why does orange peel occur?
#17
08-11-2004, 04:44 PM
Orange Peel
The main cause for the Orange Peel is the uneven spreading of paint, this is mainly caused by the improper distance (too far) of the spray gun. As the first portions of paint (uneven) dry, even if you go heavier and uniformer later, it will still have that look. This goes way back to the primer, it is why prep is very important. Once you have orange peel with your primer, you are done. It will just start piling up on top of each coat applied.
You can fix it before the clear coat by wet sanding it. After the clear coat, you can either go heavy on clear coat or DA the clear coat off carefully. The edges are at risk, you can dig into the primer or even metal. So, being careful is a must. I remember the first car I painted had orange peel 2" thick.
I taught myself though, now it looks better. If you want to fix it, you must repaint. If you want to minimize it, go heavy with the clear coat.
You can fix it before the clear coat by wet sanding it. After the clear coat, you can either go heavy on clear coat or DA the clear coat off carefully. The edges are at risk, you can dig into the primer or even metal. So, being careful is a must. I remember the first car I painted had orange peel 2" thick.
I taught myself though, now it looks better. If you want to fix it, you must repaint. If you want to minimize it, go heavy with the clear coat.
#20
08-12-2004, 09:27 PM
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#21
08-13-2004, 09:16 AM
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Re: Orange Peel
Originally posted by rebaza
The main cause for the Orange Peel is the uneven spreading of paint, this is mainly caused by the improper distance (too far) of the spray gun. As the first portions of paint (uneven) dry, even if you go heavier and uniformer later, it will still have that look. This goes way back to the primer, it is why prep is very important. Once you have orange peel with your primer, you are done. It will just start piling up on top of each coat applied.
You can fix it before the clear coat by wet sanding it. After the clear coat, you can either go heavy on clear coat or DA the clear coat off carefully. The edges are at risk, you can dig into the primer or even metal. So, being careful is a must. I remember the first car I painted had orange peel 2" thick.
I taught myself though, now it looks better. If you want to fix it, you must repaint. If you want to minimize it, go heavy with the clear coat.
The main cause for the Orange Peel is the uneven spreading of paint, this is mainly caused by the improper distance (too far) of the spray gun. As the first portions of paint (uneven) dry, even if you go heavier and uniformer later, it will still have that look. This goes way back to the primer, it is why prep is very important. Once you have orange peel with your primer, you are done. It will just start piling up on top of each coat applied.
You can fix it before the clear coat by wet sanding it. After the clear coat, you can either go heavy on clear coat or DA the clear coat off carefully. The edges are at risk, you can dig into the primer or even metal. So, being careful is a must. I remember the first car I painted had orange peel 2" thick.
I taught myself though, now it looks better. If you want to fix it, you must repaint. If you want to minimize it, go heavy with the clear coat.
The reason you see it with varying distance of the spray gun is the same: flash time of the paint. You want the paint to dry on the vehicle not in the air on the way to the vehicle.
#22
08-13-2004, 10:22 AM
TRUE
You are right, it must dry on the car, not in the air. But, for FORD's robots, it is difficult even they tried the Toyota method of painting. Toyota dips their frames in a chemical composite that gives the metal a negative charge. On the same note, Toyota gives a positive charge to their paint. So, when painting, the paint adheres better to the frame. The process is even better for Lexus, but still I do not know why FORD's robots can be better calibrated.
Speaking of such, what paint guns, do you guys recommend?
Speaking of such, what paint guns, do you guys recommend?
#23
08-13-2004, 11:31 AM
A bit of correction is needed here. Charging the paint and the part to be painted oppositely (called electrostatic painting) is nothing new, nor is it unique to Toyota. Ford uses it too. One big reason for using this type of process is to get more of the paint on the parts (called "transfer efficiency") and less everywhere else (called "pollution.")
Second, the charge is not applied in the primer step to be used in the top coat steps. Electrostatics can be used in both steps. In fact, Ford invented the electrodeposition priming process (the "river of paint") many years ago.
The plain facts are that there are a great number of variables involved in painting a vehicle and orange peel is an undesirable after effect of any number of them. Painting with robots is far superior to painting with humans because the robots can be programmed to use the exact same motions every time - taking one huge variable out of the process.
Yes, some of the vehicles every manufacturer sends out the door have what some of us might consider to be "excessive" orange peel. If you take better look though, I think you'll find the finish on modern vehicles far superior (and much less variable) in every way to the stuuf that went out the door even 5 years ago. When you add in the fact that these better finishes are applied with far less pollution, I think we've got a pretty good deal.
My solution to a vehicle delivered with too much orange peel? Don't take delivery and don't settle for a buffing job - which removes too much paint and protection. Have the dealer order you another truck. That's what I did once.
Second, the charge is not applied in the primer step to be used in the top coat steps. Electrostatics can be used in both steps. In fact, Ford invented the electrodeposition priming process (the "river of paint") many years ago.
The plain facts are that there are a great number of variables involved in painting a vehicle and orange peel is an undesirable after effect of any number of them. Painting with robots is far superior to painting with humans because the robots can be programmed to use the exact same motions every time - taking one huge variable out of the process.
Yes, some of the vehicles every manufacturer sends out the door have what some of us might consider to be "excessive" orange peel. If you take better look though, I think you'll find the finish on modern vehicles far superior (and much less variable) in every way to the stuuf that went out the door even 5 years ago. When you add in the fact that these better finishes are applied with far less pollution, I think we've got a pretty good deal.
My solution to a vehicle delivered with too much orange peel? Don't take delivery and don't settle for a buffing job - which removes too much paint and protection. Have the dealer order you another truck. That's what I did once.