P0430 Permanent
#31
Quick update: I did get the new oil pump in time and started the install that weekend. I dropped a screw in the oil pan and it rolled someplace I couldn't reach it. While trying to remove the oil pan, I hurt my shoulder and had to call it a day (and the oil pan is still not removed). Last weekend, the temperature with the windchill was -12 (yes, negative twelve!) and we got about 8 inches of snow. So, I didn't do anything then. This weekend, it's been snowing since about 3:00 am and the temp with the windchill is -9. Tomorrow will not be any better. Next weekend it should be back up into the 20's and I'll give it another go at that point.
#32
I finally got just about everything done and was able to start the engine for the first time in months. It initially sounded a lot better, but after a couple of minutes, it started surging and acting exactly like it did right before tearing it apart. So all new timing components, the Melling oil pump, and 5W30 oil did nothing to fix the problem. The exhaust is still removed after the cats. I’m not sure what to do next. New plugs again? Put the old COPs back on? Replace the fuel injectors? At this point, I think I’m just going to get it running well enough to trade it in. I’ve had so many problems over the last 8-9 months that it is ridiculous. It also doesn't help that as I’m fixing one problem several more pop up and parts break frequently.
I’m open to any suggestions.
I’m open to any suggestions.
#33
For anyone still reading:
I ended up putting the original injectors and COPs back on, put in fresh spark plugs, and even put on the original air intake, but nothing got better. I first cleaned then then changed out the throttle body, but that didn't help (my old one didn't seem like it was working correctly). I replaced the vacuum canister purge solenoid and that didn't help. I swapped the MAF with a new one, but no change. I went back to the aftermarket CAI and changed between old and new MAF, but nothing. I re-wired the MAF connector, but no good.
Finally had it towed to my local Ford dealership. Took them about 2 weeks, but the best they could come up with was I mis-wired the MAF connection, as when they unplugged it, the truck actually ran and didn't die when put into gear or given gas (Quick fun fact: I was trying to run the truck with the MAF unplugged, but it did not make a difference under various circumstances. The one time I didn't try was after installing the new throttle body. This leads me to believe that my throttle body was going as well). They also had to re-flash the computer, which was something I told them initially they should do, but they resisted my suggestion until they couldn't get the codes to clear and it still wasn't driving right after re-wiring the MAF connector. I picked up the truck and it was fairly smooth going initially. When the truck finally warmed up (about 5 minutes after I pulled out of the dealership), the idle got rough again, though it was still mostly drivable. Firing it up the next morning, it was still a rough idle, but still mostly drivable.
My best guess is the spark plugs are probably fouled again from running rich before I fixed all of the problems (black soot, definitely not oil), the cats might be partially clogged, and oh, I've got gas that is several months old in the tank. I will be looking at the plugs to see if they are ok (hopefully this weekend) and put some Cataclean into my gas tank just in case. I know there are conflicting opinions that it doesn't do anything, but I figure I've got nothing to lose by trying. It certainly beats having to replace both cats again. I had to order a new muffler (I damaged the old one taking it off) and will install that and the tail pipe when it comes in, then drive, drive, drive and see if anything changes or gets better.
I ended up putting the original injectors and COPs back on, put in fresh spark plugs, and even put on the original air intake, but nothing got better. I first cleaned then then changed out the throttle body, but that didn't help (my old one didn't seem like it was working correctly). I replaced the vacuum canister purge solenoid and that didn't help. I swapped the MAF with a new one, but no change. I went back to the aftermarket CAI and changed between old and new MAF, but nothing. I re-wired the MAF connector, but no good.
Finally had it towed to my local Ford dealership. Took them about 2 weeks, but the best they could come up with was I mis-wired the MAF connection, as when they unplugged it, the truck actually ran and didn't die when put into gear or given gas (Quick fun fact: I was trying to run the truck with the MAF unplugged, but it did not make a difference under various circumstances. The one time I didn't try was after installing the new throttle body. This leads me to believe that my throttle body was going as well). They also had to re-flash the computer, which was something I told them initially they should do, but they resisted my suggestion until they couldn't get the codes to clear and it still wasn't driving right after re-wiring the MAF connector. I picked up the truck and it was fairly smooth going initially. When the truck finally warmed up (about 5 minutes after I pulled out of the dealership), the idle got rough again, though it was still mostly drivable. Firing it up the next morning, it was still a rough idle, but still mostly drivable.
My best guess is the spark plugs are probably fouled again from running rich before I fixed all of the problems (black soot, definitely not oil), the cats might be partially clogged, and oh, I've got gas that is several months old in the tank. I will be looking at the plugs to see if they are ok (hopefully this weekend) and put some Cataclean into my gas tank just in case. I know there are conflicting opinions that it doesn't do anything, but I figure I've got nothing to lose by trying. It certainly beats having to replace both cats again. I had to order a new muffler (I damaged the old one taking it off) and will install that and the tail pipe when it comes in, then drive, drive, drive and see if anything changes or gets better.
#35
I checked the plugs and they were fouled. I cleaned them up and re-installed (they only had about 5 miles on them). I re-installed the rest of the exhaust and the skid plate and fired it up. To no one’s surprise, it idled really rough, but was drivable. In park, I held down the gas to get the rpms up to see if that would help. It seemed to help a little bit, but it was still a rough idle. I drove it around the block a few times, then ran a quick errand a couple miles away. It was still rough, but seemed to be improving the more I drove. I then decided to run another close errand and the check engine light came on and it rode a little rougher than it just was. I immediately turned around and went home. I haven’t checked the code(s) yet, but I want to call the dealer tomorrow and tell them they didn’t fix it. They will probably try to charge me more money to look at it, but I’m going to try to convince them to do it for free against their labor warranty and see what happens.
Edit: I read the codes and got the P0430 again (probably not cleared from when it first happened, but I thought it would have been when the computer was reflashed) and P2098.
Edit: I read the codes and got the P0430 again (probably not cleared from when it first happened, but I thought it would have been when the computer was reflashed) and P2098.
Last edited by alag1983; 04-25-2021 at 05:00 PM. Reason: Added codes
#36
#37
It’s funny, I actually saw that exact same link after I posted the codes. I’m thinking replacing the O2 sensors again might help, but I’ll want to look at them first to see their condition. I am also wondering if the intake manifold gasket might be the culprit, but I don’t want to go down that road yet.
Also, I forgot to say it in my last post, but there was a strong smell of gas from under the hood when I first started it up, though after driving around, it was barely noticeable.
I’m not sure the best way to check for a vacuum leak or an air leak without spending much money or taking it somewhere, so I’m all ears. Otherwise, I’ll try to research options.
I also wonder if old gas is causing this. My last fill up was mid-November, about a week or so before it started acting funny. I still have 3/4 of a tank (36 gallons capacity), so adding in chemicals like injector cleaner is not going to help much. If there is an easy way to drain the tank, let me know - I have not seen anything other than actually dropping the tank, which I would really rather not do with that much gas in it (give or take 27 gallons).
I’ll talk to the dealer this week, otherwise I’ll investigate more when I have time.
Also, I forgot to say it in my last post, but there was a strong smell of gas from under the hood when I first started it up, though after driving around, it was barely noticeable.
I’m not sure the best way to check for a vacuum leak or an air leak without spending much money or taking it somewhere, so I’m all ears. Otherwise, I’ll try to research options.
I also wonder if old gas is causing this. My last fill up was mid-November, about a week or so before it started acting funny. I still have 3/4 of a tank (36 gallons capacity), so adding in chemicals like injector cleaner is not going to help much. If there is an easy way to drain the tank, let me know - I have not seen anything other than actually dropping the tank, which I would really rather not do with that much gas in it (give or take 27 gallons).
I’ll talk to the dealer this week, otherwise I’ll investigate more when I have time.
#38
I went back to the dealer and they did another hour of diagnostics for free (I spoke directly with the Service Director). They told me the driver's side exhaust manifold gasket is blown out and that I have exhaust leaks at pretty much every connection (from the manifold-to-engine through the muffler-to-tail pipe). Because of all of the problems I've had with the truck, I've had to bolt and unbolt the exhaust multiple times and am just using clamps to keep the parts together. I'm concerned that I've blown out another gasket (second one on the driver's side), especially because I've only put I think 60 miles on it since I installed it. I know I'm not a pro, but that seems very odd to me. I still think the cat might be clogged (or partially).
The dealership refuses to touch the exhaust connections because it is aftermarket, and will not fix the gasket until the exhaust is resolved. So, tomorrow I'm bringing the truck to a place that will look at the exhaust and will tell me what they can do, but they won't touch the gasket (because of Ford's problems with the exhaust manifolds). After they look at the exhaust and hopefully can fix it, I will try finding another place that will do the gasket. Even though I've done it before (a couple times now), there is either something I'm doing wrong or there is an issue that is causing it to blow out. For the record, the first one blew out because I didn't install the headers correctly (the sealing bead was not set right), which is why I went back to using the stock exhaust manifolds (brand new, of course).
I did some research last night and found various gaskets to be used for the exhaust components, but I don't know if they are worth using or not. I'll talk that over with the shop tomorrow (as well as seeing if they'll check for clogged cats while they are at it). I have not bothered to look at the O2 sensors, as I want to solve the leaks first.
The adventure continues...
The dealership refuses to touch the exhaust connections because it is aftermarket, and will not fix the gasket until the exhaust is resolved. So, tomorrow I'm bringing the truck to a place that will look at the exhaust and will tell me what they can do, but they won't touch the gasket (because of Ford's problems with the exhaust manifolds). After they look at the exhaust and hopefully can fix it, I will try finding another place that will do the gasket. Even though I've done it before (a couple times now), there is either something I'm doing wrong or there is an issue that is causing it to blow out. For the record, the first one blew out because I didn't install the headers correctly (the sealing bead was not set right), which is why I went back to using the stock exhaust manifolds (brand new, of course).
I did some research last night and found various gaskets to be used for the exhaust components, but I don't know if they are worth using or not. I'll talk that over with the shop tomorrow (as well as seeing if they'll check for clogged cats while they are at it). I have not bothered to look at the O2 sensors, as I want to solve the leaks first.
The adventure continues...
#39
Got my truck back from the shop and they told me that my cats seem to be ok, but they think the connection between the cats and the manifolds is not at the correct angle, which is causing excess pressure there and caused the blowout of the gasket. They recommended I take the truck to a different shop to have the pipes bent at the correct angle. Before I do that, I'm going to fiddle with it again to see if perhaps I can fix the connection without having to bend pipes and pay someone all of that labor. I'm also going to install new gaskets myself (both sides) while I'm looking at the exhaust.
It is a Walker exhaust that I picked up from Rockauto, so I would think that it should have lined up pretty well with the Motorcraft manifolds that I put on, but who knows.
If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know. I will hopefully get to it this Sunday, weather and time permitting (it is Mother's Day after all...).
It is a Walker exhaust that I picked up from Rockauto, so I would think that it should have lined up pretty well with the Motorcraft manifolds that I put on, but who knows.
If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know. I will hopefully get to it this Sunday, weather and time permitting (it is Mother's Day after all...).
#40
Finally some good news. I was told about an independent mechanic less than 1.5 miles from my house who knows a lot about Fords. I gave him a call on Thursday morning, dropped off my truck around noon and got a call around noon on Friday telling me it was ready. All he did was swap out the bolts that connect the y-pipes to the exhaust manifolds with shorter ones. Apparently the ones that came with the Motorcraft manifolds were too long and not fully threaded, so when I tightened them, it was not fully seating the parts together.
The truck now runs very quiet, which is awesome! It still feels like it has a small misfire that I need to investigate, but no codes so far related to it. I’ll need to dig into it a little more, but I also need to drive it more to get through the old gas. I’m hoping it is nothing serious or major. Oh, and I didn’t blow out either manifold gasket, so the Ford dealer I took it to didn’t even physically look at it - I’ll never bring any of my Fords there again for service.
On a slightly different note, while driving it today, I could definitely smell something burning and I was concerned that the insulation was catching fire again. After all my driving (around 30-40 minutes), I popped the hood, but there was mo smoke and hardly any smell, even though it was pretty strong in the cabin. The best I can figure is that when the insulation burned last time, it probably seeped into my AC vents. I was driving with the AC on full blast (not recirculating though) and the smell was strongest when I was idling at stop lights. I never saw smoke, just had the smell. I’m going to keep my eye on it, but so far so good.
Also another side note: the ticking noise is now gone, so it’s a good thing I did the timing job. And as far as I can tell, it seems like a lot of parts failed/were failing at about the same time that made it so difficult to diagnose and fix my issues. I really hope this thread has helped someone, as this has been a long, frustrating, and expensive journey (almost 10.5 months since I started working on it, the last 5-6 just trying to get it running again) and it’s still not over!
The truck now runs very quiet, which is awesome! It still feels like it has a small misfire that I need to investigate, but no codes so far related to it. I’ll need to dig into it a little more, but I also need to drive it more to get through the old gas. I’m hoping it is nothing serious or major. Oh, and I didn’t blow out either manifold gasket, so the Ford dealer I took it to didn’t even physically look at it - I’ll never bring any of my Fords there again for service.
On a slightly different note, while driving it today, I could definitely smell something burning and I was concerned that the insulation was catching fire again. After all my driving (around 30-40 minutes), I popped the hood, but there was mo smoke and hardly any smell, even though it was pretty strong in the cabin. The best I can figure is that when the insulation burned last time, it probably seeped into my AC vents. I was driving with the AC on full blast (not recirculating though) and the smell was strongest when I was idling at stop lights. I never saw smoke, just had the smell. I’m going to keep my eye on it, but so far so good.
Also another side note: the ticking noise is now gone, so it’s a good thing I did the timing job. And as far as I can tell, it seems like a lot of parts failed/were failing at about the same time that made it so difficult to diagnose and fix my issues. I really hope this thread has helped someone, as this has been a long, frustrating, and expensive journey (almost 10.5 months since I started working on it, the last 5-6 just trying to get it running again) and it’s still not over!
#42
I finally was able to get to about 1/4 tank of gas, added some injector cleaner into the tank, drove around about 40 miles, added some additional cleaner, and then immediately filled up with 93 grade gas (nearly $100!!!). It is definitely running smoother and the burnt smell has pretty much dissipated. Also, all of my codes, including the permanent ones, have disappeared, which is awesome! It is difficult to tell if the minor misfire is there or if it is just my paranoia. After driving it around for a few weeks and no codes popping up, I'll just keep my eye on it. I should also note that I've been working remote since March and barely do any driving, which is why it took so long to get to 1/4 tank. That also means that I'm no longer used to driving it, hence my comment about paranoia!
Now the only thing I have to figure out, and is something that has been with the truck since I bought it, is why the gas pedal vibrates at certain speeds and seems to not be as responsive (just a slight hesitation). Specifically, it is right around 25-30 mph, 45-50 mph, and 65-70 mph. The rest of the speed band is fine and changing plugs, coils, and injectors have not done anything for it.
Now the only thing I have to figure out, and is something that has been with the truck since I bought it, is why the gas pedal vibrates at certain speeds and seems to not be as responsive (just a slight hesitation). Specifically, it is right around 25-30 mph, 45-50 mph, and 65-70 mph. The rest of the speed band is fine and changing plugs, coils, and injectors have not done anything for it.