I put the wide band O2 on the truck tonight and it is showing very lean AFR at the tail pipe:

@Idle= 16:1
@light part throttle= 18:1
@full throttle= 13.5:1
@cruise (almost no throttle)= 21:1

I am running a 2004 5.4 3v with K&N FIPK, Edge stage 2 tune, and true duals with Borla mufflers.

I have never thrown a lean code at the computer, but clearly the tune is way off everywhere but at full throttle.

Does anyone else have AFR data?

 

I don't have a wide band, but I can promise you that it would not work on my truck! Ran like crap. I had it on there for about 10 minutes. I had no power at all. Take it off before you mess up your truck.

 

I am interested in getting a Wideband and have a few questions.

What wide band - Guage combo did you use?

Where did you install the wide band?

Could you post pics?

Thanks

 

I could be wrong on this-im no mechanic- but ive heard the edge doesnt compensate for the CAI and the exhaust. When you add the CAI and the exhaust it leans out the truck, the edge doesnt compensate for it. I think the edge is geared more for the stock trucks than aftermarket

 

I know I've seen A/F ratio numbers from another member with an AEM brute force and an edge tuner and the numbers were all stoichometric on a dyno run on level 3.

 

You show some interesting data.
See the 21 at light cruise?
This is where some people have a missing/stumble problem when one or more coils go bad.
The coil/s output goes low and can't fire the plug/s.
Just some added/related info.
Things get complex and stack on top one another, at times.

 

stoichometric is 14.64 - 5.64 * % Alcohol

You shouldn't be at stoich (Lambda 1) at WOT. Lambda .86 is a far better AFR at WOT.

Haha, yeah ok. It is called coasting fuel shut off. There is still spark, just no fuel.

 

He dyno'd at more than just WOT.

 

It should be a dyno cruise.

 

OK, this is easy to clear up, and this is EXACTLY what we have been telling everyone about ever since the 2004 F-150's first came out - ANY intake kit that actually increases power WILL lean the engine out. It's a matter of where and by how much.

The best results we have been able to get in this regard is with the 3.0" version of the AF1 intake kit we helped to design, as it does not lean the engine out anywhere in closed loop, and just a tad at WOT. Unless you are doing heavy towing up mountains day in and day out, it can generally be used on the stock tuning, though being a tuner, I always like to put in a bit of correction.

Now the original poster who started this thread hit on a few things - the first of which is that he absolutely NEEDS complete datalogging & proper custom tuning to correct the A/F ratio problems caused by that intake kit. In fact, K&N offers 3 different intake kits just for the 5.4 3V's alone, and every one of them leans out the engine enough to require correction.

Now where he saw about 18:1 @ "light part-throttle" *might* have been a transition into or out of injector shutoff on decel, that would not surprise me - however, that does NOT change the fact that he requires custom tuning to correct the effects of the intake kit - or put the stock intake kit back on. There are only two ways to correct this - either put the stock intake kit back on, or have proper datalogging and custom tuning done to correct his trims & A/F ratio. His problem is NOT just the 13.5:1 @ WOT, which is too lean for best power, let alone an A/F ratio for appropriate exhaust valve & combustion chamber temperatures - he has problems everywhere.

For our Troyer Performance custom tuning vehicle owners, we provide clear datalogging instructions on the exact data we require and how to get it, and our tuning devices come with free software that will deliver the data at a rate of about 90 samples per second, even at WOT - that data is what is required to dial in a vehicle's tuning properly for the aftermarket intake kit.

If you go to K&N's web site, you see that they, along with almost every other intake kit manufacturer, claim a power gain, but it's NOT at the peak, and they do NOT show you ANY A/F ratio data. They KNOW it's leaning out the truck, and they know they cannot correct it.

And don't get me wrong, the intake kits we sell the most of because it adds the most raw horsepower, the vaunted 3.5" AF1, also requires quite a bit of correction - but that is precisely what we do in our custom tunes, and we have done that MAF Xfer in excess of 250 times, something that NO intake kit manufacturer has ever done, by the way. So when we tune our customers who have that intake kit, we already have that correction dialed into the tuning.

Now at idle, the A/F ratio on pump gas WITHOUT any ethanol content should be 14.64:1 - in reality, most widebands are generally going to jump around a bit between 14.5:1 - 14.8:1 as the PCM trims the fuel constantly, and that is normal. The actual stoich ratio will change based on the fuel formulation, these days primarily based on (when talking about pump gas) the amount of ethanol content - the more ethanol in the fuel, the leaner the engine will run in O/L UNLESS the motor is tuned for it. Now by law, all vehicles from 1979 & up are required to be able to run on up to 10% ethanol content by volume - that, and things like the % of allowed injector variance, etc., are why closed loop operation exists. However, when we do our custom tuning, we prefer to know if a customer is using ethanol-blended fuel so that we can dial it the actual stoich ratio as well as make other adjustments so the vehicle retains maximum adaptive capabilities and is as spot-on as possible.

With regard as to WHICH wide-band setup to use, we prefer the Innovate Motorsports units, as they allow you to continually calibrate the actual O2 sensor as it's nernst cell changes over time (and the normal service life under proper operating conditions of the easily replaceable sensor averages about 2500 hours), and they are very cost effective. We carry all of those wideband products, as well as all kinds of other gauges, gauge pods, etc for you to choose from - please feel free to give us a call at our number listed below & we can go over all of that in detail with you.

And for the gentleman who started this thread, congratulations on doing your homework to see the actual effects of your intake kit - now you need complete datalogging and custom tuning to take care of it. We can take care of that for you if you like, as well as deliver the largest safe & sustainable performance gains - just give us a quick call or shoot us an email and we'll be happy to help.

Our bests to all,

 

Thanks for the responses.

To clarify,with respect to the "dyno" run, all data was captured while actually driving the vehicle on the road, not on a shop dyno.

Also, to address the question about my Wideband setup, it is actually a tool that I have used to tune several vehicles (Carborated Motorcycles, modified Subaru WRX, etc) and is not permanently installed. You can check out the wideband tool at http://www.wbo2.com

Finally, the fuel used during the test was Shell 87 octane (10% ethanol blend) with the addition of a bottle of Techron from the local Oriely's Auto Parts.

I have reached out to the sources commonly referenced on this forum for modified edge tunes, but am having no luck getting responses from any of the sources. Can someone please inform me of the proper channel to obtain the modified edge code?

And Mike, thanks for the note. I am seriously considering going with the Troyer approach.