And yet another question
#1
07-17-2003, 11:02 AM
And yet another question
It seems I have been asking a lot of questions of you lately but well, here's another.
There have been many posts on doing a Lightning Engine conversion and how expensive it is for the pre 99 trucks because of the differences in the computers. The conversion involves changing the entire computer, dash and wiring harness.
Now for my question.
Could I install a 5.4 Lightning engine in my truck and run it off the existing electronics with a custom chip. I ask this because there are some real bargains to be had now with complete Lightning long blocks.
I know from reading Neal's posts that 5.4L engines will bolt up to the 4R70W transmission so the bell housing should be the same. I also know I would have to get rid of the coil on plug and use my coils, plug wires and probably adapt the crank fire sensor (if it's different then the one in the Lightning engine). I also know this would require a custom chip for control of the timing, AF ratios ECT but you should already have all the information needed to make such a chip.
Can this be done??
Is it reasonable??
There have been many posts on doing a Lightning Engine conversion and how expensive it is for the pre 99 trucks because of the differences in the computers. The conversion involves changing the entire computer, dash and wiring harness.
Now for my question.
Could I install a 5.4 Lightning engine in my truck and run it off the existing electronics with a custom chip. I ask this because there are some real bargains to be had now with complete Lightning long blocks.
I know from reading Neal's posts that 5.4L engines will bolt up to the 4R70W transmission so the bell housing should be the same. I also know I would have to get rid of the coil on plug and use my coils, plug wires and probably adapt the crank fire sensor (if it's different then the one in the Lightning engine). I also know this would require a custom chip for control of the timing, AF ratios ECT but you should already have all the information needed to make such a chip.
Can this be done??
Is it reasonable??
Last edited by WLF; 07-17-2003 at 11:05 AM.
#2
07-17-2003, 02:17 PM
Former Sponsor
Hi WLF,
This is not a swap I would advise.
There is *far* too much work involved, and realistically, you aren't going to convert a COP motor over to non-COP ignition, etc.
The way to properly do a Lighting motor conversion is to use the engine, the Lightning-specific version of the 4R100-HD tranny, the Lightning's PCM, all sensors & complete Lightning wiring harness, etc. The 4R70W tranny will *not* stand up to the supercharged 5.4 motor, unless you have a full race build put on it.
A
And then there's the Stirling 9.75 rear end that should be used as well, the stock 8.8 isn't going to take it.
We have tuned a few guys trucks that have just dropped a Lightning long-block in there, and by bypassing a few systems, that can be made to work, but I don't advise it.
Unless you're going to do the whole package properly, I would not advise trying this as just a straight engine swap, as far too much else is needed to really have it work properly and reliably, without having to worry about hardware failures.
Getting a stock Lightning crate motor has always been a bargain, but it's not just a straight engine swap kinda deal.
Sorry, but I'd take another route.
This is not a swap I would advise.
There is *far* too much work involved, and realistically, you aren't going to convert a COP motor over to non-COP ignition, etc.
The way to properly do a Lighting motor conversion is to use the engine, the Lightning-specific version of the 4R100-HD tranny, the Lightning's PCM, all sensors & complete Lightning wiring harness, etc. The 4R70W tranny will *not* stand up to the supercharged 5.4 motor, unless you have a full race build put on it.
A
And then there's the Stirling 9.75 rear end that should be used as well, the stock 8.8 isn't going to take it.
We have tuned a few guys trucks that have just dropped a Lightning long-block in there, and by bypassing a few systems, that can be made to work, but I don't advise it.
Unless you're going to do the whole package properly, I would not advise trying this as just a straight engine swap, as far too much else is needed to really have it work properly and reliably, without having to worry about hardware failures.
Getting a stock Lightning crate motor has always been a bargain, but it's not just a straight engine swap kinda deal.
Sorry, but I'd take another route.
#3
07-17-2003, 04:34 PM
The reason I ask is because I can purchase a Mod Motor 4.6 with low compression forged internals, bolt on worked PI heads and an Eaton supercharger with a 9LB pulley and probably be making more HP then the stock Lightning engine. The Mustang guys have been doing this for quite a while using 4R70W transmissions and 8.8 rears without too much trouble. Of course the more HP you make the more likely a failure elsewhere which will probably happen no matter how I increase the HP given the age of the drive train. My rear was just rebuilt using Ford Racing gears and a special anti-flex cover so it should be able to take more then the average 8.8.
I do value your opinion after reading many of your posts, besides you would be the source for the chip. If you can't do it then I guess its back to the drawling board.
I do value your opinion after reading many of your posts, besides you would be the source for the chip. If you can't do it then I guess its back to the drawling board.
#4
07-17-2003, 06:13 PM
#5
07-17-2003, 06:17 PM
Former Sponsor
Hi WLF,
Thanks for your response.
And yes, the Mustang guys have been doing built low-compression 4.6's, slapping a blower on, running a girdle on the 8.8 and doing very well, you are *absolutely* right about that.
However, they're not taking Lightning motors & dropping them into 2.5-3 ton trucks, and that's a *completely* different ballgame. We have *far* more weight to deal with as well as much higher loads in these trucks, and that takes it's toll on *everything* from brakes to differential to tranny to you name it; the Mustang running gear will not stand up in a truck with a Lightning 5.4 motor.
If the 4R70W was adequate for the supercharged 5.4, Ford wouldn't have spent the money to build a Lightning-specific version of the 4R100 HD tranny. And you'll notice that the majority of high-horsepower Mustangs are not using stock 4R70W's, in fact, the "fast" cars (meaning say, many running quicker than 11.0 or so) are in many cases using race-prepped C-4 automatics, at little more than half the price of a built 4R100, and those C4's take less power to turn.
I think it's an *excellent* idea to do a low-comp. forged internals 4.6 motor & mount a blower on top of it, throw a shift kit or built 4R70W behind it and girdle the 8.8 & run it for as long as it will last. I would actually prefer to see the new 5.0 "stroker" version of the 4.6, so you'll have more torque, as is appropriate with the truck, without having the awful rod/stroke ratio of the 5.4 motor to deal with.
There are *many* supercharged F-150's out there, guys who have strapped on a Magnacharger, or Holley Thunder (or even all the centrifugal superchargers that really have no business on a street-driven 2-3 ton truck), etc., bolted up to a stock motor, and with nothing more than a shift kit & a good tune they are able to run pretty quick, say, low to mid 14's, and have a fairly reliable vehicle.
It's all a matter of just how much power & performance you're going to make the vehicle capable of- the crate Lightning motor is very tempting, because you can easily add another 150 HP to it and have a safe & reliable 500+ HP motor at a low cost. But everything *else* that entails, when we're talking about dropping it into the bay of a "regular" F-150, makes it not the most attractive of swaps, as the only thing that is cheap about it is the crate motor - everything else costs a small fortune, building the tranny, trying to keep an 8.8 together under 650 lbs./ft. of torque (like many Lightning customers of ours are making at the flywheel on the stock Eaton M112 blower) & 5000 lbs. of vehicle weight, etc., and you have a completely different set of requirements to make it really reliable.
I don't see anything wrong with dong this in steps - first pick your blower, and run it on the stock motor with a good shift kit and tune with a girdle for the 8.8, while you're saving for the built shortblock, built tranny, PCM, wiring harness, & everything else needed to do a Lightning motor swap into a regular F-150 "right." Figure that doing it "right" will cost you upwards of twice as much as the crate motor by itself.
Good luck!
Thanks for your response.
And yes, the Mustang guys have been doing built low-compression 4.6's, slapping a blower on, running a girdle on the 8.8 and doing very well, you are *absolutely* right about that.
However, they're not taking Lightning motors & dropping them into 2.5-3 ton trucks, and that's a *completely* different ballgame. We have *far* more weight to deal with as well as much higher loads in these trucks, and that takes it's toll on *everything* from brakes to differential to tranny to you name it; the Mustang running gear will not stand up in a truck with a Lightning 5.4 motor.
If the 4R70W was adequate for the supercharged 5.4, Ford wouldn't have spent the money to build a Lightning-specific version of the 4R100 HD tranny. And you'll notice that the majority of high-horsepower Mustangs are not using stock 4R70W's, in fact, the "fast" cars (meaning say, many running quicker than 11.0 or so) are in many cases using race-prepped C-4 automatics, at little more than half the price of a built 4R100, and those C4's take less power to turn.
I think it's an *excellent* idea to do a low-comp. forged internals 4.6 motor & mount a blower on top of it, throw a shift kit or built 4R70W behind it and girdle the 8.8 & run it for as long as it will last. I would actually prefer to see the new 5.0 "stroker" version of the 4.6, so you'll have more torque, as is appropriate with the truck, without having the awful rod/stroke ratio of the 5.4 motor to deal with.
There are *many* supercharged F-150's out there, guys who have strapped on a Magnacharger, or Holley Thunder (or even all the centrifugal superchargers that really have no business on a street-driven 2-3 ton truck), etc., bolted up to a stock motor, and with nothing more than a shift kit & a good tune they are able to run pretty quick, say, low to mid 14's, and have a fairly reliable vehicle.
It's all a matter of just how much power & performance you're going to make the vehicle capable of- the crate Lightning motor is very tempting, because you can easily add another 150 HP to it and have a safe & reliable 500+ HP motor at a low cost. But everything *else* that entails, when we're talking about dropping it into the bay of a "regular" F-150, makes it not the most attractive of swaps, as the only thing that is cheap about it is the crate motor - everything else costs a small fortune, building the tranny, trying to keep an 8.8 together under 650 lbs./ft. of torque (like many Lightning customers of ours are making at the flywheel on the stock Eaton M112 blower) & 5000 lbs. of vehicle weight, etc., and you have a completely different set of requirements to make it really reliable.
I don't see anything wrong with dong this in steps - first pick your blower, and run it on the stock motor with a good shift kit and tune with a girdle for the 8.8, while you're saving for the built shortblock, built tranny, PCM, wiring harness, & everything else needed to do a Lightning motor swap into a regular F-150 "right." Figure that doing it "right" will cost you upwards of twice as much as the crate motor by itself.
Good luck!
