I am looking at the instruction manual for the 1715 Microtuner and I am a bit confused about the Shift Pressure custom settings. This is on page 6 of 20, Form 0129 08/18/2002.
It says that MAX is the stock vehicle program and MIN is the Superchip Performance setting.
I always thought that the chip / tuner increases pressure. Is it a misprint, communication failure or am I just a wienerhead?

Fritz

 

I just talked with a tech at Superchips and he couldn't really give me an answer. I would like to be able to use the tuner but w/ no line pressure. Line pressure kills the trannies on the HD and L w/ the supercharged 5.4.

 

Hi Fritz,

The average person that an end user can get on the phone at Superchips doesn't have exposure to detailed knowledge about this. The engineers & technicians actually making the product and the programs at Superchips of course *do* know, and know very well, but you're not going to reach any of *them* on the phone, they don't take calls from the public because if they did, they'd never get any work done.

The reality is that with the 1715 Micro Tuner, the amount of line pressure you get will vary in the supercharged 5.4's. In "regular" F-150's, Expeditions, etc., the way it works is the middle setting is what you will get with the standard Superchips program, like in the Superchip module with a standard performance program. Then you can raise or lower it from there.

Now with the supercharged 5.4's in the Lightnings & Harleys, that is *NOT* the case. What happens there is the MIN setting is the same as what you get with the standard Superchips tuning, and having personally driven *many* of those vehicles using the Micro Tuner, that is not in any way "harsh" or damaging to the transmission at all. But you can't *LOWER* it from there, the shift firmness is going to be what's in the traditional Superchip module. And the actual amount of that raw line pressure increase in any of the standard Superchips programs is actually very small, as that's not how we firm shifts by and large; that is done with more power and optimizing transitional delays & retards, along with a small increase in line pressure in correlation to the amount of throttle opening & load on the motor, as it should be. You don't need lots of electronic line pressure dialed in to make the tranny shift nicely.

However, and this is something I do not encourage anyone to do, if you raise it up from that MIN setting in a supercharged 5.4 (Harley or Lightning), then WOW, you can really make it bang the gears harder than I feel would be comfortable to most people (myself included).

The reality is that less than 1% of supercharged Harley or Lightning owners use the Micro Tuner, almost all of them use the 2-program Superchip Flip Chip, which is the best product to use on a supercharged 5.4 so you can get the custom tuning that most Lightning owners require. Among the supercharged 5'4 customers that have purchased Micro Tuners from us, we have had exactly *1* complaint of it shifting harder than they liked, and that was cured by going in and setting it to "MIN."

The best way to set up the supercharged 5.4 when using the Micro Tuner is to go into the custom menu and drop the shift firmness down to the "MIN" setting.

Now of course, the *only* supercharged 5.4 Harley & Lightning owners that have any business using the Micro Tuner are those that are either stock or only very lightly modified. No pulleys to raise boost, no breather caps, no long-tube headers, etc. You can use an intake kit (no "Ram Air," that leans out the motor badly), an electric fan kit and a cat-back exhaust. Anything more and they need to be getting a custom tune in the the 2-program Flip Chip.

Hope that info helps, & as always, please feel free to give us a call to go over this in more detail, Fritz.

Good to see you again, by the way!

 

Mike, it's funny you answered my questions but addressed them to Fritz?

Well here is complaint # 2. I for sure won't be using the 1715 tuner at all since the MIN setting is way to hard on the shifts. I'm not taking a chance of blowing the trans.

 

Hello Dave,

You're really going overboard on all this constant "blow the transmission" hype. Which is all that is by the way, pure hype, given the fact that has *never* happened from using the Micro Tuner.

The bottom line is, as always, each vehicle owner needs to do whatever they feel comfortable with, and if you don't want to use the Micro Tuner, then don't, nobody has a gun pointed at your head. It's quite clear from *every* one of your posts here since you started in the past few days that you obviously seem to hate the unit, so don't use it & get on with your life. Pretty simple.

If you'd like to go over any of your concerns in an intelligent manner without all the hyperbole, then by all means, please feel free to give us a call here at Performance, Dave, & I'll be more than happy to go over all of that with you in detail.

I wish you well,

 

Wow, long discussion about everything but my question.
Let me ask it a little simpler:
Which side on the Microtuner Shift Pressure Page gives firmer shifts - Min Left or Max Right?

Thanks

Fritz

 

Hi Fritz,

MIN is going to be lower, and MAX is going to be higher, on all vehicles. It works just as it appears on the LCD screen on the Micro Tuner, where MIN is the abbreviation for Minimum, while MAX is the abbreviation for Maximum.

Hope that helps, & have fun!

 

How high can the pressure be set with a stock 4R70W without risking damage?

I have read where the orifices in the stock valve body limit the amount of line pressure , but have not been able to find out exactly what is the highest setting with the MMT.

 

Hi RY,

There isn't a set maximum figure like you're asking for, there are far too many variables, such as configuration (vehicle weight), how it's used, how it's maintained, etc.

In general, I don't like to see them much more than about 2 to maybe 3 "notches" above centerline on the Micro Tuner in non-Lightning F-150's.

The stock valve body limits the amount of fluid *volume* flowing more than it limits the amount of line pressure, though of course it does affect both.

We don't like using extreme amounts of line pressure when somebody wants "hard" shifting, the safe way to do that is a combination of program and mechanical changes to the tranny, like a valve body or a shift kit. The program changes do different things than what the mechanical modifications to the transmission do.

For those that want tire-chirping upshifts, that is safely done with a combination of the Superchips tuning *and* either a shift kit or a valve body replacement. The cheapest way to do that for the 4R70W is to pick up the Transgo shift kit and use that on Level 1 or 2 so the transmission can flow enough fluid *volume*, along with the Superchips tuning to take care of all the program issues hurting the shifts, such as the power-robbing delays & retards, etc.

I don't like the idea of cranking up line pressure to extreme levels via program changes alone, and our basic guideline is, if you want the tranny to shift quick & hard enough to "chirp" the tires on the WOT 1-2 upshift, then use the Superchips tuning and the Transgo shift kit together.

 

Thanks, mike for your patient and staright-forward response. That is exactly the info I was looking for.

 

When i had my transmission rebuilt, the mechanic also reinstalled my Transgo shift kit, or so he said. Well, i plan on taking it back to him for warrantee work because the shift kit did nothing to my 2-3 shift. Now at WOT, i can sometimes get a chirp from the tires on the 1-2 shift, but other times, i cant even chirp my serpentine belt.

At WOT, does the transmission always shift exactly the same? Because with my transmission, is seems to shift rather inconsistently on the 1-2 shift.

Once i get my transmission shifting like it should on the 2-3 shift, with a micro tuner, should i be able to really get a solid chirp on the 1-2 shift and maybe 2-3?

Thanks for the help!

Rick

 

Pure hype, eh? So you mean to tell me that increasing the line pressure doesn't effect the transmission life at all on the SC 5.4 trucks?? OK.

Trust me....I'm not losing sleep over the tuner. I'm just trying to warn other truck owners to beware of the line pressure mod. I'm not trying to step on anyones toes neither....just passing info along to others. That's what these message boards are for.

 

Hi F150NASCAR04,

All of this is a matter of the quality of materials used (clutches, steels, bands, etc.) as well as the quality of the actual work that was done, and to a certain extent, how much power is being made. None of which can be seen or diagnosed from here. I'll give you some general comments, but without actually feeling how the tranny is shifting, I can really only guess & be very generalized..........................

In general, it takes a *lot* more fluid volume and line pressure to make a 2-3 upshift seem anywhere near as firm as the 1-2 upshift on the street, and this is perfectly natural. The faster that *any* vehicle goes, the more effort it takes to effect a firm, positive upshift, and with each successive upshift, it takes more and more of both to do the same. Which is why it's a mistake to ever expect a 2-3 or 3-4 shift to feel like a 1-2, it's basic physics: you have far less torque multiplication going on, the amount of torque multiplication drops precipitously with each successive upshift.

So don't expect the 2-3 to feel like the 1-2, it won't. It can be made to shift harder most likely, but it's never going to feel like the 1-2 does, due to the reduction in torque multiplication as it engages the next gear up.

And no, trannys don't always shift exactly the same even with a quality build. It should be pretty close under the same basic conditions, fresh clean fluid & the tranny up to normal operating temperature, and on the same pavement surface, sure, it should be close. However, there will be variances, the condition of the fluid has a HUGE effect on the actual shift feel, as does fluid temperature. Molecule shear is a significant issue in automatic transmission fluid, and just one burnout can smoke the fluid, without it smelling badly & appearing obviously burnt or it changing to a dark red color. And this is the single most often mistake we see, auto tranny owners not using active tranny coolers with a thermostatically controlled fan to keep the tranny fluid temperature under *positive* control under all operating conditions, and the long-term effects of this are significant. Just few events of stop & go traffic in the Summer can be enough to damage the fluid, and that in turn affects the shift feel & quality, due to changes in basic lubricity of the fluid & how that effects the clutches, etc.

It really sounds to me like you don't have a big problem, just guessing from afar. It sounds like it's just a matter of it not always chirping the tires on the 1-2, and that you want a firmer 2-3 WOT upshift. And your mechanic can probably take care of that for you, but remember, no matter what he does to the transmission, you still have to be making enough *power* to chirp those tires. You're going to have to be making some pretty serious power to chirp the 2-3 in that F-150 on clean dry pavement.

Good luck!

 

Hi David,

Thanks for your response.

>>>Pure hype, eh? So you mean to tell me that increasing the line pressure doesn't effect the transmission life at all on the SC 5.4 trucks?? OK.<<<

No, I don't think that would be an accurate statement either, I think that's too finite & extreme a statement. I'd be the first to agree that the reality is changes in line pressure (up or down) can indeed have the potential of affecting the service life of the friction materials, bands, clutches, steels, etc.

To answer that more directly, what we have seen as America's oldest Superchips WD in general is an *increase* in the service life of the friction materials as a result of the normal changes to automatic transmission calibration in the Superchip. This is due to the reduced slippage and decreased heat, & we've been seeing this for well over a decade, with numerous tranny teardowns among our & customer vehicles, usually to do a full race build & examining the stock parts that come out after having used the Superchips tuning.

I'd also be the first to say that trying to make a transmission shift "HARD" via electronically increased line pressure alone isn't good for the front pump long term. For example, at a 70K mile teardown, if excessively high line pressures are used (and I'm talking about 3-5 times the amount that we use at highest peak in our "standard" performance programs) long-term without any mechanical modification to the transmission (valve body, etc.) to make it capable of flowing more fluid *volume*, then you can see some excessive wear on the front pump. In that scenario, it's kinda like trying to drain a swimming pool thru a straw, that doesn't work well long-term.

I haven't seen any case of what you have complained about, the too-firm shift even on light throttle with the shift firmness set to the "MIN" setting in any Lightning or supercharged Harley. Actually, I wish you were close enough to us so I could feel just exactly what you're experiencing, as I could tell you instantly whether or not that was normal, or if that was the same thing we see. To date, I've not seen any of those vehicles have an unduly harsh shift at light throttle in the MIN setting. Now I *do* think that in the Lightning or supercharged Harley, if you have it set to the middle, that is too high, which is why we advise those owners to set it to MIN. It's just the difference in actual response between the various computer codes that makes the supercharged 5.4's have a harder shift at the same setting than what you will get in any "regular" Ford truck or SUV with the Micro Tuner.

I understand your concern, of course, we've just never once experienced what you're commenting about in this regard in any Lightning or supercharged Harley among our customers here at Performance, which is why I'd love to see your vehicle & experience what you're feeling. There hasn't been a single case of any transmission damage from the Micro Tuner to those trannys.

Overall, there aren't nearly as many Lightning or supercharged Harley owners using the Micro Tuner as there are "regular" F-150, Expedition, etc. owners using it, or as compared to the number of Lightning and supercharged Harley owners using custom programmed Superchips. Most of them are doing mods that require custom tuning, so they're generally using the 2-program Superchip Flip Chip with the exact custom tuning they need. We've got perhaps a couple hundred Lightning & supercharged Harley owners using the Micro Tuner among our customer base here at Performance, just to give you an idea, and only Lord knows how many total across the country between all the various smaller dealers, etc. And the only thing we've seen out of the ordinary is that it does shift firmer at the same setting as compared to a "regular" F-150 or Expedition, etc., so consequently we recommend using the MIN setting. Which in our experience, has given about the same characteristics as we see in the "standard" Superchip for those vehicles, which has not been unduly harsh anywhere for us or our customers, to date.

The Lightnings & Harleys have an additional issue beyond any increase in line pressure (and the amount we increase it by at absolute peak in our standard programs is much smaller than what most would assume), and that is, the removal of the invocation of the overheat mode to shut down 4 cylinders during a full-throttle upshift. We do indeed adjust that, and in teardown what we've found is that unless the vehicle has been drag raced frequently with racing slicks instead of regular street tires of any kind, that doesn't cause a significant increase in wear as long as tranny temps are kept under control. Now in one case, at a 40K mile teardown on a Lightning that had seen literally hundreds & hundreds of passes down the 1/4 mile with racing slicks used, *that* combination on a stock 4R100 can and usually will cause additional wear to the clutches, as the tires can no longer "chirp" (slightly spin) during the WOT 1-2 upshift anymore, so the clutches have to absorb it all. So if a customer is going to be drag racing on slicks, there are certain things we recommend they do, or to at least be aware of.

If you'd like to give us a call at your leisure, David, I'd be more than happy to spend some time to go over this with you in detail, we'll be happy to help in any way we can. I think we have the same basic concerns, we own, drive & modify these same vehicles just like most other people here, and of course we care about our own vehicles, just like we care about our customer's vehicles. We've just never had a situation like you've mentioned, either with our own Lightning or with any of our customer's Lightnings or supercharged Harleys with that unit.

Best of luck whatever you decide,

 

Wow! That last response displayed a level of patience that I have not yet attained. You rock, Mike!