Now i know this isnt for an f150, but can be applied to other vehicles as well. I hang out on the TCCoA (Thunderbird and Cougar Club of America) forums quite a bit, and a common mod i see with the tbird guys, is to put on a 02 GT maf, airbox, and intake tube to a 94-97 tbird 4.6. But obviosuly doing this, u need a tune to use the transfer function on the MAF. My question is lets say i get a 9100 tuner, and i put down i have an 02 maf, or i decide to put it on later, now i have 3 custom tunes to choose from. Would all the custom programs be programmed to use the 02 GT maf, or just 1 program?

 

Hi Wilson502,

Yeah, good place for MN12 owners - some of Jerry W's old 4R70W transmission articles are posted there, if memory serves.

You're absolutely right, your question *does* "cross-apply" - even though we're not talking specifically about an F-150, it's a tuning-related topic on a FoMoCo vehicle.

Yes, you are absolutely right - the MAF transfer function in the PCM's program would have to be changed to make virtually *any* MAF change work correctly and safely for the engine. That can certainly be done, we do it every day.

We *love* using FoMoCo MAF meters for upgrades (and we use the 90mm MAF from the 2001 Lightning as an upgrade on these trucks), as when you select the proper unit with the range needed for the application, their MAF calibrations are very consistent, generally speaking - making our job of developing the new transfer function easier, to say nothing of being cheaper than a Pro-M, etc.

What we would do in the 9100 would basically be up to you: with 3 tunes available, we can set it up for any way you like in each tune. Normally, once you change the MAF it's going to stay on there, so the new transfer function for the new MAF would need to be in every tune. Alternately, at a minimum it would be needed in every tune that will be used when that different MAF setup is on the vehicle.

The 9100 is empty when we get it, so all the tuning inside we have to develop - thus we have freedom to load into it whatever we want, so it's basically up to the *customer* to decide just what happens in each tune. We could set up one tune for the stock T-bird MAF, if you intend to use the stock MAF sometimes, for example. Realistically, there's rarely a reason to go back to the stock MAF once you have a "bigger" MAF on there and it's properly tuned for - usually you leave it be, so you'd want the new transfer function in each of the new tunes.

The bottom line is, we'll set it up any way you want within reason. We'll tell the customer what we think & what we advise for each given situation, then from there the customer generally calls the shots, so we'll set up the 9100's 3 different tunes just about any way you like.

Give us a call to go over this in more detail, or to have us do the tune for your T-bird, etc.

Good luck!

 

Thx for all the info, ur help is appreciated, i live out in california, so i have to deal with the smog *****. Dont mean to be deraguatory. But anyway, theres no SCT shops that i kno of where i live, i live in fresno, but theres only 1 dyno shop in the whole town i believe. I have to smog the car again next janurary, so i would prolly put the stock intake and everything back on, flash back to stock, then set the 02 intake, and custom tune back on after i smog.

 

i do have a ?, say i buy it, tuned for say a mainly stock car, cept for 22c plugs and 180 T stat. Lets say i add an 02 maf later, and i need to get a reflash for the tuner, will i lose my stock factory setting by reflashing the tuner for an 02 maf or no?

 

Don't worry about being perceived as "derogatory" around here - I've got a *lot* of German blood in me for example, and spent 13 years in Europe. But even I still refer to them as "smog ****'s" from time to time - fair's fair.

Don't worry about losing your stock tuning, either - we can easily make sure that does not happen. The 9100 will store your original stock tuning, of course - then if we need to alter the tuning in the 9100 for you at any point in the future for any reason, you simply first use the 9100 to return the vehicle back to it's stock factory tune for just long enough to reflash the Micro Tuner itself with the new tuning - and then go re-tune the vehicle with the new tuning again. Using that very simple procedure, you'll never lose access to your original stock factory powertrain program, no problem. Thats' a *very* important consideration, absolutely.

Talk to you soon!

 

so basically, before i reflash the tuner, set the cars computer back to stock, reflash the tuner through email, then tune it for an 02 maf, and itll retrieve my factory settings? Sounds good to me. I probably should get some 22C plugs and a 180 T stat, whats the advantage of running the 2 together?

 

Right - before reflashing the 9100 with new tunes received via email from us, you would first need to use the 9100 to return the vehicle's PCM program back to stock. Then reflash the 9100 using your PC with the new files we'd send, and then you can load the new tuning into the vehicle's PCM.

I am not a fan of using lower-than-stock temperature thermostats, generally speaking, unless a supercharger (or turbocharger) has been added - in which case a 180 is fine. The engine is going to make it's highest power (all else being equal) at about 210 degrees of coolant temperature - this is why the factory t-stat in many FoMoCo vehicles (and others) requires about 192-194 degrees to open. You can drop to a 180 if you like, that won't cause a problem - the heater will still work in winter (where it wouldn't with a 160, usually), etc.

I don't have all the heat ranges for all plugs for all vehicles memorized, so I couldn't tell you if a 22C is appropriate for your car or not - in the Denso Iridium plugs, the 1997 4.6 T'bird calls for the same heat range that the F-150 does, as do most 4.6 & 5.4 SOHC applications - IT-16.

I have no idea how your T'bird is configured, it's mods, what kind of power it's making etc., but in short - I would use the factory recommended heat range for both the thermostat and the spark plugs unless you are adding either a supercharger, or have added so much more power via other types of modifications (say, 75 HP over stock) that a "colder" spark plug is actually required.

If you'd like to go over any of this in more detail, go over the mods you've done, etc., so we can advise you properly, just give us a quick call at our number listed below & we'll be happy to.

 

the stock plugs on my car r AWSF-32FF, platinums, 22C, is one heat range colder and copper. My car as it is is bone stock right now, but the reason a lot of tbird guys switch to 1-2 heat range colder plugs and a 180 tstat, because it allows you to run more advanced timing without detonation, then if u kept the stock plugs and tstat.

 

Hi Wilson,

Running one heat range colder plug is generally not going to allow you to run significant additional timing unless the stock plug is too hot to begin with - which is rare, and we have not experienced that in any 4.6 motor F-150's, for example.

A colder thermostat generally isn't of much real benefit in power or fuel mileage either in these FoMoCo applications - the engine makes it's best power output at about 210 degrees, anyway. Which is precisely why race cars (like NASCAR stock cars, etc.) have their cooling systems configured to deliver a nominal coolant temperature of about 210 degrees. A 180 t-stat does not generally lower the temperature of the engine coolant **once the motor is up to normal operating temperature** - you haven't changed anything in the radiator's capacity, or the water pump, etc. That just allows coolant to flow from the engine into the radiator a couple minutes sooner after a cold or warm start, a 180 t-stat rarely causes any significant lowering of normal operating temperatures.

Now it *is* true that those MN12 platform vehicles are famous for not cooling the automatic transmission fluid properly - Ford had to issue a TSB to add an inline tranny cooler just to get the tranny fluid temps under control, as many were burning the tranny fluid black. It may be that the setup from the factory on some of the MN12's was such that the engine coolant temps consistently get significantly above 210 degrees - we did not see that in any of the T'birds that we have owned, nor did we see that in any of the numerous 4.6 T'birds we rented back when we were doing tuning R&D on that platform some years ago (the 4.6 V8 T'bird was a staple of rental car companies for a few years back then).

How are you going to add that additional timing in, by the way?

You don't have a distributor - and the PCM isn't going to just automatically add in timing on it's own just from going to a colder plug or a 180 t-stat.

While the PCM does have the ability to alter spark based on coolant temperature and many other things, the ECT spark modifier is perhaps the least sensitive of all the spark modifiers, and thus could potentially add in only a *tiny* amount - just dropping from a 192 to a 180 t-stat probably wouldn't get you anything - maybe a half a degree more timing from the PCM on it's own, *if* that.

We also didn't see any elevation in the EGT's (exhaust gas temperatures in any mode of operation or location in any of my T'birds, or in those we rented during our days of tuning R&D on those cars some years back - that would be an indicator of a too-hot spark plug. Each heat range you go colder pulls roughly another 70-100 degrees out of the combustion chamber during cruising, a bit less under WOT - that isn't going to allow much additional timing in and of itself.

Now of course just speaking in general, for use on good quality fuel there *is* significant additional timing that can be added **via proper tuning** to those 4.6 T'birds and make them run better, make more power, get better mpg, etc. - they're tuned pretty conservatively from the factory in most cases.

*Maybe* the changes you're talking about *might* have some small benefit, but before doing such any such changes on a stock vehicle like that, I'd want to know just exactly what the engine coolant temperatures actually are under various types of driving conditions as reported by the ECT sensor - *if* they are consistently going above about 210, then sure, dropping in a 180 t-stat could potentially help power a little bit in certain types of operation - but it's not going to be much. I'd also want to see just where the EGT's (exhaust gas temperatures) range before dropping in a colder spark plug on a stock engine.

Personally, I wouldn't make changes to t-stat & spark plug heat range on a stock engine without the data (ECT's & EGT's) to support their actual need/benefit - but if you feel there is sufficient data to support that, then by all means, have at it.

Best of luck whatever you decide!