Rock Pick,
As I am VERY picky about keeping my truck clean, I detail it often and have detailed many cars too. I have read and learned many things from your threads but wanted to get your direct input for my situation. I've just purchased an 05 Black on black SuperCrew lariat 4x4. The day I bought it I noticed "sap" on the paint but chose not to tell the dealership as I know their "detail guy" would have swirled the hell out of it getting the sap off. My question is, If this were YOUR truck, what would processes would you perform to make the paint slick and swirl free? Also, I clay barred the hood only and it left behind some scratches, After I clay barred it I hit it w some Dual Action and then polish, but to no avail....Should I have used diamond cut, then Dual Action??????? I would like to know that I dont even have to "high speed" the paint, just clay bar it and wax it, is this possible, was the clay bar I was using too abrasive??
thanks for your time as I know it will be intelligent and helpful!
M.Reeves

 

Sap is acidic, and if left on for any time period, it will leave permanent marks

 

Hi SL:

It sounds like you have several issues that you'd like to deal with... let's go one by one.

Sap. Like Navi mentioned, it can be a problem if allowed to stay there very long. There are oodles of ways to do it but, if it were mine, I'd probably take a very slow and painstaking process to remove the problem.

Is the sap on your vehicle 'sticky' and 'gooey' or is it the of the variety that hits, hardens, and then concretes on?

If gooey, get a cup of ice, your clay bar (a new one), and some patience. Use the ice on the sap spots to 'harden' them. Once hardened, immediately spray your clay lube on the affected area and make a couple of VERY light passes with your clay. This should remove it...

If it's the 'concrete' variety, the same technique should work but, you may or may not have to 'ice' it to further harden it.

Now, you mention that you introduced some scratches from the clay. While this isn't totally uncommon, I have a hunch that technique could've potentially helped prevent some of these problems. With that in mind, let's talk just a little bit about clay procedures and techniques.

First, you're using 'abrasive cleaning' when you're claying. Think of clay as an eraser that is there to remove bonded and 'stuck-on' contamination that regular washing cannot remove. In my opinion, clay is one of the more important things to do when detailing a vehicle as it's one of the 'surface prep' steps that are critical to obtaining a deep, wet, swirl-free, and show-car look. You can never go overboard on surface prep... anyone can wax a vehicle...

To clay, I start with an area of around 2' x 2' or 3' x 3'. I'll spray adequate amounts of clay lube (typically a Meguiar's #00 mix or QD spray of some variety). Don't skimp on the lubrication. You're not going to 'over do it' in my opinion. Take your well-kneaded clay bar and work in a back and forth movement with very little downward pressure. Let the clay do the work. Claying shouldn't involve much more pressure than is needed to hold the clay against the paint and move it side to side. In short, if you're 'pressing down' on the clay on to the paint, then you're asking for problems.

Work that 2x2 or 3x3 area over pretty well with that light downward pressure motion and then follow with a really nice MF towel (I really like premiumautocare.com 's big blue MF for this task) and remove the remaining QD, again, with a very light downward pressure blotting motion. Assess your finish. It should feel like a clean piece of glass... very smooth. If needed, go again with the light downward pressure motion of claying after reapplication of lube.

Move to the next section. Knead your clay. Knead your clay.

Sidenote: If you drop your clay, it's trash. No exceptions. I know it's painful to toss a $20 clay bar (been there, done that) but, you must understand that when the clay hits the ground, you run a HUGE risk of picking up a few grains of sand or other grit. Those grains of sand can spell DISASTER for a painted finish... For this reason, I recommend chopping your clay bar into a couple of smaller pieces. You will drop one eventually and it's nice to have a back up on hand. Just a tip.

Now that we've talked a bit about claying, let's address your minor scuffs that you've introduced due to the claying process.

I'm not sure which direction to go with this as I haven't seen your blemishes but, I can tell you that you *DO NOT* want to go down the diamond-cut (#85) road unless you've really screwed the pooch on your paint. My hunch is that you didn't use the product that you purchased (DACP) correctly or that it wasn't the 'man for the job'. Diamond-Cut Compound is just about as abrasive as they come and thus, I really don't think that's the road that will be needed. Further, #84/#85 require a rotary (not a dual-action polisher (aka: PC)-- a rotary buffer); no exceptions. You can't generate the heat and friction necessary to break down the abrasives in these products by hand or by DA.

Can you post some photos of your scuffs so that everyone (not just me) can take a look so that we may make a little better call?

I have a hunch that a product like #80 or something similar along the PB's line of polishes might be able to address your problem, remove it, and get you back to par.

I hope that helps a bit. I'll be checking this one frequently to see if you can snare some pics of your problem. I'm sure we'll be able to get through it but, it's time to buy an extra helping of patience... nothing's quick when it comes to detailing typically.

RP

 

I have found that on the worst of the sap, the concrete type, you can use a plastic razor blade to chip off hte bulk of it, not all the way to the paint mind you, and then clay the crap out of the rest of it. Claying is an art, and like all other forms of art, it takes practice to get the mechanics of it down. When I first started in the business, I thought claying was a waste of time. Then I attended several classes to learn everything abot anything that has to do with detailing. Now I can do things I never thought possible to paint jobs. And when you ask, what could never be possible, just think of something like a drunk trying to pull his f series into a parking lot thats 1 inch lower than his truck is tall.

 

I concur on the plastic razor blades but, I was a bit reluctant to recommend those as I haven't seen the problem... clay, being the safer recommendation, was the route I decided to go...

But, again, I agree that the plastic razor blades would be an asset on this one... no doubt there. Especially depending on how expansive the problem may be.

RP

 

I have to disagree with the comment about Diamond Cut.

With a rotary, sure it can be lethal but with a DA its probably THE most effective abrasive for getting out medium imperfections such as brush scratches, plus is perfect for getting rid of the haze after wet-sanding out filled-in paint chips.

I have used Diamond Cut numerous times on numerous vehicles for both these purposes and found it very effective and safe to use with a DA.

DACP on the other hand is best left as a 'paint cleaner/polish (as the name suggests) and not expect it to get out even minor swirls or scratches.

 

I sell diamond cut in my c-store. I have recommended it in 5 years to maybe 3 people. I have had people buy it and come back and cuss me for what htey did to their car.

I wouldn't use the diamond cut unless it was the worst of the worst. Its the last resort for full time detailers in most cases. I don't personally use Meguiars products on a day to day basis, but that little scale on the front of the bottle calls diamond cut a 10 on a scale of 10. Not for the faint at heart, although it would work well for after wet sanding.

And the DA, well, the DA is a good teaching tool, and good for light cuts with minor imperfections in small areas, but I have found it to be less than useless for big jobs. If a job requires that much attention, a rotary is all but necassary to complete the job

 

We all have our opinions and I fully respect yours.

My basis for explanation was based upon recommendations from the manufacturer and my personal experiences as well. Personally, I find that DACP is also a difficult product to use on a dark color with a PC but, again, that's my opinion.

I draw exception with the thought that DACP (#83) can't take care of minor problems; quite the contrary. I find it to be a hugely effective product; especially on tans or whites. I've had HUGE success with this product on multiple vehicles (including my own).

DACP/Diamond Cut/Swirl Remover or, heck, even something like a wax like #16 or #26 can be deadly with a rotary... a rotary is an equal opportunity thrasher if used incorrectly... but, in my opinion, even a DA can thrash paint when used in a 'boneheadish' fashion.

In short, in my opinion, Diamond Cut is 3000 grit in a bottle.

RP

 

Great info RP!

 

Why not try some GOO-GONE? I think it says on the bottle that it's safe on automotive paint. Don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure I've read it on the bottle. I've used it on auto paint before to remove tar, road grime, dried on coca~cola, etc. I'm not sure how it'll do on sap, but it's worth a try at least.

 

Thanks man. I appreciate that.

 

Hey Guys,

I'm wondering what something on my paint might be or if I was possibly just looking at very thin paint. I know it's hard to assess without pictures but it's very hard to take a picture of. I'll try again this weekend to get a picture of it.

I was washing the truck yesterday and noticed in direct sunlight (can't see it in shade or when the sun is directly shining on the paint) that on the front part of the hood and the drivers side in the botton indention part of the body panel; that I have this spotting that is very dense in terms on closeness of the spots and the spots appear orangeish. They won't come off by washing. My question #1: is it what is known as fallout, tree sap, or am I just looking at the paint in direct sunlight and seeing through the coat of paint (newer vehicles seem to have very thin layers of paint).

Side note: On Wednesday I orders a PC, Meg #26, #80, NXT Wax, 2 polishing pads, 1 finishing pad, QD, clay bar, and 3 microfiber towels. I'm going to head out to the parents house and practice on their van before I hit the truck with this.

Question #2: When using clay, is it lightly dragged along the surface that you sprayed the QD or is it a lightly push down and pull up then move to next spot thing.

Thanks again,

Duke

 

It is hard w/o pics. My naviagtors side view mirrors, and fender mouldings have begun to "sun burn" or fade, and the only thing that isn't fading is the metallic. SO they are like almost pink on a red truck. SUX

 

First problem... hard to tell you anything without pics. Not sure what to tell you on that one. I've seen thin paint but, you're right, it's going to be tough to photograph if that's the culprit... especially under the clear.

#2... not sure what you're asking here. It's perfectly acceptable to pick the clay up off of your finish, reapply more QD and continue claying (after kneading it out of course). That what you were asking?

RP

 

It's been a rainy mess this weekend, so pics will have to wait till the week days.

I was refering to how you clay. Do you drag the clay across the area that you sprayed QD, or do you do more of a "blot" type method. It's like you told me with drying, do you wipe, or do you "blot"?