I've done a lot of searching on this sight and many others trying to find a better way to remove rust stains out of my white paint. I've done the clay bar once. I'll never do it again to remove fallout. It took me over 8 hours to get the whole truck clean; 16 hours to have completely cleaned and waxed.

This is what I did in 1/3 the time and it seems to be more effective, but I don't know how harmful it is to the paint:

I went to West Marine and purchased their rust stain remover. It is a solution of oxalic acid. It says on the bottle that it is safe for painted surfaces. This stuff worked a miracle!!! My truck looks like new! 98% of the stains are history and my truck was really starting to look rough. (a little more time and some elbow grease and I could have achieved perfection, but this is not a show truck).

I think the solution is similar to the Ford fallout/wash, but cheaper and easier to get. I followed the procedure that Ford recommends in the TSB for raildust removal.

If anyone else is interested I can post more details. It worked incredibly well and is SOOOOO much easier than the clay bar. The added benefit is that fallout cleaners claim to work better than clay bars bc they do a better job of neutralizing the iron particles causing the rust in the 1st place.

I must stress that if you do attempt this, use good judgement and take the necessary precautions. This is an acid. YOU MUST WEAR GLOVES!!! and wear eye protection!! Be careful to only spray upwind and have ample ventilation.

 

Fallout Acid is actually a pretty popular thing to use for fallout removal.

BAF/PRO makes the system I use. It's a two step process. One is the fallout acid and the other is the neutralizing step. This system uses Oxalic acid.

Another system I hear a lot about is the Automotive International ABC system. It is a three step system. You have an acid, an alkaline step to neutralize the acid, and then a third wash step. I have several sample bottles of the stuff to try out. I'm just waiting on a nice vehicle to come around to try it on.

The big thing that all these companies have brought up when I've spoken with them is about neutralizing the acid completely. It is an acid you're using on the paint and paint is porus and will absorb it. Guess it's just something you have to risk if you have serious raildust.

For me it's never gotten the paint as smooth and slick as clay. I only use the stuff if I see rust spots in the paint.

 

That was my concern w/ the rust remover. I used a heavily concentrated banking soda solution to wipe the area I treated after I had rinsed it 1st. I let the baking soda solution sit for 30 seconds or more before I hosed it off. The cleaner from West Marine says nothing about neutralizing other than rinsing the affected area w/ water thuroughly. I'm sure the added step of the baking soda is good insurance.

 

Clay is harder but the results are awesome. No acid for me....just elbow grease

 

Maybe I just don't understand here.
I have clayed four vehicles, one of them twice. I don't see the hard work?
Compared to putting acid on the car, spilling it on the tires, down the air vents, in the window seals? Gloves? Using baking soda, worry about disposing of the acid?
Forget and rub sweat out of your eyes, and you will be pretty unhappy.

Acid of any type is death on concrete, so I assume you are working on asphalt, or over dirt? Surly you wouldn't do that over a lawn?

Or are the dangers being kinda exaggerated? I have used muriatic (Sp?) acid to clean cars that had been coated with cement dust. That's about the only way to clean it off, and it was a major chore.
Nothing like having fun claying a truck.

Maybe it's just coming across hard in this thread, but it sure doesn't sound easier than claying.
Chris

 

Claying is not that hard to get the paint smooth, but to get out rust stains is another story. It took me dramatically less time and a lot less effort to use the acid.

I thought the same as you when I 1st saw the TSB on fall-out removal. There ain't no friggin' way I was going to toy w/ acid and hope that I do everything right. Turns out after doing a little research that it isn't that bad. I will caution that if you have a hard time reading and following directions, then you might not want to use this stuff, but if you use good judgement and have a good system set up, it beats the he!! out of claying!!

The acid from West Marine is diluted, but it can still do damage if you soak something in it and leave it that way for hours. As for the concreate, spray it down before you start the area you are about to work over. No worries then!

If claying is easy for you and you don't mind doing it, then stick w/ it. If you are like me and you don't want to spend an entire weekend claying TOUGH rust stains, acid wash is the way to go.

 

You're right that clay isn't hard and most of the time it will get the Ferrous Oxide particles out as well as a lot of other contamination. But when the particles start to rust, then clay usually will not get it. As mentioned before, paint is porus so the rust stain can spread. (This also what presents a problem with acid rain as it can absorb into your paint and everytime it becomes wet, it goes to work again.)

The acid is extremely diluted and a lot more diluted than any of the wheel acids (hydrochloric acid mostly) out there, which I don't recommend in the first place because of the dangers to your person like you mentioned. But these acids mixes aren't as bad. You still need to wear rubber gloves when working with it though. But the ones I've mentioned have been designed to be used on vehicles and shouldn't damage them. I've used the BAF/PRO one before with no problem and another local detailer here uses the ABC system with no problem that he's encountered.

I've heard the ABC system recommended for concrete removal but never tried it. When one of our vehicles got concrete on in, we just repainted as concrete can etch paint. I believe the ABC system uses hydrochloric acid for the acid step. Muriatic acid is just another name for hydrochloric acid. More diluted. The BAF/PRO system uses Oxalic acid I believe. Have to take a look at the MSDS sheets to check but I have them out in the carport right now.

I wouldn't say the acids aren't 100% safe to use but you can easily protect yourself.

 

The muriatic acid was bought under the name muriatic acid, and if you say it's weak hydrochloric acid, I will believe you.

I bought it in a bottle, years ago when I was fixing up a couple of vehicles that had been parked downwind of two cement plants.
Everything downwind is coated with cement. Gray rocks, gray buildings, gray cars. You park a car for six months down wind and it becomes gray, and the stuff does not come off, without acid. Leave it five years and the truck looks like a big gray boulder, complete with gray tires.

The acid removes the 'rock' covering, but is unpleasant to work with.
After the crud is removed, the paint is still 'alive' but rubbing compound is indicated.

Rust removal is an area that is unknown to me. That now makes make sense out of the postings.
I wouldn't think rust stains would be easy to remove with clay, so the acid treatment sounds very reasonable.

We have no rust problems here.
Cars parked in the back yard for 80 years still have no rust.
And the only salt we deal with is on the rim around our Margarita glass.
Chris

 

lol, Kind of like to see a grey vehicle. I remember my neighbor did a bunch of concrete work and left a light dust on my truck. I was washing my truck daily that week. The concrete on our vehicles was a splatter though. The crud layer like you're talking about sounds like an Acid bath would work easily.

 

Next time I'm in Oro Grande I will snap a picture.

Not too many cars left like that, but a few.

I have to say that a few years ago the two plants 'cleaned' up their act. Which caused one to close, so it was a bit expensive.
So there is a lot less that was common a few years ago.
Chris

 

Sounds like a certain concrete plant is exceeding its PM requirements on an air permit.

 

Where can I get this clay bar stuff that you fellas are talking about to use on my white truck?

 

Check your local Napa, Pep Boys, or Autozone.

Clay Magic or Mother's Clay Kit or Meguiar's Quik Clay kit.

They're all about the same price and about the same quality.

RP

 

Just found today ford has a TSB on this problem

TSB 04-9-6

http://members.***.net/deltascrew/04-9-6.pdf

 

They've had that out for awhile. Autoint.com has had it on their webpage as they've helped develope the procedure.

BTW, where did you get the TSB? Every place online wants to charge you for them. Any place to get em free?