Rand,

I agree completely, long term data collection
is the best of all possible tests. Then the
only variable you have to deal with is global warming, but wait, we only have data on world
temperatures for the last one hundred years,
hardly enough to say that we really have it,
on the scale of world time that is. On the other hand a years worth of real world
data collection for a vehicle that lasts 10
is a significant sampling.

Mike T. where's the data?

I want to make one thing clear, the last thing I would do is instrument my vehicle
just to check the chip, this is a byproduct
of another experiment. I'm doing all of that data logging to build a database on engine
performance so I can write my own "active"
engine control program. What I mean by this
is that instead of a flip chip, I want to be
able to tweak any one of a dozen or more
variables "on the fly" so to speak. Let's
say I'm at the track one day and it's a bit on the warm side, well I don't want to get into reformulating my fuel, or using some clugy retail hand held programmer, I want to input the day's conditions and automatically write out a new set of control variables to
the computer, with several different levels
of agression of course, I like the 1/4 mile!
Rand, you are right on, keep the faith, Mike T.'s banner add claims increased MPG, yeh, if
you baby the **** out of it because you want to see it!

Mike T., get the mpg claim out of your add,
you yourself have said many times that you do not "promote" this idea. What's up with that, a little salesmanship eh?

All of this talk about a "dyno" is a bunch
of crap, that's like talking about how energy
efficient a freezer is at the north pole

Thats OK, the world is full of salesman
making false claims or stretching the truth,
we all have to remember to keep our jive
filters turned on.

 

ANALOGY:

The probability of getting HEADS when flipping a coin is 50% or P=.5....

Say the first 1000 permutations of flipping the coin happen to yeild the following:

887 tails

Does this mean the probability is not longer .5?

No... I may have had variations in each toss like:

1. Sweaty hands
2. Drops
3. Thrown differently
4. Trying to get tails
5. Fatigue

etc....

Eventually given enough permutations the variations effecting the test do NOT effect the outcome. The propensity of getting heads is the same as tails.

Same as with fuel types, energy contents, pump click variations, WOTs, etc... Given engough permutations the outcome should eventually start to show a propensity of the chip yeilding an increase in MPG.
REGARDLESS of, engine, driver, climate, fuel types, etc...

I'm saying for every ANOMALY of someone in Wherethehellami, Canada who happens to get this 1-2 or better increase in mileage, you have 5 others that do NOT see this. Hence, the moving averages will negate these anonalies and still show the propensity towards a DECREASE in mileage.

Mike, you can even throw in your "SCIENTIFIC LABRATORY" data as permutations! IT DONT MATTA!

How can you argue with statistics?

 

gonenorth1:

You happen to be one of the most intelligent and funny people I've read on this site! Glad you joined us...

I'm not saying this becuase you agree with me, but mearly because you obviously use sound logic! UNLIKE Jesse Jackson followers... Mike, like Jackson, skews the truth and the mass of population just FOLLOWS along like good blind folk do!

You must ALWAYS question authority! ALWAYS! No matter how wrong you might be, eventually enough good minds will find the truth! 2 heads are better than 1....

 

This discussion reminds me of my warranty post of early 2000. However on a separate note, Two of my friends did have chips and sold them because they did not see any mileage increase or much of a performance increase. I do still have mine because of what it does to make the transmission shift better.

Now for the real question? Will I ever buy another superchip. NO! Mike T. is a very helpful person with the chips he sells and many other things he doesn’t. But as soon as you post anything negative about his product he will try do discredit you and even go as low as to personally attack you.

You also have to be careful on what you post in this forum because it has the auto-dog release on anything posted negative about superchips.


------------------
97 XLT 4.6L SC 4X4 ORP Gibson Catback
JBA Headers.. Hot Coated
Ford Motorsport 9MM wires
SuperChip
Supercharged
JLL Stealthbox
Rockford Fosgate punch 45 to drive stealthbox

 

I asked for that kind of data months ago from Mike....surprisingly never got it.

I guess you have to preface your questions with: I LOVE THE CHIP!

[This message has been edited by Triton46 (edited 12-14-2000).]

 

So far the bottom line is:

1. Chip gave me a 2 MPG increase when towing.

2. Feels like it increases power to some degree. How much exactly I dont know. But I'll bet Mike's numbers are the average and pretty close.

3. Helps trans shifts.

4. Gets rid of nose-dive when shifting.

5. Increase in MPG VERY QUESTIONABLE!

 

Can't we all jis git along???
I have to say for most people apples are apples. If an apple a day had an annecdotal benefit it wasn't a Rome or a Granny, or a Jonathan . If a product gives better gas mileage it isn't just with summer fuel,or on a dyno or driving like a lab rat. This is how we as a people get into the "What exactly is your definition of sex Mr. President" type questions. You know what is and i know what it is so let's stop F$%&ing around about it .
The reality is Mike can say it gives better mileage (because in some situations it undoubtably does) and anyone with a brain and at least one good eye can read forums and threads like this to make their own decisions. (and should) If some people don't, then the ultimate outcome should just be chalked up to "Natural Selection". It's the price of freedom and free enterprise.
Rand and Gonenorth everyone should really appreciate the work you put into this for all of our benefit.
Mike you too should be commended for all the work you've obviously done to bring a product like yours to market for the rest of us programically and technologically challenged performance lovers to give us a little more freedom from the automakers (and/or governmental) performance barriers.
All three of you have given everyone a little more (in some cases alot more) knowledge than we might have had without all your' efforts . so as i see it
"It all good".... NET GAIN.
W.T

------------------
Ordered on 11/2/00:
VIN'd on 11/13
Built on 12/4
ETA week of 12/25
Merry Christmas to me !
4X4 Lariat
SCrew, Arizona
Beige, 5.4 Liter, Offroad
Pkg, Moonroof, Rear
slider, Capt's seats,
Side steps, Bed xtndr,6
CD, L S D 3.55

Soon: Lid, Line-X Spray-in liner, Intake mods.

 

Rand, gone north, etc.,

I stand by what I have said here. If my responses aren't satisfactory to you, then that is a decision you'll have to make for yourselves.

Though I'm sure we'll hear back that this isn't credible either, here are just a couple of recent threads where mileage gains were posted:

1.) https://www.f150online.com/f150board...ML/001100.html

2.) The 8th post in this thread: https://www.f150online.com/f150board...ML/002855.html

For anyone who has been reading these boards for any real length of time, we've all seen numerous post of mileage gains, and it's a well known fact that we have always told people that it's merely a by-product, and not something we can guarantee in every situation no matter what, let's be real here.

Just recently "2001" posted getting 75-100 more Km per tank with the Superchip up in Canada, and "LaserNAV" told me over the phone that he saw initial gains of 3-4 mpg in his 300-hp DOHC Navigator (that's well above the average gains most people see, and not typical of course) Just like there are posts of lower mileage gains, and a few of not getting mileage gains, etc. The same pattern, over and over, and for the past 2 years here, we've seen that overall, more people do see mileage gains than do not. And we will continue to report back exactly what people report to us, good, bad, or indifferent, we always have.

There have been numerous posts where people have mentioned they were thinking of buying the Superchip for the increased mileage, and anytime we've seen such as post, we've been very quick to point out that this cannot be guaranteed under all conditions on any fuel, and let them know as best we can what other people have reported back, and what to expect. We also let them know which brands of gasoline in our experince tend to provide better performance and mileage. More we really cannot do.

And no Rand, Mobil is *not* the same gas as Exxon, at least, not yet. Time will tell what happens from the merger long-term, but Exxon is *not* Mobil gas today. Mobil has a higher energy content that Exxon, noticeably so, and is also not as "clean" a fuel as Exxon is. Nor is BP suddenly turning into Amoco gas, just because BP bought out Amoco. I'm hoping that long-term the BP buyout of Amoco doens't ruin the traditionally excellent quality of Amoco gasoline, but time will tell on that one as well.

By the way Gorp, nice to see you back again. I see you're still a class act.

Merry Christmas,

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 12-14-2000).]

 

Ahhhh did not have sex with that woman....

ooops, wrong topic...


Driving without the superchip is like having sex with a condom.


Mike Troyer, I didn't know you owned this board. Maybe you could help me out with a discount on some of those fancy headlights....

I have a birthday, a 22nd anniversary, and Christmas all in the next two weeks. And my chip will be there for all of it.

Happy holidays everyone.




------------------
Drive it like ya stole it,

Terry Deaton
99 F150 XLT, Bright Red, 2WD, 4.6, S/C, S/B, Superchip, K&N FIPK, FMS 9mm, +4s, Nerfs, Leer Top, Cow Catcher W/Bright A$$ Lights, True Duals with hi flow cats and Magnaflow Lightning Style, 275 Dunlops with 3.08 gears, fat swaybars, Steeda front and Hellwig rear, 3.5" Fabtech spindles with 2" blocks, B/E Performance Shift kit with B&M Cast Deep Pan, Steeda Billit Pedals.
Coming Soon: 4.10s and Auburn Diff, Eibach Front Coils and Add a Leafs, Underdrive Pullies and Kick A$$ Shocks.
96 SVT COBRA (almost stock)
98 AERO black w/lotsa chrome
Speed Kills, drive a Chevy and live forever.
http://www.geocities.com/terrydeaton.geo/index7.htm

 

Just for the record, here is the HARD EVIDENCE Mike is talking about in his 2 hyperlinks:

1. Before the chip I averaged 15 to 15.3 mpg on the highway. My first tank with the chip she did 16.53 mpg.

2. I have picked up about 1.7 mpg with the chip installed and that is just a .009, (less than 1 cent per mile) increase in operating cost. SO in the long run I feel it is well worth the price for the performance gains,

------------------------

First, just posting a "I picked up..." is NOT in any way data!

Second, how does this other person know "in the long run" anything will happen at all....


BOTH ARE 1 INSTANCE of ONLY the outcome.... Where is the gallons used and the miles driven.... I tend to believe people who can at least give us the data.

We need long term evidence of these gains Mike! People posting little WOWEE segments HARDLY cut it!

I'll bet there's at least 300 "WOWEE I got 900 MPG" postings but VERY VERY few REAL long term data postings like I have done!

 

Ok, I have been logging all my mileage, for the last eleven months, since my truck was brand new. Rand, one thing I do notice is that you have an expedition, which even outweighs my 157” SC 4x4. I have been using the same gas…same gas station from day one, with a few exceptions, a trip in july..As I got real good mileage on the trip. Comparing the Superchips statement on increasing mileage, is like Ford saying quality is “Job One”….sometimes it happens, sometimes it don’t. I have had my Superchip (flipchip) installed for only a month. And two weeks before that, my mileage dropped, due to the addition of “oxygenated” fuel here in the northwest. So, I know I wont be able to truly test my mileage, until sometime next spring. Another large factor is you constantly changing brands of gas. No gas is the same, and over time, even gas of the same brand will vary.

18778.3 1353.53 13.87 $2,187.54
Date Miles Gallons Mileage Price

1/16/00 164.3 12.6 13.04 $18.50
1/20/00 228.7 17.6 12.99 $25.77
1/26/00 312.6 22.6 13.83 $33.75
2/3/00 315.6 24 13.15 $36.00
2/7/00 308.5 22.7 13.59 $34.60
2/11/00 346.8 25.3 13.71 $38.00
2/19/00 316 24 13.17 $36.50
2/23/00 221.4 16.3 13.58 $25.50
2/25/00 146.8 10.7 13.72 $16.75
2/27/00 146.4 10.2 14.35 $16.00
3/2/00 222.6 16.6 13.41 $26.00
3/12/00 281.1 21.2 13.26 $31.90
3/16/00 175.4 13.75 12.76 $22.00
3/21/00 143.7 10.9 13.18 $18.01
3/23/00 116.5 9.1 12.80 $15.00
3/26/00 239.7 17.08 14.03 $28.00
3/29/00 148.5 12.5 11.88 $20.50
4/7/00 289.9 20.1 14.42 $32.25
4/11/00 279.1 20.3 13.75 $32.50
4/15/00 264.8 19 13.94 $30.50
4/21/00 350.4 24.6 14.24 $38.50
4/28/00 304 22.1 13.76 $35.00
5/3/00 349.4 25.1 13.92 $37.70
5/11/00 304.9 23.3 13.09 $35.00
5/17/00 355.6 25.5 13.95 $38.00
5/27/00 318.6 25.3 12.59 $37.00
6/3/00 340.1 24.1 14.11 $34.50
6/9/00 228.4 19.1 11.96 $27.50
6/10/00 289.7 17.4 16.65 $28.00
6/12/00 86.3 6.9 12.51 $11.25
6/13/00 296.9 18 16.49 $26.00
6/19/00 307.1 24.6 12.48 $36.00
6/25/00 324.1 24.3 13.34 $36.50
6/30/00 336.1 24.9 13.50 $38.40
7/2/00 72.7 5.8 12.53 $9.00
7/7/00 395.5 25.6 15.45 $41.00
7/13/00 293.7 26.2 11.21 $42.00
7/17/00 400.1 26.2 15.27 $42.00
7/19/00 191.4 13.1 14.61 $21.00
7/24/00 384.8 26.2 14.69 $42.00
7/29/00 356.7 25.6 13.93 $40.00
8/3/00 346.7 25 13.87 $39.00
8/6/00 392.1 25.6 15.32 $40.00
8/12/00 382.7 27.4 13.97 $45.00
8/16/00 398.2 26.5 15.03 $43.50
8/24/00 404.3 26.8 15.09 $43.00
8/29/00 383.1 27 14.19 $46.00
9/5/00 380 25.8 14.73 $44.00
9/14/00 332.4 23.8 13.97 $41.50
9/19/00 245.7 18.4 13.35 $32.00
9/22/00 199.1 14.3 13.92 $25.00
9/23/00 250.7 16 15.67 $27.00
9/29/00 415.5 29.4 14.13 $49.50
10/7/00 383.3 25 15.33 $45.50
10/7/00 234.6 14.1 16.64 $23.50
10/10/00 243.5 15.5 15.71 $27.50
10/15/00 314.5 22.6 13.92 $39.00
10/22/00 334.4 25.8 12.96 $44.00
10/24/00 84.7 6 14.12 $10.00
11/10/00 305.3 26.3 11.61 $48.50
11/17/00 356.2 25.9 13.75 $47.75
11/18/00 172.5 12.3 14.02 $22.21
11/25/00 355 25.5 13.92 $47.00
12/1/00 354 26.1 13.56 $47.00
12/9/00 347.4 25 13.90 $45.00
12/12/00 207.5 17 12.21 $30.70




------------------
2000 XLT Silver 5.4L SC 4X4 ORP 157"wb Ford Floormats, Mudguards,Cabin Air Filter, lighted emblems, lighted interior door handles(all 4) Chrome Grill (4x2 style), Diamondplate bed caps, Pro-Tech tool box, Air Box mod, Muth Signal Mirrors, Custom Gauge Pod-(water temp, trans temp)
Perma-cool 8" Electric Trans Cooler Fan, (2) Perma-cool 14" electrics

 

Ok, I am going to go out on a limb here. Although I am a "new user", I have been following this board for about a year now. But this MPG thread is getting crazy. Don't people get it by now? Can the superchip improve your mpg? Yes and no! Depends on your truck and driving habits. But why attack Mike T? He has helped hundreds of users. He truly believes in his product and backs it up in every way possiable. If I asked you rand to defend everything you believe in then I bet you would get pissed to. But the fact is that these threads are giving new users a false view of this site. Keep it positive, don't attack products or people. Just show your data and ask others. Maybe Rand your truck needs a tune-up and is slowly losing mpg. Or maybe your make shift home made airbox mod is adversely affecting the superchip! Who knows, who cares. The performance is what you should be looking at. I bought my truck to tow my multiple toys and trailers, not to rave about gas milage. Although I do not have the superchip installed, that is for sure my next purchase (once I get my header problem fixed, help). But really rand be consistent with your findings. If you are going to attack superchip then attack your amsoil that you swear by!!! Check this out straight from there website " AMSOIL Motor Oils reduce friction and drag better than petroleum oils, resulting in significant fuel economy increases. In a recent 1.2 million mile demonstration, AMSOIL Lubricants showed a 4.5% increase in gas mileage. Other tests have shown increases of as much as 15% under certain weather and driving conditions. Yet, because every vehicle is different, as are driving habits and conditions, it is difficult to accurately project an exact increase." YEA RIGHT!! figure that one out! Anyways Mike T is a great asset to this site and I don't believe that he needs to provide you with any evidence on his own. He is doing you a favor by just being here. IF you don't like the chip or the claims, take it out, sell it. Hell I need one. I'll give you 20 bucks and a box of tissues! Happy Hanuka Rand!

------------------
1999 F-150 SC 5.4 4x4, Airraid, Flowmaster and soon will have headers (i hope)

 

Shark99:

WOW! Great data!!! Will be nice to see the same thing using the chip! I hope the outcome shows this so-called increased MPG!


yzcharger:

I have been very consistant! Dont understand why anyone would get a negative view of this site due to my, or anyones, HARD questions regarding a product. Can you?

"Maybe Rand your truck needs a tune-up and is
slowly losing mpg."

Good question, however, I have a NEW engine with 14K on it. Have regularly used BG44K for carbon build-up. Truck runs fine, and my data does NOT show any consistant decrease in mileage! Good question, but thats not the case!

FYI: Mike started the attacks. He attempted to dis-credit my findings by saying I post rubbish and have been doing so... I will DEFEND myself, thank you!

What about the ENGINE thread that talks about someone who's dyno'd this Superchip MANY MANY TIMES and found only 5-8 HP gains??? Thats VERY interesting to me! You? Probably not,your one of the BLIND followers.

---------------------------------------

This is the POWER of the web! Use it to your advantage! Never before have consumers been able to discuss products at length.... Question there abilities....

"giving new users a false view of this site."

The new users that come to this site and say "I'm outa here... There questioning authority... There questioning products..."
Can LEAVE!!! Why do we want them anyway? There SPINELESS people who go through life and accept everything they read and hear! Just like you!

 

consistent? I think not! They why don't you state your findings with amsoil? You wont even touch on that question. I bought this truck for performance NOT MPG. Oh no you have to spen 2 dollars more on gas per fill-up But you are willing to spend an outrageous price on a oil that claims to give up to 15% better mpg and you wont test that? Why are yo so selective to lash out on one product or one person? ? ? ? ? ?

 

everybody looks at thing different. the first thing i notice about rands first numbers is how much the numbers jump around. with the chip they go from 15.43 to 11.55 that to me is quite a difference. i suject his driving habit go from a lot of city to a lot of highway. second thing i notice is that some of the lowest numbers posted were either off road or towing, all done with the chip, so to me those number should be in a different catagory. the numbers i come up with are no chip 13.24 mpg, with chip 13.34 mpg, off-road or towing 11.66 mpg.
rand i believe your way of testing is probably the most real world way of testing, but all things aside, did you really buy the chip for the mpg increase. or where you just hoping that as a by-product, it would help your 5.4, 3.73 gear, 4x4 get a little bit better mpg. seams to me the only way a performance chip would get better mpg is that there is more available h.p at a given r.p.m. so the moter would not have to work as hard to get a vehicle moving.