About 2 weeks ago I got a new Sunglid SL. It's been raining cats & dogs for the last week, so today was the 1st time I've been able to wash it (and the truck). After washing & drying, the tonneau cover now has spider webs (swirl marks) ALL OVER IT! What gives??? I used a very high quality wash mit & shampoo. And no, I don't think they were there before I washed it.

1. Why all the swirl marks?
2. How do I get rid of them NOW? Will a good coat of wax do it?

Please offer your suggestion, and TIA.

PS - I know I probably should have posted this in one of the "Care" forums, but I thought I'd try this first since it gets alot more hits.

 

You're right. It should be up in GENERAL CARE AND DETAILING as that's where the majority of us who deal with this type of thing dwell.

But, today's your lucky day. I'm going to let it live here for a while before it's moved.


The swirls that you're experiencing were either introduced at the factory as part of the process (an improper use of a rotary buffer most likely) or, by the dealership from which you bought it from during their prep (again, with a power hand tool used improperly or with an improper compound).

So, you have swirls... let's get them out.

Let me ask you a few questions before we progress.

1. Do you have any experience with a power 'rotary style' machine? This includes, but is not limited to, an orbital buffer, rotary buffer, or dual-action polisher?

2. Are you familar with swirl remover compounds and/or other compounds?

3. Do you understand what the swirls actually are? I don't ask this to be a smart-****, I'm just trying to guage the level of my response.

4. Are you comfortable doing this by hand? It may require SEVERAL applications and SEVERAL hours to take care of them.

5. Have you ever utilized a professional detailer in your area? Do you know of any? Do you trust someone to advise you on one?

Hmm, I think that's it for now. Be prepared, you're going to get a VERY winded response on swirl mark removal and prevention. It'll be a short-course.

RP

 

Yes, I have used an orbital before with good results.

Not really.

It is my understanding that swirl marks are actually minute cuts in the paint (right???)

I would rather do it by hand.

If it comes down to it, I do know of a detailer that I could turn to. But I would much rather do it myself.



RP - thanks for letting this post hand around in this forum for a while

 

Stay tuned... I'll have you a response shortly. Football is on right now... sorry.

RP

 

Alrighty... Settle in.

This post takes up TWO INDIVIDUAL POSTS as it was too long by over 3 thousand characters…

Like I mentioned in my first response, the swirls that you're seeing are probably caused by the improper use of a machine applied product somewhere either in the manufacturing of the lid or at the dealership. Either way, what you're seeing is caused by millions of tiny scratches in the paint.

A swirl mark is, just that; a scratch. You see them in a 'swirly pattern' because of light reflections and such.

The good news is that you can remove them pending the lid that you have has a modern paint finish and has been topped with a clear coat material. To date, I've yet to see a 'modern' lid not be topped with a 'modern' paint technology however; I'm sure they exist.

I'm going to assume that your paint is modern for the sake of this discussion. It's up to you to determine if you have a clear coat on the lid or if it's a single stage paint. The work that you do with my advice is your work. Not mine. Just as a disclaimer; I can't be held responsible for anyone's work but my own. Use my advice at your own risk. Now, that's out of the way.

Here's how I'd attack it BY HAND (since you mentioned that you wanted to do it by hand -- which will be considerably more difficult and time consuming).

1. Work out for three weeks prior to application... your arms are going to get very sore. LOL! JK! Seriously, step one would be to obtain the products and such that you're going to need to make this happen. For starters, I'd get a 6-pack of terry cloth wax applicators, a few decent microfiber towels, a clay kit of some sort, and a bottle of Meguiar's Swirl Mark Remover 2.0 (this product is commonly called #9). You'll be able to find all of the above at your local Pep Boys or Auto Zone. Also, your local Paint and Body Supply House should carry something that is equivalent in either the 3M line or Meguiar's.

#9 Swirl Remover 2.0



Quik Clay System




2. Prepare the surface. Wash and dry the paint with your favorite car wash solution properly mixed and use a 100% cotton terry (ultra-soft) or waffle-weave microfiber towel to dry. Now, feel the paint with your bare hand. Does it feel rough to the touch? Probably so. I've yet to see a factory finish that didn't need some type of preparation outside of swirl removal. This is where the clay kit that you purchased is going to be used. To use this product, mist the spray lubricant on to the lid. Follow with the clay. The clay should be moved back and forth within the area that you sprayed the lubricant. Work small sections at a time.

That rough feel that you've experienced is caused by surficial contamination. This can consist of tar, sap, industrial fallout, paint over spray, and about a billion other things. It's critical to remove these imperfections as you're going to be attempting to remove problems that may lie beneath the surficial stuff. In short, I don't want you to use those arms that you've worked out with over the past three weeks to grind in a tiny fleck of rail dust that becomes dislodged and introduce bigger and harder to solve problems.

THE KEY TO A KILLER SHINE THAT SNAPS HEADS IS SURFACE PREPARATION!

Remember that...

Follow the directions on the Clay kit to the 'T'. It's VERY easy to use. One golden rule with clay, if you drop it, it's trash. No exceptions. One grain of sand embedded in the clay and then drug across your paint can and will spell disaster. I commonly recommend cutting the clay bar into two equal pieces for just this reason. When you drop it (and you will one of these days -- I dropped two large bars last year), it's not as painful to trash it when you have a back up. Clay isn't cheap either.

3. Feel the paint again. Feel that glass-like feel now? That's how a modern finish should feel! Congrats, you've removed the surficial contamination. Obviously, we've yet to get to the swirls but, you've made your next task easier and safer.

If the paint still has some rough feel to it. Investigate it VERY closely. Get your nose down to the paint and look at what's causing it to feel rough. Can you fleck it off with a fingernail? If so, get busy... lol... just kidding. Use the clay a bit more. It should remove it. I've only run across a few instances while detailing where I couldn't get the clay to remove what was on the surface. If this occurs, it's not the end of the world, just let me know and we can kick up the aggressive nature three notches.

3. Oh yeah, we've already done this one...

4. Time to get busy with the swirls. I might recommend washing the lid area that you've clayed again to remove any residue that may be left behind. This isn't a critical washing but, it's probably safe to do it. Pay VERY special attention to your drying technique. LET THE TOWEL DO THE WORK. Don't press down and make sure you're keeping your towels off of the ground. Remember, just about anything can introduce scratching to your paint. Just think what a towel is doing while it's on the ground or, even worse, on the concrete. KEEP YOUR MATERIALS CLEAN AND STORE THEM WELL (a free tip there).

5. Swirl mark removal. I know I said we'd start in #4 but, well, I forgot to lecture about keeping your materials clean...

Take your terry applicators and the #9 swirl remover that you've purchased. Apply a nickle sized portion of #9 onto the applicator. Take the applicator and work a very small area. This isn't wax! This is an abrasive polish that will remove some of the clear coating on the lid so that you're able to remove the scratches. This is safe in the method that you're applying and there's no need to worry about going through the clear coat. This product isn't nearly aggressive to achieve that and will break down long before you can get to that point because it contains diminishing abrasives.

Now I used a term in that last paragraph that may be confusing; work. When I say 'work' the product, I mean to continually rub it in the same immediate area. Like I said, this isn't a wax and thus, you don't just apply it and wipe it off. You're achieving mechanical abrasion to remove the swirls. Again, don't worry; with #9, you're using a VERY safe product.

Personally, I don't like to let this product haze but, I like to work it until it is almost dry. I stress the word ALMOST. Do not ever work any product while it's dry. This can and will reintroduce swirling.

So, wipe it off. Examine your work. See any difference? You should if you worked the product correctly and for the right duration. It's okay to use a little bit of downward force while doing this but, I don't want you to strain. I don't say that to be a smart-**** again but, more so that you're protecting your paint. Nothing about this application should cause you to strain.

If you still have some swirls, and you probably will after one application, repeat. Repeat. And repeat again. This product is mildly abrasive and, not knowing what variety of swirls that you have on your lid, I don't want to recommend anything that's more aggressive. In short, it just might take a few tries to get it right.

6. Once you've removed all of the blemishes, get a couple coats of your favorite wax on your lid. Many of us like Meguiar's products like NEW NXT Generation Tech Wax Paste (also available in liquid form) or Meguiar's Cleaner/Wax or Medallion Premium Paint Protection but, I want you to use what you're comfortable with and what you trust. The key is to use it and use it often.


NOW, we've removed the gunk on the surface with the clay and have, hopefully, removed all of your swirls. Let's talk about how to prevent them now.

Swirls, as we mentioned earlier, are just microscopic scratches in the paint. We need to do anything that we can to prevent reintroduction of these scratches to the paint.

CONTINUED IN NEXT POST

 

Here are a few helpful hints to keep the truck swirl-less...

1. No auto washes; especially the ones with brushes. These spell absolute disaster. I don't mind the touch-less ones so much in the winter but, be aware, the chemicals used there WILL strip your wax. No exceptions. And the 'hot wax' that you spring for at the end is useless. Save your money.

2. Pay attention to your hand washings. Use clean buckets, clean wash mitts, clean everything. Don't toss your materials on the ground where they can pick up grit and sand. Further, change your wash-water a few times while you're washing a very dirty vehicle. It's cheap to do this and can save you oodles of headaches.

3. Use the two-bucket method. I use this exclusively on any vehicle I detail. This entails filling one bucket up with your choice of wash solutions properly diluted and another bucket with fresh water. The idea is to capture the 'goop' that you wash off of the vehicle in the fresh water so that it's not introduced to your soap bucket. I have changed the water in my rinse - fresh water bucket as many as 10 times while washing my truck. Even more recently, I changed the water 8 times while washing a Honda Civic -- yes, it was THAT dirty.

4. Pay attention to your mitts and sponges. Don't use the same sponge that you just washed your wheel well with on the paint. Reserve some of your older mitts for this task and segregate them from the wash water. Under no circumstances should this sponge and the one that you just used to wash your hood come in contact with each other. Think about the grit and sand that you pick up with your sponge or mitt. Make sure to get it off your mitt.

5. Technique, technique, technique. Some of us have black or other dark colored vehicles. As we all know, these are some of the prettiest cleaned up but, also the worst looking when they're swirled to hell and back. Let the sponge or mitt do the washing. You shouldn't have to 'scrub' any thing. Start at the top of the vehicle and work downwards.

6. Use common sense. If you feel like it'd benefit you to run by the 'wand-wash' and use the high-pressure water to remove some of your gunk, do it. It's cheap and works VERY well. Don't hesitate to dump buckets. Car wash shampoo and water are cheap. The time you spend to remove the swirls, probably, isn't. If it's muddy, spray it all off first. Pay special attention around your wheel wells. This is where the majority of the gunk is probably located. Also your front grille/bumper. The car in front of you on a wet day is peppering you with grit and sand. Some of it will stay there.

7. Don't cut corners.

8. Don't cut corners.

9. Don't cut corners.

10. Drying techniques. Anything that rubs across your paint can scratch it. If possible, use a leaf blower or something similar to blow your paint dry. I know it sounds stupid but, my neighbors have become immune to my activities at this point in time (it took about 2 years to achieve this though -- you'll still get weird looks). If the air option isn't an option, utilize the softest, highest-pile 100% cotton terry towels available. Even better, use a nice microfiber waffle-weave drying towel (like this - Water Magnet Drying Towel or this one.

Let the towel do the work. No downward pressure is necessary!! Again, pay very close attention to where your towels go. If they get into a wheel well, assume that they're covered in gunk and that they shouldn't go across your hood.


I could go on and on and on and on (more so than I already have) but, I think you get the picture. I hope that this has helped you (and a bunch of other folks) a bit. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask. I do this as a side profession and moderate another prominent auto detailing message board for Meguiar's Wax Company based out of Irvine, California. If I don't have the answer, I'm pretty sure that, with the depth of resources that I have available, I can find it. I'm not tooting my own horn here, just trying to extend a hand if you need it.

Even better... screw all of my directions and swing by on a weekend. I'll remove them cheap. Pre-warning though, I'm going to use the same techniques that I've spelled out for you... and a rotary.

Let me know if you need anything else!

RP

 

I'm going to copy this one up to GENERAL CARE AND DETAILING as well...

While the data is long and, somewhat, tiring, maybe some other folks can contribute to it and help it be a better post.

RP

 

Great posts RP........... not much one can add to that!

 

Thanks Boss!

 

Rp very detailed, you could make alot of cash here in Ca with the detail and care you put into your work.