This would have made the back end stiffer and hurt the ride quality a little. Instead they limited the 1/2 ton load to just under 10k and pushed those wanting more into a larger truck. Not a totally bad marketing plan on their part. It can't be too far off, the only Fords that have more are the EB and 6.2L with the Max Tow. Most are actually in the same range as the Dodge.
This might be the only thing Dodge has done that stands out from the crowd. I would not be surprised if the air bags option on the new one really ups the load ratings.
This might be the only thing Dodge has done that stands out from the crowd. I would not be surprised if the air bags option on the new one really ups the load ratings.
#137
04-25-2012, 09:33 AM
The only thing the leaf spring is better for is holding a bunch of weight for the least cost. It costs way less money to build leaf springs than a 5 link. Dodge could have made the springs stiffer in the Ram and kept the load ratings up. This would have made the back end stiffer and hurt the ride quality a little. Instead they limited the 1/2 ton load to just under 10k and pushed those wanting more into a larger truck. Not a totally bad marketing plan on their part. It can't be too far off, the only Fords that have more are the EB and 6.2L with the Max Tow. Most are actually in the same range as the Dodge.
This might be the only thing Dodge has done that stands out from the crowd. I would not be surprised if the air bags option on the new one really ups the load ratings.
This might be the only thing Dodge has done that stands out from the crowd. I would not be surprised if the air bags option on the new one really ups the load ratings.
Pickuptrucks.com 08/09 Light Duty Shootout:
Ride & Handling...
'Some of us had very high expectations for the new Dodge Ram’s coil-spring rear running gear. The multilink suspension handles vertical and lateral forces with better control and less friction than the traditional leaf-spring rear ends the other pickups had. It turned out to be the fourth-fastest truck, at 48.94 seconds and 30.03 mph. The Ram handled similarly to the F-150 and Silverado, but with the most oversteer of the three. The front suspension dived noticeably entering the hardest curves. Surprisingly, it was a challenge on some of the corners to keep on the accelerator without the back end breaking loose.'
Pickuptrucks.com V6 Worktruck test:
Ride & Handling...
Of all the timed tests, this one was where speed and power made the least difference. Suspension composure and vehicle stability control were just as important.
The Ford F-150 finished the course in 69.92 seconds at an average speed of 32.34 mph. It split the difference in composure and body roll between the Ram, which had a challenging time in the hairpin turns, and GMC Sierra, which offered the most confidence rallying around the track.
The Ram 1500 was the slowest truck, finishing in 71.62 seconds at an average speed of 31.53 mph and trap speed of 52.43 mph. It seemed to have the most difficult time of the three keeping its coil spring rear end from wallowing around the corners, which would seem counterintuitive because we expected the multilink rear end to be an asset in managing the high lateral forces we put on the trucks. Understeer was also an issue. The front suspension dived noticeably entering tight turns but felt much better through the sweepers.
http://special-reports.pickuptrucks....ling-test.html
Standing out from the crowd - yes in a bad way. Great marketing? Yes, for people who don't use their truck like a truck.
The other problem with coil springs is payload/towing. On a Ram you are looking at 1100 to 1400 max payload on the Ram site and the actual number will be less because the number Ram uses doesn't include any optional equipment. A trailer can eat up about 1000 lbs of payload. So for the Ram that means a driver and maybe a small passenger and that's it. Leave your cargo at home. Ford can easily give you 1800 to 2400 payload on a crewcab. This is why Ram needed to add air bags: ride and handling was made worse by the springs and they lost a ton of payload. They should have just stuck with leaf springs instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. Ford went 6" longer on the leaf springs to give it a nice ride quality and provide proper payload.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxGlJ1mjIAw
Last edited by bluegreenf150; 04-25-2012 at 09:42 AM.
#138
04-25-2012, 10:59 AM
I think you missed the point; the 5 link set up is a much better design than the leaf spring. Load capability is determined by the spring rate not the shape of the spring. Dodge just dropped the ball in sizing the shocks and springs. They went with a more road complaint bias which yields a better ride but sacrifices load capability and handling. If they would have used better components then the outcome would have been much different. Plus all that weight would still be pulled by a Dodge tranny which has been a problem area for a long time.
Ford did a good job of sizing the leaf springs and shocks to suite the vehicle’s design criteria but they used a cheaper design to make up for spending money in other areas. Production vehicles are built to a price; the leaf springs are the same on a XL as they are on a Platinum so they will be built to the XL price point. Building a quality 5 link set up at the XL price would not leave much room for profit so the choice was made to stick with the leaf springs across the board and save the cash for other components on the truck. They then used the fact that Dodge did not up their tow ratings as proof that leaf springs are tougher. It was a marketing ploy and an easy sell, they stuck with the design that people have come to expect on a full size truck and have a higher rating. This must mean their design is better, right?
With leaf springs the axle only has two contact points with the axle at the spring perches. There is then a spring controlling the forward/aft, left/right and up and down movement of the axle. We all know that when you apply force to a spring it will bend, this is why axle hop is much worse with a leaf spring. When the power is put down the spring deforms into a wave shape which then rebounds and causes the axle to jump back into place. In this design the axle can move relative to the vehicle’s body depending on the deformation of the spring.
The 5 link has 7 control points on the axle 4 links to control the forward/aft movement, a link to control the left/right and 2 springs to control the up/down movement. With this set up the axle is firmly fixed in location to the body of the vehicle. It can only move up and down in the arc pattern defined by the control arms. The arms do not flex like a leaf spring does under a load.
If you wanted to control something from moving which would do a better job, 7 attachments or 2?
Ford did a good job of sizing the leaf springs and shocks to suite the vehicle’s design criteria but they used a cheaper design to make up for spending money in other areas. Production vehicles are built to a price; the leaf springs are the same on a XL as they are on a Platinum so they will be built to the XL price point. Building a quality 5 link set up at the XL price would not leave much room for profit so the choice was made to stick with the leaf springs across the board and save the cash for other components on the truck. They then used the fact that Dodge did not up their tow ratings as proof that leaf springs are tougher. It was a marketing ploy and an easy sell, they stuck with the design that people have come to expect on a full size truck and have a higher rating. This must mean their design is better, right?
With leaf springs the axle only has two contact points with the axle at the spring perches. There is then a spring controlling the forward/aft, left/right and up and down movement of the axle. We all know that when you apply force to a spring it will bend, this is why axle hop is much worse with a leaf spring. When the power is put down the spring deforms into a wave shape which then rebounds and causes the axle to jump back into place. In this design the axle can move relative to the vehicle’s body depending on the deformation of the spring.
The 5 link has 7 control points on the axle 4 links to control the forward/aft movement, a link to control the left/right and 2 springs to control the up/down movement. With this set up the axle is firmly fixed in location to the body of the vehicle. It can only move up and down in the arc pattern defined by the control arms. The arms do not flex like a leaf spring does under a load.
If you wanted to control something from moving which would do a better job, 7 attachments or 2?
#139
04-25-2012, 11:15 AM
Senior Member
I think you missed the point; the 5 link set up is a much better design than the leaf spring. Load capability is determined by the spring rate not the shape of the spring. Dodge just dropped the ball in sizing the shocks and springs. They went with a more road complaint bias which yields a better ride but sacrifices load capability and handling. If they would have used better components then the outcome would have been much different. Plus all that weight would still be pulled by a Dodge tranny which has been a problem area for a long time.
Ford did a good job of sizing the leaf springs and shocks to suite the vehicle’s design criteria but they used a cheaper design to make up for spending money in other areas. Production vehicles are built to a price; the leaf springs are the same on a XL as they are on a Platinum so they will be built to the XL price point. Building a quality 5 link set up at the XL price would not leave much room for profit so the choice was made to stick with the leaf springs across the board and save the cash for other components on the truck. They then used the fact that Dodge did not up their tow ratings as proof that leaf springs are tougher. It was a marketing ploy and an easy sell, they stuck with the design that people have come to expect on a full size truck and have a higher rating. This must mean their design is better, right?
With leaf springs the axle only has two contact points with the axle at the spring perches. There is then a spring controlling the forward/aft, left/right and up and down movement of the axle. We all know that when you apply force to a spring it will bend, this is why axle hop is much worse with a leaf spring. When the power is put down the spring deforms into a wave shape which then rebounds and causes the axle to jump back into place. In this design the axle can move relative to the vehicle’s body depending on the deformation of the spring.
The 5 link has 7 control points on the axle 4 links to control the forward/aft movement, a link to control the left/right and 2 springs to control the up/down movement. With this set up the axle is firmly fixed in location to the body of the vehicle. It can only move up and down in the arc pattern defined by the control arms. The arms do not flex like a leaf spring does under a load.
If you wanted to control something from moving which would do a better job, 7 attachments or 2?
Ford did a good job of sizing the leaf springs and shocks to suite the vehicle’s design criteria but they used a cheaper design to make up for spending money in other areas. Production vehicles are built to a price; the leaf springs are the same on a XL as they are on a Platinum so they will be built to the XL price point. Building a quality 5 link set up at the XL price would not leave much room for profit so the choice was made to stick with the leaf springs across the board and save the cash for other components on the truck. They then used the fact that Dodge did not up their tow ratings as proof that leaf springs are tougher. It was a marketing ploy and an easy sell, they stuck with the design that people have come to expect on a full size truck and have a higher rating. This must mean their design is better, right?
With leaf springs the axle only has two contact points with the axle at the spring perches. There is then a spring controlling the forward/aft, left/right and up and down movement of the axle. We all know that when you apply force to a spring it will bend, this is why axle hop is much worse with a leaf spring. When the power is put down the spring deforms into a wave shape which then rebounds and causes the axle to jump back into place. In this design the axle can move relative to the vehicle’s body depending on the deformation of the spring.
The 5 link has 7 control points on the axle 4 links to control the forward/aft movement, a link to control the left/right and 2 springs to control the up/down movement. With this set up the axle is firmly fixed in location to the body of the vehicle. It can only move up and down in the arc pattern defined by the control arms. The arms do not flex like a leaf spring does under a load.
If you wanted to control something from moving which would do a better job, 7 attachments or 2?
Because it is in the execution and not just the design. A better concept or design does not equal a better finished product. As the saying goes, the devil is in the details.
Dodge could have made the Ram tow/haul more, but it would have sacrificed ride. I think Ford has the best of both worlds with the leaf spring set up that they currently have. Had Ram executed the coil rear end better, that may not be the case, and maybe the '13 Ram will show that. But, as of now, the F150 is the best if you need to tow/haul anything with decent weight.
#140
04-25-2012, 12:16 PM
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I think you missed the point; the 5 link set up is a much better design than the leaf spring. Load capability is determined by the spring rate not the shape of the spring. Dodge just dropped the ball in sizing the shocks and springs. They went with a more road complaint bias which yields a better ride but sacrifices load capability and handling. If they would have used better components then the outcome would have been much different. Plus all that weight would still be pulled by a Dodge tranny which has been a problem area for a long time.
Ford did a good job of sizing the leaf springs and shocks to suite the vehicle’s design criteria but they used a cheaper design to make up for spending money in other areas. Production vehicles are built to a price; the leaf springs are the same on a XL as they are on a Platinum so they will be built to the XL price point. Building a quality 5 link set up at the XL price would not leave much room for profit so the choice was made to stick with the leaf springs across the board and save the cash for other components on the truck. They then used the fact that Dodge did not up their tow ratings as proof that leaf springs are tougher. It was a marketing ploy and an easy sell, they stuck with the design that people have come to expect on a full size truck and have a higher rating. This must mean their design is better, right?
With leaf springs the axle only has two contact points with the axle at the spring perches. There is then a spring controlling the forward/aft, left/right and up and down movement of the axle. We all know that when you apply force to a spring it will bend, this is why axle hop is much worse with a leaf spring. When the power is put down the spring deforms into a wave shape which then rebounds and causes the axle to jump back into place. In this design the axle can move relative to the vehicle’s body depending on the deformation of the spring.
The 5 link has 7 control points on the axle 4 links to control the forward/aft movement, a link to control the left/right and 2 springs to control the up/down movement. With this set up the axle is firmly fixed in location to the body of the vehicle. It can only move up and down in the arc pattern defined by the control arms. The arms do not flex like a leaf spring does under a load.
If you wanted to control something from moving which would do a better job, 7 attachments or 2?
Ford did a good job of sizing the leaf springs and shocks to suite the vehicle’s design criteria but they used a cheaper design to make up for spending money in other areas. Production vehicles are built to a price; the leaf springs are the same on a XL as they are on a Platinum so they will be built to the XL price point. Building a quality 5 link set up at the XL price would not leave much room for profit so the choice was made to stick with the leaf springs across the board and save the cash for other components on the truck. They then used the fact that Dodge did not up their tow ratings as proof that leaf springs are tougher. It was a marketing ploy and an easy sell, they stuck with the design that people have come to expect on a full size truck and have a higher rating. This must mean their design is better, right?
With leaf springs the axle only has two contact points with the axle at the spring perches. There is then a spring controlling the forward/aft, left/right and up and down movement of the axle. We all know that when you apply force to a spring it will bend, this is why axle hop is much worse with a leaf spring. When the power is put down the spring deforms into a wave shape which then rebounds and causes the axle to jump back into place. In this design the axle can move relative to the vehicle’s body depending on the deformation of the spring.
The 5 link has 7 control points on the axle 4 links to control the forward/aft movement, a link to control the left/right and 2 springs to control the up/down movement. With this set up the axle is firmly fixed in location to the body of the vehicle. It can only move up and down in the arc pattern defined by the control arms. The arms do not flex like a leaf spring does under a load.
If you wanted to control something from moving which would do a better job, 7 attachments or 2?
A bonus is that coil springs are much easier to change out than leaves. So you want a lift or a firmer spring for hauling loads, swap it out. Spring and shock tuning can be done easily to suit your specific needs.
One thing you forgot to mention. Axle wrap.
I did a custom long travel rear suspension on my Tacoma. I used extra long leaf springs, +9" over stock, so get a really soft spring rate and all of the travel I needed. Drove around without the bed on so I could watch the rear suspension move just after doing this as a test.
If I didn't have the overload leafs in place I could get more articulation. But the overload leafs also control Axle Wrap.
Axle Wrap is when you push hard on the throttle, put a lot of torque in the driveline. The wheels push on the ground right? Well it also twists the axle in the other direction, and the only think controlling that is the leaf springs. So in a high toque application your driveshaft rises and your pinion angle changes drastically. Up to the limit the leaf springs can hold. Broke my first set of leaf springs this way, twisting them up into a pretzel by the torque reaction and not running the overload leaf. For examples youtube "axle wrap".
On a multi-link setup there are links above and below the axle, so this force is completely constrained by the links. This is why the doge has 4 fore/aft links instead of just 2.
You can control axle wrap on a leaf spring setup. It involves basically adding two of the four fore/aft locating links the Dodge is using. One above and One below the axle.
Maybe someone will come away from this thread a little smarter. Maybe not. Either way, I'm done. See you guys later.
#141
04-25-2012, 12:21 PM
Leaf springs require 4 nuts removed from u-bolts and 2 bolts (one from each end). I can swap out a leaf spring in 15 minutes by myself.
To change a coil, unless you have quick sway bar dis connects and have a TON of flex out of your vehicle you have to remove a trac bar, sway bar, make sure you don't over extend any lines as you have to drop that axle ALOT to get that coil removed. Not saying it's hard, but it's not as quick as you are trying to get people to believe.
You do realize, alot of us know what a traction bar is right? we aren't as dumb as you think just because we don't agree with your hard on for the dodge truck.
edit: you want more lift w/ coils, you have to change a TON of parts to keep your axle centered in both the wheel well and from side to side. a Leaf spring other than making sure steering is not affected it's pretty simple to get high lift cheap.
You can also get a leaf to ride smoother depending of several factors.
You like coils instead of leafs, great. Just don't act like leaves are the worst thing that was ever designed because they aren't.
Last edited by 06yz250f; 04-25-2012 at 12:34 PM.
#142
04-25-2012, 12:56 PM
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How so?
Leaf springs require 4 nuts removed from u-bolts and 2 bolts (one from each end). I can swap out a leaf spring in 15 minutes by myself.
To change a coil, unless you have quick sway bar dis connects and have a TON of flex out of your vehicle you have to remove a trac bar, sway bar, make sure you don't over extend any lines as you have to drop that axle ALOT to get that coil removed. Not saying it's hard, but it's not as quick as you are trying to get people to believe.
Leaf springs require 4 nuts removed from u-bolts and 2 bolts (one from each end). I can swap out a leaf spring in 15 minutes by myself.
To change a coil, unless you have quick sway bar dis connects and have a TON of flex out of your vehicle you have to remove a trac bar, sway bar, make sure you don't over extend any lines as you have to drop that axle ALOT to get that coil removed. Not saying it's hard, but it's not as quick as you are trying to get people to believe.
Meh. When I did that custom rear end on the Tacoma I swapped leaves out more times than I can count experimenting and trying to get the right spring rate for my uses.
Then of course there was time I broke a leaf spring.
Lemme tell you, having your spring also be the locating links for the axle is very inconvenient when that spring becomes overstressed and breaks.
Four bolts on each side yes, eight total. That're exposed to the elements and probably rusty. Then you have to lift the whole thing off of the axle to get to the cetner bolt that holds the leaf pack together. What you thought those leaves just had a magnetic attraction to each other
Here's a picture example
Notice how the bolt head is on the bottom, so you have to lift the springs off of the axle spring perch to get to that bolthead. That's lifting the truck pretty high off of the ground. and you'll certainly have to keep an eye on brake line overextension and driveshaft overextension.
Chevy leaves are exacly the same. I would assume Fords are too, but I have never disassembled them.
As for Coils. Haven't done it in a truck, but I have in a car.
But all you have to do is support the vehicle on jackstands and rent a spring compressor from your local autozone. Compress the old springs, and remove. Nothing else to it. That's about all there is to a Wrangler, which is the exact same design as on the Rams. Not nearly as much lift required since the springs can be artificially compressed.
Having worked with and attempted to modify leaf springs several times over the years on my own truck, I can say coil springs are way easier to deal with changing them out.
You do realize, alot of us know what a traction bar is right? we aren't as dumb as you think just because we don't agree with your hard on for the dodge truck.
And the more you guys talk about how awesome your leaf springs are, the more I remember hating them.
#143
04-25-2012, 02:03 PM
If it is so much better, then how come the two pickuptrucks.com tests that bluegreenf150 mentioned don't prove that?
Because it is in the execution and not just the design. A better concept or design does not equal a better finished product. As the saying goes, the devil is in the details.
Dodge could have made the Ram tow/haul more, but it would have sacrificed ride. I think Ford has the best of both worlds with the leaf spring set up that they currently have. Had Ram executed the coil rear end better, that may not be the case, and maybe the '13 Ram will show that. But, as of now, the F150 is the best if you need to tow/haul anything with decent weight.
Because it is in the execution and not just the design. A better concept or design does not equal a better finished product. As the saying goes, the devil is in the details.
Dodge could have made the Ram tow/haul more, but it would have sacrificed ride. I think Ford has the best of both worlds with the leaf spring set up that they currently have. Had Ram executed the coil rear end better, that may not be the case, and maybe the '13 Ram will show that. But, as of now, the F150 is the best if you need to tow/haul anything with decent weight.
Originally Posted by Wookie
I think you missed the point; the 5 link set up is a much better design than the leaf spring. Load capability is determined by the spring rate not the shape of the spring. Dodge just dropped the ball in sizing the shocks and springs. They went with a more road complaint bias which yields a better ride but sacrifices load capability and handling. If they would have used better components then the outcome would have been much different. Plus all that weight would still be pulled by a Dodge tranny which has been a problem area for a long time.
Now back to your regularly scheduled pi$$ing match...
#144
04-25-2012, 02:04 PM
Meh. When I did that custom rear end on the Tacoma I swapped leaves out more times than I can count experimenting and trying to get the right spring rate for my uses.
research w/ an open mind (which you are not doing in this case). If you research you can usually get the correct set up w/ in a try or to.
Coils have different rates as well, so your point is pointless
Then of course there was time I broke a leaf spring.
Lemme tell you, having your spring also be the locating links for the axle is very inconvenient when that spring becomes overstressed and breaks.
And fixing one is not hard for a temporary fix.
Four bolts on each side yes, eight total. That're exposed to the elements and probably rusty. Then you have to lift the whole thing off of the axle to get to the cetner bolt that holds the leaf pack together. What you thought those leaves just had a magnetic attraction to each other
so all the bolts for links don't rust either? oo god forbid you drop the axle 3" more to pull that pin while slowly releasing all the forces held together by the pin. It's not hard.
Here's a picture example
Notice how the bolt head is on the bottom, so you have to lift the springs off of the axle spring perch to get to that bolthead. That's lifting the truck pretty high off of the ground. and you'll certainly have to keep an eye on brake line overextension and driveshaft overextension.
read above. Drive shaft over extension? wooptie doo the drive shaft pops out. Takes 2 minutes to put back in.
As for Coils. Haven't done it in a truck, but I have in a car.
But all you have to do is support the vehicle on jackstands and rent a spring compressor from your local autozone. Compress the old springs, and remove. Nothing else to it. That's about all there is to a Wrangler, which is the exact same design as on the Rams. Not nearly as much lift required since the springs can be artificially compressed.
edit: re-read what you wrote. Still if you go larger, things need to be changed
Having worked with and attempted to modify leaf springs several times over the years on my own truck, I can say coil springs are way easier to deal with changing them out.
Once again, research. I have pulled and modified leaf spring more than i can remember. It's not difficult if you spend 30 minutes finding out what does and does not work
Good. If you're not that unintelligent, then stop acting so dumb.
And the more you guys talk about how awesome your leaf springs are, the more I remember hating them.
ok?
research w/ an open mind (which you are not doing in this case). If you research you can usually get the correct set up w/ in a try or to.
Coils have different rates as well, so your point is pointless
Then of course there was time I broke a leaf spring.
Lemme tell you, having your spring also be the locating links for the axle is very inconvenient when that spring becomes overstressed and breaks.
And fixing one is not hard for a temporary fix.
Four bolts on each side yes, eight total. That're exposed to the elements and probably rusty. Then you have to lift the whole thing off of the axle to get to the cetner bolt that holds the leaf pack together. What you thought those leaves just had a magnetic attraction to each other
so all the bolts for links don't rust either? oo god forbid you drop the axle 3" more to pull that pin while slowly releasing all the forces held together by the pin. It's not hard.
Here's a picture example
Notice how the bolt head is on the bottom, so you have to lift the springs off of the axle spring perch to get to that bolthead. That's lifting the truck pretty high off of the ground. and you'll certainly have to keep an eye on brake line overextension and driveshaft overextension.
read above. Drive shaft over extension? wooptie doo the drive shaft pops out. Takes 2 minutes to put back in.
As for Coils. Haven't done it in a truck, but I have in a car.
But all you have to do is support the vehicle on jackstands and rent a spring compressor from your local autozone. Compress the old springs, and remove. Nothing else to it. That's about all there is to a Wrangler, which is the exact same design as on the Rams. Not nearly as much lift required since the springs can be artificially compressed.
edit: re-read what you wrote. Still if you go larger, things need to be changed
Having worked with and attempted to modify leaf springs several times over the years on my own truck, I can say coil springs are way easier to deal with changing them out.
Once again, research. I have pulled and modified leaf spring more than i can remember. It's not difficult if you spend 30 minutes finding out what does and does not work
Good. If you're not that unintelligent, then stop acting so dumb.
And the more you guys talk about how awesome your leaf springs are, the more I remember hating them.
ok?
Last edited by 06yz250f; 04-25-2012 at 02:13 PM.
#145
05-01-2012, 11:49 PM
Just sued Ford on my 2011 (6-speed 1-2 shift could not be repaired in four attempts) and really going back and forth on a 2012 FX4 vs. 2012 Ram. Money will probably be the deciding factor.
Greg
#146
05-05-2012, 07:01 PM
Start an Go engine (shuts off at stoplights) GAY!
Grill shutter--- in Sub zero weather it may help but worthless
keyless tailgate integrated with door locks--- Aftermarket, 105.00 bucks and you can do this to your for
Airbags-- I bet the Ford will still tow more.
Dodge junk and more that will go wrong with it.
I'll still take the Ford.
Grill shutter--- in Sub zero weather it may help but worthless
keyless tailgate integrated with door locks--- Aftermarket, 105.00 bucks and you can do this to your for
Airbags-- I bet the Ford will still tow more.
Dodge junk and more that will go wrong with it.
I'll still take the Ford.
#147
05-07-2012, 10:35 AM
Senior Member
Start an Go engine (shuts off at stoplights) GAY!
Grill shutter--- in Sub zero weather it may help but worthless
keyless tailgate integrated with door locks--- Aftermarket, 105.00 bucks and you can do this to your for
Airbags-- I bet the Ford will still tow more.
Dodge junk and more that will go wrong with it.
I'll still take the Ford.
Grill shutter--- in Sub zero weather it may help but worthless
keyless tailgate integrated with door locks--- Aftermarket, 105.00 bucks and you can do this to your for
Airbags-- I bet the Ford will still tow more.
Dodge junk and more that will go wrong with it.
I'll still take the Ford.
#148
05-14-2012, 02:31 PM
Oh Yeah shutting of the engine at stop light sounds like a brilliant idea. Just hope it starts back up. Great stuff when the engine is red hot and it keeps shutting off and on. You should do that with your truck today, but you won't.
Grill shutter HA! lot of good when you live in the South. It’s a pickup not a semi.
If you’re worried about gas mileage buy a Nissan Leaf and dump your Powerstroke. It's a pickup not a compact car. I'm not worried about mileage.
I would never buy or look at a dodge/fiat/gov./**** vehicle. I never did.
Last edited by Bluejay; 05-14-2012 at 06:23 PM. Reason: no more personal insults, please
#149
05-14-2012, 07:15 PM
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HA! HA! HA!
Oh Yeah shutting of the engine at stop light sounds like a brilliant idea. Just hope it starts back up. Great stuff when the engine is red hot and it keeps shutting off and on. You should do that with your truck today, but you won't.
Grill shutter HA! lot of good when you live in the South. It’s a pickup not a semi.
If you’re worried about gas mileage buy a Nissan Leaf and dump your Powerstroke. It's a pickup not a compact car. I'm not worried about mileage.
I would never buy or look at a dodge/fiat/gov./**** vehicle. I never did.
Oh Yeah shutting of the engine at stop light sounds like a brilliant idea. Just hope it starts back up. Great stuff when the engine is red hot and it keeps shutting off and on. You should do that with your truck today, but you won't.
Grill shutter HA! lot of good when you live in the South. It’s a pickup not a semi.
If you’re worried about gas mileage buy a Nissan Leaf and dump your Powerstroke. It's a pickup not a compact car. I'm not worried about mileage.
I would never buy or look at a dodge/fiat/gov./**** vehicle. I never did.
First of all shutting down the engine when idling just makes sense. Why burn gas when you're not moving? Do you like throwing money away? If you're worried about it not restarting then perhaps you should fix your truck, it's obviously broken.
Grill shutters are for aerodynamics. I wish we had them. I'm also sure we will soon.
As far as gas mileage goes, perhaps you're not concerned about it. But that's an idiotic attitude to have towards everyone. While the truck does not get the mileage of a prius, or even a normal car, it has other uses. gas mileage hits each and every one of us in the pocket book multiple times a month. Again, you must like throwing money away. But for me, if my truck was even a little worse mileage I probably wouldn't have bought it. Again it's a financial cash flow thing.
Say you have 600 a month. you can either pay 300 in gas and 300 in payments. Or 200 in gas and 400 in payments, and have a nicer truck. Which makes more sense?
As far as what you'd buy. I don't think anyone gives a rats ***. We're all here and already bought Fords, so obviously our decision has already been made. However, we can look at the improvements other automakers have done, and get Ford to implement similar strategies in the future.
And of that, I'm pretty sure we're gonna get start-stop and active aerodynamics (grille shutters) sooner rather than later.
Last edited by Kytann; 05-14-2012 at 07:24 PM.
#150
05-14-2012, 09:22 PM
Senior Member
And I dam sure wouldn't turn down an extra .5 - 1.0 MPG if I could get it and still tow the same! Basically, your whole post was idiotic at best.
You sound like a complete moron.
First of all shutting down the engine when idling just makes sense. Why burn gas when you're not moving? Do you like throwing money away? If you're worried about it not restarting then perhaps you should fix your truck, it's obviously broken.
Grill shutters are for aerodynamics. I wish we had them. I'm also sure we will soon.
As far as gas mileage goes, perhaps you're not concerned about it. But that's an idiotic attitude to have towards everyone. While the truck does not get the mileage of a prius, or even a normal car, it has other uses. gas mileage hits each and every one of us in the pocket book multiple times a month. Again, you must like throwing money away. But for me, if my truck was even a little worse mileage I probably wouldn't have bought it. Again it's a financial cash flow thing.
Say you have 600 a month. you can either pay 300 in gas and 300 in payments. Or 200 in gas and 400 in payments, and have a nicer truck. Which makes more sense?
As far as what you'd buy. I don't think anyone gives a rats ***. We're all here and already bought Fords, so obviously our decision has already been made. However, we can look at the improvements other automakers have done, and get Ford to implement similar strategies in the future.
And of that, I'm pretty sure we're gonna get start-stop and active aerodynamics (grille shutters) sooner rather than later.
First of all shutting down the engine when idling just makes sense. Why burn gas when you're not moving? Do you like throwing money away? If you're worried about it not restarting then perhaps you should fix your truck, it's obviously broken.
Grill shutters are for aerodynamics. I wish we had them. I'm also sure we will soon.
As far as gas mileage goes, perhaps you're not concerned about it. But that's an idiotic attitude to have towards everyone. While the truck does not get the mileage of a prius, or even a normal car, it has other uses. gas mileage hits each and every one of us in the pocket book multiple times a month. Again, you must like throwing money away. But for me, if my truck was even a little worse mileage I probably wouldn't have bought it. Again it's a financial cash flow thing.
Say you have 600 a month. you can either pay 300 in gas and 300 in payments. Or 200 in gas and 400 in payments, and have a nicer truck. Which makes more sense?
As far as what you'd buy. I don't think anyone gives a rats ***. We're all here and already bought Fords, so obviously our decision has already been made. However, we can look at the improvements other automakers have done, and get Ford to implement similar strategies in the future.
And of that, I'm pretty sure we're gonna get start-stop and active aerodynamics (grille shutters) sooner rather than later.
Last edited by fordmantpw; 05-14-2012 at 11:35 PM.