You guys think the clearcoat is impenetrable? Its all about molecule size and heat. I think the sun could easily heat my clearcoat and wax to the point it could seap through.

I don't know for sure and I am no expert but I have had better protection that last longer using a polish and sealant over a natural wax. Plain and simple carnuaba is a wax and will melt in the sun and either dry out or get beneathe your clearcoat. I'm not going to bash anything you might use on your vehicles but a simple statement that carnuaba is a wax tells me not to expect any long term protection just a nice temporary shine.

Again this does not apply to synthetics.

 

simple chemistry here .. if it will go through the clear coat, it will go through the base coat also .. the major difference between the two is the pigmentation ..

there is a difference in durablity when comparing synthetic sealants and carnuba based waxes .. no one here is denying that .. but you are way off base when thinking that the carnuba will get between the clearcoat and the base coat .. if there are no issues with the clear .. that will not happen ..


and a question to you .. following your theory .. what happens when you top a synthetic sealant with a carnuba .. as the majority of guys on this site do? does the carnuba get under everything then, or does the sealant prevent that ?

.

 

Like I said I claim to be no expert... I don't have all the answers.
I don't even know if it sinks into your clearcoat or if the yellowing/haze is on top of it.

I plan on listening to my paint guy though cause I think he knows his ****.

So much for my original question of Glare experience...

I ask you this, if wax has never done this then why would some even advertise that their product won't do it?????
http://www.detailwerkz.com/125detail.html says:
Z2 will not streak, yellow, smear, film or leave a haze even on black, in any situation. Leaves no powder or white residue in cracks, is non-greasy, non-oily, anti-static, will not attract dust or dirt and can be applied to the entire vehicle in the sun or shade.

I think the above is even for a synthetic polish. Obviously, I am not the first to hear of wax doing this. However, I have heard people say it is only noticeable on dark colored paint also. So, does this happen? I don't know, your guess is as good as mine as I have not experienced it first hand.

 

I can't believe anyone that paints vehicles would ever tell anyone that wax can penetrate clear coat paint! That has to be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read!

I think most posters here are trying to give the benefit of the doubt here, but, please. If you believe that any natural wax is ever going to penetrate any paint, you are WRONG! It will not ever happen.

Natural wax, Carnauba or otherwise, can yellow, or leave a haze ON the paint, but it CANNOT penetrate the paint. The same can also be said for some of the synthetic 'wax' products.

I can't believe anyone that knows anything about paint would ever say anything so ludicrous.

But, that is just my opinion. Believe who you want.

 

Sorry about the penetrating the clearcoat talk. Maybe I am wrong about that part but I have heard of things getting below your clearcoat. Bird poop that is acidic can easily sink into your clearcoat as I had that happen on my car. Especially if they have eaten mullberries. I couldn't get the stains out no matter what I used or how many times I buffed it.

More talk of it.. Obviously happens more to fiberglass.
http://www.waxforum.com/showthread.php?t=1443

http://www.properautocare.com/propwaxtip.html says:
Detailers that prepare show cars will often layer a carnauba wax on top of a synthetic wax. The synthetic wax acts as a gloss layer while the carnauba wax adds depth and liquidity. One combination that works very well is an initial coating of Klasse All-In-One followed by one or more coats of Pinnacle Paste Glaz or Souveran wax. The Pinnacle waxes are super-pure carnauba waxes that can be layered without any yellowing effects.

http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=2282 says:
Carnauba based waxes are popular, but they have a tendency of yellowing the paint over time. I will be using Clay Bars once a year, and following that up with some DriWash -n- Guard. Great stuff.

Some people experience it some don't. Maybe it is the quality of the carnauba wax you use. Most paint fanatics use wax on top of their sealant to get a glossy shine but they never put it straight on there paint.
Oh and for those that have dark vehicles you shoould try the DriWash N Guard. I have used it many times and it is quick and easy and makes dark color pop. It was originally developed for limosine companies that needed a way to quickly polish their black cars in the sun.
http://www.waterless-wash.com/about.htm

 

I'll put in some input, but realize that it's only my opinons combined with a few facts;

Typically, the best waxes are made from blends predominately comprised of YELLOW carnauba wax. (FACT). Perhaps, the yellowing comes from it baking in the sun after a LONG period of time. (OPINION).

If Z2 claims everything you do, sounds a bit gimmicky to me. Granted, many of us have said stuff that sounded gimmicky and ended up being true... perhaps it's all a hoax, perhaps it's liquid gold (metaphorically speaking).

Personally, I tend to believe that the wax remains on top of the clearcoat. As for the bird droppings, those ETCHED AND STAINED. The acids didn't seep into the clear--they eroded it.

As for Pinnacle's claim as to the non-yellowing, it's most likely to attract thise of you who DO believe it/experience it. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that I have never seen it. But for the lower end companies, all marketing hype. (Lower end does NOT include Pinncle)

Sorry, I haven't tried Glare products, so I can't help with the original question. Good luck.

 

I have never heard of wax yellowing the pain, but I have heard of contaminated wax. If I ever needed to remove the wax from my truck, I would use Mothers clay bar. It was made for removing wax. I used the clay bar on my truck and it had an amazing affect.

 

nothing will soak into the clear....

 

They put the carnaruba wax on top because it adds depth to dark colors, not because their worried about the wax doing any harm to the paint.

 

To speak to your acidic bird poo comment...

The reason that folks experience problems with this is, like you said, due to the acidity. It ETCHES, not sinks. There is a difference and, again, it's due to the acidic nature of the poo (you'll note, not all poo etches -- different acidities -- make sense?). You'll often notice that poo that etches clear also may be 'purple' in color - indicating that the bird in question has probably been eating some berries of some sort -- berries, in many cases, are VERY acidic.

See the connection?

Using your rationale, about wax 'sinking' into the paint, synthetics would be much worse due to molecule size as well as their 'bonding' effect. It doesn't add up, bud. It's that simple.

I'm done with this thread... again, the moon may be made of cheese but, I'll draw my own judgment as a free-thinker. --- a free-thinker that is obviously 'thinking' differently than both you and your painter.

BTW, I got word the other day that the earth was round! Those imbeciles will soon learn that it's not when they sail off of the edge in search of the riches of the western world!

 

This is simple science really, and carnauba is definitely not a long-term solution.

I will agree, acrylic, water based paint is microscopically porous.

However, the viscosity of wax (any wax) is too thick to penetrate into the microscopic pores of paint. It merely forms a wax layer on top of the paint.

Thinning it down to induce penetration into the paint is not effective either, because by thinning it down, the bonding qualities of wax is compromised and it becomes far less effective = contaminated.

I think your paint friend may have been taking some aspects of what he has learned out of context. And really, painting cars for a living, does not automatically qualify as an expert on molecular science. JMO

 

I seriously doubt that thousands upon thousands of show car and collector car enthusiests are wrong on this one. Carnuba may no longer be the gold glass standard for protection, especially over entended periods. Synthectics and polymer sealants hold that distinction. For depth and luster however, carnuba has no equal. Even when synthetics or sealants are used you will usually find that serious enthusiests will apply a top coat of Carnuba to knock off some of the "glitz" and provide luster and depth. Carnuba will soften in high ambient temps. but it flashes off into the atmoshere, it doesn't melt and penetrate though the clear coat. Sounds to me like your paint guy is trying to sell 300 dollar sealant jobs. IMHO

 

I would have to believe that if a wax penetrated the clearcoat, that there would be problems with the clearcoat seperating from the paint, or deteriating shortly thereafter. Also, I don't rely on carnuba as a protectant, I use it to give my black paint DEPTH after using synthetic, which I DO rely on to protect the paint.....

Okay now, are you saying that the moon IS, or ISN'T made of swiss cheese? Nuts-I thought I had that all worked out in my mind....

 

OK, I think we are all done with this one.

Valuabe Lessons Learned:
1) The Earth is round. (thats good to know)
2) The moon may or may not be made of swiss cheese.

Oh, last but not least, the clearcoat is an almighty impenetrable shield. Maybe I'm exagerating a little here. I learned wax cannot get into or beyond your clearcoat but is very subceptive to anything that is slightly acidic like the wonderful droppings of a bird.

Thanks for all the info and sorry if I came off sounding like a retard. Just glad we can talk on this board without it turning into a flame war.

 

It's not Swiss! Geesh. That's such a common misconception. It's GOUDA!