QD Lessons Learned, Long Post, Rant.
#16
05-21-2008, 09:46 PM
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I would not consider PB S&W a real waterless wash. As you have noted it does work great with lots of dirt. It does however work great with light dusting and can work great with mild dirt but i certainly would never use it in place of a good washing.
I love PB S&G after having done the S&W or my go to QD Chemical Guys Pink.
I have not tried PB QD+ as of yet.
I know for me if I even remotely think the QD will not work then it is time for a bath.
If i cannot first use my CA Duster then it is most likley time for a bath. Just like BOSS pointed out. At least for me anyway.
I love PB S&G after having done the S&W or my go to QD Chemical Guys Pink.
I have not tried PB QD+ as of yet.
I know for me if I even remotely think the QD will not work then it is time for a bath.
If i cannot first use my CA Duster then it is most likley time for a bath. Just like BOSS pointed out. At least for me anyway.
#17
05-21-2008, 10:27 PM
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I understand completely! The fact that you notice the marring puts you a step ahead of a lot of folks.
In case you are interested, here are two process that work for me... (still not perfect results, but much better)
For extremely light dust, I use my ONR diluted to QD strength (6 to 8 ounces to a gallon of distilled water). I also use about 3 large, soft WW towels per vehicle (two to lift the dust/dirt, and one to dry).
I spray a panel liberally with the ONR... more liberally than normally recommended. Then, I very, very gently wipe the panel with one WW towel. I try and "lift" the dust/dirt rather than wiping the panel.
Then, I very lightly mist on a bit more ONR and use another clean WW towel to gently wipe the area dry. Having a light mist of the ONR on the paint surface keeps it lubricated and picks up any remaining dust/dirt. Wiping dry paint with ANY dry towel is where the trouble starts. I think a lot of folks "over wipe" their QD's.
Then I repeat the process on another panel, but flip the "dirty" WW to a clean section before the "lifting" process. If the "drying" WW towel has dirt on the section used to dry, I filp that to a clean section too.
---------------------------------------------------------
For slightly dustier/dirtier paint, I prefer the ONR wash method. Although, I use two buckets... both with one ounce of ONR to two gallons of water. The second bucket is my rinse bucket. Having the ONR in the rinse bucket keeps from diluting the wash mix.
Then I use the same drying method as described in the first process. Instead of misting on a little more ONR, I will go over the panel again with the ONR wash solution.
Now, both of the processes take more time than the typical QD'ing, and of course, it still requires a good gloss enhancing QD for a little extra POP. However, those processes save me a lot of polishing time... not that I mind polishing, I just hate seeing a lot of swirls between polishing sessions. Plus that fact that I understand that paint can only take so much polishing.
Anyhow, you are probably using processes that are similar. I just thought I would mention them to see if something a little different might help.
In case you are interested, here are two process that work for me... (still not perfect results, but much better)
For extremely light dust, I use my ONR diluted to QD strength (6 to 8 ounces to a gallon of distilled water). I also use about 3 large, soft WW towels per vehicle (two to lift the dust/dirt, and one to dry).
I spray a panel liberally with the ONR... more liberally than normally recommended. Then, I very, very gently wipe the panel with one WW towel. I try and "lift" the dust/dirt rather than wiping the panel.
Then, I very lightly mist on a bit more ONR and use another clean WW towel to gently wipe the area dry. Having a light mist of the ONR on the paint surface keeps it lubricated and picks up any remaining dust/dirt. Wiping dry paint with ANY dry towel is where the trouble starts. I think a lot of folks "over wipe" their QD's.
Then I repeat the process on another panel, but flip the "dirty" WW to a clean section before the "lifting" process. If the "drying" WW towel has dirt on the section used to dry, I filp that to a clean section too.
---------------------------------------------------------
For slightly dustier/dirtier paint, I prefer the ONR wash method. Although, I use two buckets... both with one ounce of ONR to two gallons of water. The second bucket is my rinse bucket. Having the ONR in the rinse bucket keeps from diluting the wash mix.
Then I use the same drying method as described in the first process. Instead of misting on a little more ONR, I will go over the panel again with the ONR wash solution.
Now, both of the processes take more time than the typical QD'ing, and of course, it still requires a good gloss enhancing QD for a little extra POP. However, those processes save me a lot of polishing time... not that I mind polishing, I just hate seeing a lot of swirls between polishing sessions. Plus that fact that I understand that paint can only take so much polishing.
Anyhow, you are probably using processes that are similar. I just thought I would mention them to see if something a little different might help.
We QD very similar for light dust, I also use 2-4 MF's (16X24) per truck, but the one thing I don't do is what you mentioned, I don't "remist" the section and I do use really light pressure.
I also use the ONR 2 bucket method, but I never thought to put ONR i the rinse bucket but that makes too much sense, great tip.
Based on the ONR bottle it says to use 1-2 cap fulls per 2 gallons....how much of that would you put in a spray bottle? half a cap full or do you mix up a gallong and keep it? That is a good idea, I have some empty #34 gugs laying around I could use.
#18
05-21-2008, 11:52 PM
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So what does LSP marring look like?
This is what I consider LSP marring. It is different than Spider webbing b/c the marring vary's in direction and different than straight line marring/scratches. You also get what I consider holograming.
I could be way off here but this is what I battle. After I clay these marks are very minimal. After a quick polish they are 99.5% gone. Notice in the photo, sorry for the size but the marks make several different directions, but not a circle like most spider webbing. Based on the location of these marks, my learning here is MF pressure and its right at the point where I have a habit of changing direction. (Yes part of my OCD is that I do every section of truck the SAME way, every time, which can be helpful when trying to solve issues like this, albeit sad.)
This is what I consider LSP marring. It is different than Spider webbing b/c the marring vary's in direction and different than straight line marring/scratches. You also get what I consider holograming.
I could be way off here but this is what I battle. After I clay these marks are very minimal. After a quick polish they are 99.5% gone. Notice in the photo, sorry for the size but the marks make several different directions, but not a circle like most spider webbing. Based on the location of these marks, my learning here is MF pressure and its right at the point where I have a habit of changing direction. (Yes part of my OCD is that I do every section of truck the SAME way, every time, which can be helpful when trying to solve issues like this, albeit sad.)
Last edited by RollingRock; 05-21-2008 at 11:55 PM.
#19
05-22-2008, 12:07 AM
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#20
05-22-2008, 12:16 AM
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#21
05-22-2008, 12:18 AM
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#22
05-22-2008, 07:35 AM
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We QD very similar for light dust, I also use 2-4 MF's (16X24) per truck, but the one thing I don't do is what you mentioned, I don't "remist" the section and I do use really light pressure.
Based on the ONR bottle it says to use 1-2 cap fulls per 2 gallons....how much of that would you put in a spray bottle? half a cap full or do you mix up a gallong and keep it? That is a good idea, I have some empty #34 gugs laying around I could use.
Yep, I like to "remist" the section with just enough ONR to lubricate it as I'm making my final pass to wipe the section dry. It's really a very light mist, and it takes a while to get the knack of how much product to mist on. You want just enough to lubricate, without putting so much on that you need to do a lot of wiping.
According to the ONR instructions, you mix 6 to 8 ounces to a gallon of distilled water for the QD. That would be about 1 1/2 to 2 oz in a quart bottle, or 3/4 to 1 oz in a 16 oz bottle. I would go with 1 oz of ONR in the 16 oz bottle.
I keep a gallon on tap at all times.
HTH
#23
05-22-2008, 09:21 AM
#24
05-22-2008, 09:28 AM
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#25
05-22-2008, 09:30 AM
I don't remember what it was -- maybe he'll remember -- but, I emailed him about a product that I thought I had 'discovered'. Heck, it may have been Optimum or something... I honestly cannot remember (it's been a few years now).
He replied with something to the tune of, "yeah, been using that one for about 3 years now...I agree, it's great stuff!".
#26
05-22-2008, 09:53 AM
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So what does LSP marring look like?
This is what I consider LSP marring. It is different than Spider webbing b/c the marring vary's in direction and different than straight line marring/scratches. You also get what I consider holograming.
I could be way off here but this is what I battle. After I clay these marks are very minimal. After a quick polish they are 99.5% gone. Notice in the photo, sorry for the size but the marks make several different directions, but not a circle like most spider webbing. Based on the location of these marks, my learning here is MF pressure and its right at the point where I have a habit of changing direction. (Yes part of my OCD is that I do every section of truck the SAME way, every time, which can be helpful when trying to solve issues like this, albeit sad.)
This is what I consider LSP marring. It is different than Spider webbing b/c the marring vary's in direction and different than straight line marring/scratches. You also get what I consider holograming.
I could be way off here but this is what I battle. After I clay these marks are very minimal. After a quick polish they are 99.5% gone. Notice in the photo, sorry for the size but the marks make several different directions, but not a circle like most spider webbing. Based on the location of these marks, my learning here is MF pressure and its right at the point where I have a habit of changing direction. (Yes part of my OCD is that I do every section of truck the SAME way, every time, which can be helpful when trying to solve issues like this, albeit sad.)
RR, I know exactly what you mean. I get those a lot on the areas that I tend to "neglect." Such as the tailgate (sorry, I know those are your favorite,) and the roof.
If you find a solution (other than full detail,) please let me know.
#27
05-22-2008, 10:02 AM
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Nah... no Jedi here. I just happen to be fortunate enough to have a buddy that was in the detailing business for many, many years. Helping him taught me a lot (IMHO, he was the BEST), and it gave me inside access to a lot of information... and PRODUCTS.
It's nice to have all the great products we have today... and they do help. However, as you guys already know, it's still all about "process", correct tools, procedures and and as MP would say "passion".
I just happen to be fortunate enough to have a buddy that was in the detailing business for many, many years. Helping him taught me a lot (IMHO, he was the BEST), and it gave me inside access to a lot of information... and PRODUCTS. It's nice to have all the great products we have today... and they do help. However, as you guys already know, it's still all about "process", correct tools, procedures and and as MP would say "passion".
#28
05-22-2008, 10:12 AM
I'm not real up on detail, but I know how to take care of my stuff. Learning more and more here. I bought alot of high quality MFs atleast, so now im not washing & drying with cotton... always wondered why my old trucks paint was always swirled up when I did the spring detail..
Heres my old truck earlier this spring after washing it & drying, no detailing by any means.
ouch.... alot of swirl
I currently use Meguiars UQD, stepped up from the regular QD. Very pleased with the results I get.
And with this truck, no cotton will touch it, just MF & wool mits. Much happier with the Ford so I wont mess it up
Heres my old truck earlier this spring after washing it & drying, no detailing by any means.
ouch.... alot of swirl
I currently use Meguiars UQD, stepped up from the regular QD. Very pleased with the results I get.
And with this truck, no cotton will touch it, just MF & wool mits. Much happier with the Ford so I wont mess it up
#29
05-22-2008, 10:37 AM
Cotton is kind of given a bad rap now that MF towels are on the market. The truth is, one can use a nice high-pile 100% terry towel and use it just as successfully as you could a MF towel.
As is true with nearly every product on the market today -- there are varying levels of quality in everything. Remember, MF wasn't around and being used in the automotive care industry until just a few years ago. Lots of guys had spectacular finishes before MF!
But, that said, I totally understand where you're coming from as there is less of a learning curve with a MF towel and, generally speaking, a nice MF towel is better (IMO) than a nice terry towel.
As is true with nearly every product on the market today -- there are varying levels of quality in everything. Remember, MF wasn't around and being used in the automotive care industry until just a few years ago.
Lots of guys had spectacular finishes before MF! But, that said, I totally understand where you're coming from as there is less of a learning curve with a MF towel and, generally speaking, a nice MF towel is better (IMO) than a nice terry towel.
#30
05-22-2008, 11:41 AM
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