hoping Mike can help or maybe some others might have some ideas too.

i had e-fans on my truck all last year and never had any overheating problems when pulling my boat.

this year i installed the underdrive pully i got from TP and everything seemed fine.

the next day i got to tow my boat and after running down the road for a half hour and stop the oil pressure guage starts bouncing alittle. just off idle it is back to normal. then going uphill i could whatch the temp guage start climbing never had that problem before.

so my question is should set up fan turn on temp lower? or is the under drive turning my water pump too slow at 2000 rpm to keep the motor cool when im towing?

its a 97 4.2L V-6 5-speed with towing package

 

Hello Bentwrench (love that name),

First - it's only fair that I point out the obvious - this is not on topic for the Computer Chips section, my friend, so this really doesn't belong here. For Tech Support on any of our products, you need to *call us*, please - that is the only way to get proper help (Tech Support) with any of our products. That cannot be done here, as it's against the rules of F-150 Online for vendors to provide their customers with Tech Support here. Most importantly, you need better service than that! As we ask all of our customers, any time you think you may have a problem with anything purchased from us, *please* call us right away so you can get proper help as quickly as possible, OK? Thanks!

Now let's discuss this just briefly..................

I wouldn't go lowering the fan turn-on temperatures just yet (that may very well do the trick, but there are a couple other things to check out first). Generally speaking, if they are set up properly already, that's usually not going to cure an overheating problem.

It sounds like you may just have something else going on there, especially the part about the oil pressure gauge fluctuating - that does *not* happen as a result of installing our underdrive pulley for the 4.2 V6 (or our V8 sets or any of our other sets, for that matter). Just to let you know, not once has that ever been seen by us on any vehicle here, or been reported by any of our customers - including those using our 4.2 V6 single underdrive pulley. Generally speaking, you're not going to overheat a healthy engine/cooling system from using our underdrive pulley for the 4.2 V6 (our the V8's, etc.). In the 4.2 V6, it's one underdrive pulley, the crankshaft pulley - the water pump pulley remains stock, so you have a smaller amount of slowdown of the water pump than on the V8 applications - and the V8's have no such problems, for example. You're getting plenty of water circulation at idle, let alone at 2000 rpm - as long as the water pump is up to snuff and the thermostat is working properly. To give you an idea of what we see in our testing, we see no inherent difference in engine coolant temperatures when operating in everything from unloaded cruising to drag racing to towing at rated capacity loads, doing before & after monitoring of engine coolant temperatures in each "condition" - either with the stock pulleys or our underdrive pulley for the 4.2 V6, or our 2-piece set for the V8's, the coolant temps did not change based on which pulleys were used in each type of use - I.E., cruising coolant temps were the same with both pulley sets, then coolant temps when doing 1/4 mile passes were the same with both pulley sets, etc., etc.

I suppose there's always a a first time for anything (!) - time will tell in this case too, as we work with you on this. But so far, we've never had that happen, and there are so many vehicles running that setup..........hmmm.........

This could be due any of a number of things - like maybe a thermostat that's a bit notchy and sticks partially closed once in a while - or a water pump that's been going bad slowly (as they tend to do), and now just can't keep up with a little bit slower rotational speed from the underdrive pulley - etc.

Given the track record of so many trucks using that setup (including the 4.2 V6's), along with your description, it seems to indicate a mechanical issue - so before lowering the fan turn-on temps, I'd first check out things like the thermostat (just replace it, stock is 192, don't go any lower than a 180 unit). It's dirt-cheap to replace it and once it's out, then check the "feel" of it's travel by depressing the thermostat's "table" against the spring with your fingers - is it seamlessly smooth, or does it feel a even just little bit "notchy" thru it's range of travel? Anything short of being seamlessly smooth - it's bad. You can easily have a thermostat that works correctly most of the time, but just every once in a while, sticks partially closed - that actually happened in our 2001 F-150 a couple years ago, for example (at less than 20K miles), and caused overheating even with the fans running (of course, with little to no coolant circulation) - tapping the t-stat housing with a screwdriver handle opened it right up, and replacement cured the problem. (Note: Many claim their thermostats will stick fully open if they fail, but we find that not to be the case in many situations) Then once you're sure the t-stat is OK (or preferably, you've gone ahead and replaced it), then check out the water pump.

Also, make sure your e-fans are coming on properly - make sure no fuses are blown, and double-check the actual turn-on temperatures from a cold start to see just where they are right now - make sure they are set in accordance with the temperature of thermostat being used.

Your cooling system should have no problem handling this with e-fans set up properly and our underdrive pulley(s). If it's our e-fan kit (or any dual-fan kit), then the low temp fan needs to come on about 10-15 degrees above thermostat opening temp, and the high temp fan another 10 degrees above that. Lowering the fan turn-on temps *might* help (don't forget that the turn-on temps and the thermostat rating need to coincide - a change in one generally requires a change in the other), but I'd first check the t-stat, water pump & verify the current turn-on temps.

Sorry I really can't be more help immediately - as always, the real answer is to give us a call so we can go over this with you and do step-by-step troubleshooting to effect the cure.

So please call us, & talk to you soon!

 

thanks Mike T. i didnt think it was actually the pulley causing it directly. but i will have to check my fans temp and t-stat. i could see the water pump going bad it does have 117k miles on it. and im just tinking maybe put a ford t-stat back in never had a problem with those. its got a jet 180 degree now.

if i still have a problem later i'll give tech support a call.

if the fans turn on too cold could they make the t-stat stay closed too much under load?

 

Hi Bent,

OK - a properly functioning 180 t-stat, while not my favorite for these trucks in normally aspirated trim, will actually be OK - now in your case, since you are overheating I'd still go ahead and at least pull that t-stat and check it's range of motion for any "notchiness," and if there is *any*, just replace it. FYI, we don't find the Ford t-stats to be any more "reliable" than a good quality aftermarket unit - we've had Ford t-stats fail with very few miles on them (not many, but it happens once in a while). What they usually do is stick partially or even completely closed, just once in a while - they don't seem to completely fail outright, but instead just choose to stick once in a while, which can sometimes make diagnosis a bit tricky - which is why we say to just replace them.

Using a 180 t-stat won't cause any problems - the heater will still work in winter (where it won't with a 160 unit), the fans will work OK as long as their turn-on temps are calibrated to match the 180 t-stat, etc. We like using the stock 192 degree unit simply because it helps us keep the engine coolant temperatures closer to the 200-210 degree range - about where they are stock, which is where best power & fuel mileage is made. But a 180 unit will be fine.

Most likely it's the water pump itself - check it's bottom side for any signs of leakage (rust, scale, etc.).

Don't hesitate to call us if you'd like to go over any of this, OK?

Good luck!

 

thanks again mike. it hasnt overheated or even made the gauge climb since i setup the fans to turn on at 190 F. and it even seemed to help the oil pressure gauge bounce, but still does after i pull the boat. i'm pretty sure the bearings are goin out just tryin to get as much out of it before i get a new motor.

 

I would just go ahead and put a new water pump in. You can get one for 40-60 bucks, and its just 4 bolts holding it in. Very easy job.

Also, about the oil pressure bouncing, try replacing the oil pressure sender. My dad had that problem in his old Mountaineer, and a new sender fixed the problem. His also bounced when he would tow our boat, not so much when normally driving. I guess it has something to do with being under additional load...

Both should be easy fixes!

- Rick -

 

oil pressure sender didnt fix it. and it only does it when its been under a load for awhile. i'm pretty sure the bearings are now worn or the releif valve in the front cover is acting up.

 

Hi Bentwrench,

Just out of curiosity, to try to get an idea of the engine's basic health........................

How many miles are on this motor?

What oil (brand and viscosity) & oil filters are you using, & how often (how many miles) are you doing your oil changes?

Is the motor using any oil? (Meaning, are you having to add *any* oil between oil changes, and if so, how much oil in how many miles?)

Just wondering, as this all has some bearing on diagnosis, of course.............................

 

Mike, ive always thought, at least the Tbird guys have been telling me that installing colder plugs, 1-2 heat ranges colder and a 180 tstat, will make more power, because with a tune, u can advance the timing more (thus making more power), than u could if u kept the stock plugs and tstat, it seems very common on the TCCoA forums for guys to do this installing that combination.

 

118k miles now. change the oil with mobil 1 synthetic 5w-30 every 5k to 6k and motorcraft filter ever since i got it at 12k. when i change it out the oil still has a good clean look and doesnt smell burnt up. and i've never had to add a drop between oil changes.

i had the front cover gasket failure way back at 40k that got fixed under a service program. then at about 110k the lower intake started leaking alot and i finially fixed that too. but i have always had the coolant that disappeared from time to time. now the coolant level has been the same since i fixed the lower intake gasket.

i have headers and gibson exhaust with a mac intake and ported and polished upper and lowers. so it prolly has alittle lower end noise but i cant hear it.

im not really worried about this that much the truck has been real good to me. and will prolly get a new motor when the time comes. just trying to stretch it for everything its worth.

 

Hi Bentwrench,

OK, thanks for that info.

Normal service life with proper 3000 mile oil & filter changes is 175K-200K miles - anything less is abnormal these days. It's not like when a lot of us were growing up, where you were *lucky* if you got 80K-100K miles before major engine repairs or an overhaul was needed, engines built over the past 10-12 years should go 175K-200K miles before overhaul is needed.

Just some quick general FYI stuff (and please don't take any of this personally Bentwrench, just trying to share some general info)..............

We do not advise running even a great synthetic oil like Mobil 1 for longer than 3000-4000 miles in these vehicles, or in any truck, SUV, or "performance" vehicle either - and always change the oil filter every oil change, otherwise the oil filter goes into bypass and no longer filters the oil.

These trucks need to always be maintained under the "severe duty" maintenance schedules at a *minimum*- even if they never do any towing.

The motorcraft oil filter is a decent unit for a "standard" oil filter, but it's still going to go into bypass long before 10-12K miles, and then the oil never gets filtered at all - the engine is just constantly recirculating dirty oil. Regardless of the appearance of the oil (color, smell, etc.), the detergents that keep contaminants in suspension must be replenished and a fresh filter installed.

A lot of people who use synthetic oils extend the oil change interval, and in many cases it's because this used to be encouraged by some oil companies marketing strategies. It used to be used as a justification for spending the extra money for synthetic oil - and a couple still do that, unfortunately. This is a bad idea with a "conventional" automotive filtration system.

At 118K miles, there should not be a drop in oil pressure enough to cause an oil pressure gauge to "fluctuate" at idle, for example, after a load event as is being described in this case - low oil pressure at idle is not normal at 118K miles.

We advise using either a conventional motor oil or a full synthetic - no synthetic blends, they're not worth paying almost as much as the full synthetics cost IMHO. For best engine protection, in our vehicles we use Mobil 1, but in a viscosity of 10W-30 as that provides better engine protection than the 5W-30 or 5W-20 oils. The reason automakers use those lighter oils is for CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy, the average mpg of their fleet each model year) mandates they have to hit each model year. For example, switching from 10W-30 to 5W-30 some years ago gave Ford a half a tenth of an mpg - 0.05 mpg. This is also the reason they further dropped to the 5-20 oils - now in *that* case, Ford uses the theory that this is equal to taking roughly 30,000 vehicles of the road each year, in terms of the estimated impact on fuel economy. It's stated that way in their documentation (dealership service manuals) simply because the actual effect is even less than the already tiny 0.05 mpg they got from going to 5W-30. Why would an automaker use 5W-20 for not even 0.05 mpg? Because when you are building *millions* of vehicles, 0.05 mpg in each one adds up, and every little bit helps when trying to meet the mpg CAFE mandates they must meet each model year.

Truth be told, most of today's "brand" oils are so good that using a quality 5W-30 (or 5W-20 in the newest vehicles) will usually provide a long service life. But 10W-30 is even better protection, especially in areas where loads are high, like bearings, piston rings, etc., and we advise that for use in these trucks, SUV's, minivans, motorhomes, performance vehicles, etc.

We use Mobil 1 10W-30, and either the K&N gold oil filter or the Mobil 1 oil filter, and change oil every 3000 miles in our non-supercharged vehicles. Once in a while, we get busy (like most people) and an oil change will go 3500-4000 miles - it happens. This is just one of many reasons why we use only top-shelf oils & filters, so we don't have to worry if that happens. In our supercharged truck, we change that oil every 1500-2000 miles, as on Lightnings & many other supercharged engines you will get more blow by due to the vastly increased cylinder pressures, and the oil deteriorates more quickly.

Sorry to ramble on off-topic here, I tend to get carried away about oil sometimes - my apologies.

Bentwrench, it looks like you've made some very nice performance enhancements and have a nice truck there - worth keeping and dropping in a new motor when the time comes, if need be. I would suggest changing the oil filter every time you change the oil - that is, if I understood your post correctly, I understood your post to say that you're changing the oil filter every 12K miles, so if I misunderstood -- never mind!

Good luck,

 

you did bring up alot of good pointers and i will likely try 10w-30 mobil 1 next time.

i've owned the truck since 12k. i would never go that long without changing the filter. if i drain the oil it gets a new filter. on average every 4500 miles.

but there are a few things that can cause low oil pressure at 118k miles on the mighty 4.2L 1. most likely being the oil pressure relief valve barried in the front cover. 2. being contaminated with coolant long enough to wash out bearings. and there are a few others but those are the 2 i am suspecting right now.

im doing mostly hwy miles so i put about 4500 on it in alittle over 2 months. and when i had the lower intake off at 110k there was no sludge what so ever.

 

Hi Bentwrench,

OK, very glad to hear I completely misunderstood on the oil filter change interval. I just went back and re-read that post, and you were actually very clear on that - I must not have read it carefully enough the first time before I went rambling on, D-oh!!

You're right of course about the potential oil pressure relief valve issue on those 4.2's - and if coolant contaminated the oil, the wear on the bearings would be vastly increased, dropping oil pressure, etc. I hope that isn't the case, with as well as you have maintained that motor using Mobil 1, and with your miles being mostly highway miles etc., at 118K miles you really should have been only about halfway thru the normal service life........

Let us know what happens if you tear into this in more depth, & hopefully bumping up to the 10W-30 (if you decide to) will get you a bit more oil pressure, etc.....................

Good luck,