Rand,
If your MPG is better on a dyno,but not on the street,your foot is to blame.....facts? To get the best mileage would mean not driving my truck and I refuse to do it.
Thanks for the informative thread. No hard feelings,I feel that I know some of you guys now and wouldn't want someone to think bad of me just on an opinion ,,,,,,98

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98 F-150 4.6 Litre XLT2wd Ext. cab
Yokahama AVS/ST's
prarie tan/tan int.
K/N gen.II fipk
custom dual exh/gibson rectangle tips/rear exiting.
color matched snuglid
Superchip!!!
Westin nerfs blk .powdercoat
Clear front corners
Stillen Quad light air dam, sweet!!
Euro taillights
Cobra 75WXST cb w/weather alert
[b]Kenwood cd w/Radio Shack speakers,don't laugh it sounds pretty good
Viper alarm
On the way/wheels,tires, etc..etc.......
doin the monochromatic boogie
on the front end.
Come see my new picturesat www.my-f150.com

officialtomwaits.com
reverendhortonheat.com

WOW,what a cool site!

FENDER GUITARS ROCK!!!

 

I am going on a 300 mile trip in a week or so... I'll drive it one way with the chip and back using the SAME GAS and driving it like my grandmother. I always drive it very easy anyway with my family. Problem is, what if I don't show any gains? Mike T and others are going to cry about the "Adaptive Strategy" and how it takes longer to get optimum fuel usage.... I will disconnect the battery before EACH 300 mile leg! Another thing they will cry about is that I'm using DC area Citgo up and Pennsylvania area Citgo back... The formulations are different... Different energy contents.... This is why a long term log of data helps!

I'll do the test, but I think its too open for arguement and another chance to take a stab at me!

TREADMARKS: We are on the same team! Lets cool our jets here...

 

Ok, here is some real dyno #s that came up on my truck. A place has a dyno near me and I took this tread to them, and a buddy of mine works there. They put the truck on it for free just to see for themselves what the chip does in fact do. Temp 67 deg hum. 72% stayed constant during tests
without the chip....212 hp max
with chip...........234 hp max
milage calculated by draining tank and adding 2 gallons of ammaco premium
with chip..... 16.9 at 54 mph (best mph)
without........15.8 at 51 mph (best mph)

these #s were also with the airforce one fipk. Didn't feel like taking it off and installing the old intake....
So what ever it is worth these are real #s as on my truck...When I can find a scanner I will post the actual sheets.....I am sure that the chip performes different on many different vechicles. I didn't buy my chip for milage but for the gains in performance...As far as real driving day to day, so many factors come into play and would be hard to get a real good data that wouldn't change. For all of you who posted on this topic, you have your ideas and opinions and I will never say one is right or wrong. Here are my #s for my truck and I am sure if others do the same they may be different...

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ecm747x

2001 SUPER CREW XLT, BRIGHT RED
5.4L Triton, automatic 3.55 gears limited slip
tow package
16" tires
side steps
bed extender
ford/duraliner bed liner
60/40 seats
6cd changer
moonroof
sliding rear window

Soon to come Mods...

Adding. Installing different exhaust, not sure which yet. Front grill guard. With light kit


MODS....
1) Lund x-terminator bug shield
2) Super Chip>>>>Well Worth the Money
3) Airforce One F.I.P.K.

[This message has been edited by ecm747x (edited 12-20-2000).]

[This message has been edited by ecm747x (edited 12-20-2000).]

 

Nice work ECM747, Now maybe everyone will read this and see the gains in gas mileage.

 

ecm747x:

Thanks for your input. Finally some REAL input from the other side. Glad to see your seeing some gains.

Not bad... About 1 MPG.

What does this tell us?

If you get the same result on the road, then the Superchip has a more valid point that you can, in fact, see these gains on the dyno and on the road. Just on the dyno does nothing. BUT, there is corroborating evidence of such happenings!

So far, we have:

1.My long term "log" which shows no gains.
2. A few might-have postings
3. One great dyno testing which shows an increase in MPG.
4. A few other "I got no gains either" postings.

Would be interesting to see if using 93 octane would give you the same results on the dyno??

Your dyno results helped establish the fact that its possible to get gains from the chip or higher octane. Considering these are the two variables that changed.

I personally appreciate the time and effort you put-in to help all of us!!! We need more postings like yours and mine!


I can finally start to believe that the Superchip does give SOME this increase.

Question is, why doesn't it do this for all others?

Certainly a lower grade fuel might alter a SMALL 1 MPG gain.

Driving it harder does NOT help.

What about same driving habbits, same fuel, and no gains?

Someone should do some sort of analysis of any increases or decrease simply by switching to 93 octane without the chip. Could this be where the gain comes from? I would think my computer would slightly adjust my timing to compensate for knock? Gains?

 

Hey Rand,

I like your data. It may not be laboratory controlled conditions but, i have enough real world experience and knowledge to be able to make some pretty good educated conclusions. Thanks for all the hard work.

Hey guys, instead of complaining and pointing out all the errors of Rand's tests why don't you run your own tests and posts your results. Thats what i thought, until then chill out.

 

Wow, this was one hell of a lively discussion. Just when I thought I couldn't talk science stuff here (science=nerd) I saw the fifth chapter from my stat 102 class. As my username shows I've learned a thing or two about variables in my workings as a pesticide chemist at UCDavis. When I run an analysis I know that simple experimental error is anywhere from 5 to 10% (and that's in a laboratory (lab=dyno=controlled environment). Did I add the exact same amount of reagent A, did I shake the sample for exactly 3 minutes, etc (you guys get the point..same gas, same driving style, same route, etc). So when I see all these data points about gas milage being 0.5-2 mpg better or worse, I see that as just being part of the experimental error and must be taken as such. And when you think about how much of an uncontrolled environment our "real world driving" is its easy to see how the experimental error can grow to well over 10%. I'm not taking sides on this issue (especially since I don't have a chip yet, hopefully Mike can help with that in the future). I just had to weigh in with my 2 cents. If it can make my truck go stronger and faster and keeping the milage about the same, it's fine with me. Happy Holidays to all. Hope Santa brings you the mod you want!!

 

I have been away a few days and WOW look at these posts. I want to give my 2 cents worth. I will be honest my overall fuel consumption has went up. It is because i love to feel the Firm shifts and that feel comes better with a heavy foot. But i will tell you about a trip i take on a regular basis. I have a Comapany trip that i have to take every few weeks and its 159 miles one way and all interstate. Here is the scoop before the chip i tested my milage round trip twice and the results are as follows 318 miles 19.4 gallons or 16.39 MPG second trip 322 miles 19.9 gallons or 16.18 Mpg. Two weeks later with the superchip 320 miles 17.88 gallons or 17.89 MPG. and just last week 318 miles 17.79 gallons or 17.87 MPG. My company uses a Commercial Fueling station and all fuel came from there. Not sure about the energy content or scientific testing and so forth but it was enough to satisfy me. The trip is all interstate and i used the Cruise as much as possible.I really was working to to get the best i could I think for me my truck and my Gas it has helped but, only when im asking the truck for it. Most of the time i am asking it to do the oposite GET UP AND GO. SO over all my fuel usage has went up on my monthly statement for approx the same miles but i have a smile on my face.Cant blame it on the Chip.
Get this i used to do this trip in my F150 SC with a 5.4 and have got as good as 19MPG but always in the 18's on this same trip. With no superchip.

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2001 Screw
4 X 4
5.4 Liter
Superchiped Custom
Powerdyne Supercharger 8 Psi
JBA Jet Coated Headers
Ravin Z33 S/I D/O the sides
5380lbs 1/4 tank gas
Black/Harvestgold
Lariat, Removed pin stripe and 4X4 stickers and it looks great
Autometer Boost Gauge
Spray X Liner
Westin Nerfs Black
Captains Chairs
Towing Package
6/CD Changer
Moonroof
Sliding Rear
Hood and Window Ventshades


Future plans: Where do we go from here? Suggestions welcomed.
Gears! 4.10??
Yank Converter?

 

This may sound naive, but how does a Dyno estimate the wind drag on a given vehicle at a given speed?? Do they have a chart from the manufacturers with the co-efficient of drag for each vehicle??

Also I coulda swore FORD said the 5.4 put out 260 H.P and i NEVER remember hearing the "F"word used in the same breath as the HP#. No, we use THAT Fword after we see the Dyno #'s - I meant FLYWHEEL. Is HP always understood to mean @the flywheel?? I ALways ASSume they mean @the back wheels. Stupid me or what??

------------------
Ordered on 11/2/00:
VIN'd on 11/13
Built on 12/4
ETA week of 12/25
Merry Christmas to me !
4X4 Lariat
SCrew, Arizona
Beige, 5.4 Liter, Offroad
Pkg, Moonroof, Rear
slider, Capt's seats,
Side steps, Bed xtndr,6
CD, L S D 3.55

Soon: Lid, Line-X Spray-in liner, Intake mods.




[This message has been edited by WhiskeyTango (edited 12-20-2000).]

 

Well after reading some other posts I recently switched to 76 Premium which is 92 octaine, I had been using their 87 octaine previously after my second tank I noticed a 1.5mpg gain. I guess it took the computer at least 400 miles to learn the difference and to adjust for the higher octaine. That is probably why Mike had a problem with Rands results when he is using different brands and grades back to back. I don't know about anyone else but I don't run my truck until the idiot light comes on so when you fill up ther's still some of the other gas in the tank so if you have a 1/4 tank of 87 and fill up with 93 or 92 which is recomended for the Superchip you're probably not getting the full benefit of the chip as these computers are not instant learners they need to compile data. Just my opinion you can take it worth a grain of salt but I think it is worth considering.

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'97 F150 4.6L XL WHITE,FLEETSIDE R/C L/B, LEER SHELL W/FISHING POLE RACK, BED MAT,LIMMITED SLIP,245/75/16 DESERT DOGS ON POLISHED ALUM, WHEELS.
AIRAID, 3" CAT BACK OUT THE SIDE w/MAGNAFLOW MUFFER

 

Wiskeytango,
You ask a good question about the wind resistance> I don't think the dyno operator does any mpg corrections by adding this into the formula.
As far the horsepower rationgs go- most companies(both aftermarket& auto manufacturers) state the #s at the flywheel.The ratings do look a lot more impressive at the flywheel.Also manual transmissions are more efficient and automatics, so more of the hp will make it to the rear wheels on the manual.Ford(or any other maker) would have different ratings for differently equipped trucks with the same motor.This way it is kept simple,at the flywheel. However, when an idividual puts their vehicle on a dyno, the ratings are at the rear wheels. You can calculate(estimate) how much of the power is being eaten up in the tranny and add that back in to get the flywheel ratings. A good way to figure out how much of that power is taken by the tranny is to dyno it (the truck) bone stock and subtract this # from what Ford says the motor is rated at.Am I off in left field or does this make sense?

 

5150PhD:

Glad to have you join us! Let me ask you a question. Can you explain this:

If CAR A gets a FACTUAL 15 MPG CONSISTANTLY in the lab, AND
CAR B gets a FACTUAL 16 MPG in the same lab CONSISTANTLY.

CAR A = CAR B in that they are identical models.

We can say CAR A gets 15 MPG and CAR B gets 16 MPG.

We put both cars on a road test and track mileage for 100 tanks each. Using the same driver and same or very similar driving conditions.

Given all other variables in the equation that might alter the outocome like: Gas type, temps, weather, etc... Would not CAR B show an increase ON AVERAGE over CAR A? For 100 tanks of data, the variations get averaged into the equation and we should still see the average of CAR B approach 1 MPG better as we approach infinite tank/tests?

Hence, 100 tanks should still conclusively show SOME SORT of increase of CAR B over CAR A! Should!

I think I fail to understand what the heck a dyno does for us in this situation? Can you explain?

The REAL WORLD situation only applies.

Thanks again for the input!
-----------------------------

 

Lightningcrashz ,Thanks It does make more sense to rate it at the flywheel.as for the mileage, emc747x's #'s are close to reality so I guess they must be doin somethin right.



[This message has been edited by WhiskeyTango (edited 12-21-2000).]

 

Rand,

Thanks for the kind welcome.

Sure I can see the logic there, given infinite tests you can average out the experimental error. I my mind though, the difference between 15 and 16 is marginal and of course if you do 100 tests you could show that the numbers are statistically different (run ANOVA or some other stat program, usually std dev is good enough for me). Follow?
So back to the Real World....ahh much better. To me a dyno can give you a baseline data point to start from (relatively controlled). So atleast you have some idea of mileage, before you take the truck out and drive it around outside. I think that's way they put "Estimated" miles per gallon on the sticker.
Dyno's have there place, but the data should be taken as that, data (from a dyno in a garage not out running around).

Let me put it in terms of what I do. When I have to analyze a crop for pesticides. The first thing I do is run the method with just reagents/solvents so I have a starting point and know that the methodology works for my compounds of interest. Once I'm satisfied with that, then I grab my field sample (Real World sample) and run the experiment again. That way I have a better idea that my method will work first, before I complicate things with nasty samples. So Dyno=good starting point.
But as you can see I'm deal with real samples, and when I do something on my truck I mash it down myself outside to see if I got what I wanted (plus I don't have a dyno handy).

I hope this puts things into perspective. I'm personnally interested in getting a superchip, so other than the mystery mileage was it worth it?

Happy Holidays

------------------
2000 2W F150 (Flareside Black ExCab) 5.4L with K&N FIPK,Flowmaster Delta 40, Twin dual 3" pipes out the back, Stock Ford Sport 17" Rims

 

Just my numbers sofar.

18.5g 272miles 14.7mpg
17.7g 252.5miles 14.3mpg <trip to racetrack>
19.7g 289.1miles 14.7mpg
***installed Air Force One*****
18.9g 283.2miles 15mpg
19.2g 287.2miles 15mpg
20.1g 311.6miles 15.5mpg <yay me>
***Installed Superchip****
20.3g 294.9miles 14.5mpg <uhh>


Ok now this is a brand new 2000 F150 HD edition..It has just over 3k miles on it. Its nearly to the final tick in the gas gauge and im just at 290miles. I usually fill up at this point and as you can see it usually takes about 20gallons give or take. This would equate to another 14.xx mpg. Now as for my testing.

I drive this truck back and forth to work every day. The trip is 37miles each way. 33 of those miles are on an Interstate Highway. This leaves 8 miles each way of "city" driving. Now im already upset that I am not getting the advertised 16mpg from ford, but now with the superchip? I was curious to see an increase with the Cold Air induction kit as this should increase air flow and hence increase fuel consumption. Dunno..cant explain that. However I did not expect to see a noticeable decrease in gas mileage with the superchip. While I didnt buy it for the gas mileage increase...I didnt really expect to lose what little of my gas mileage I was getting already.

I do notice that the superchips site no longer promotes MPG increases. While it probably wouldnt have changed my mind in purchasing the chip...I do enjoy the other perks of having it. Along with the "your truck may not start" issue. These things should have been put to the attention of the consumer prior to purchase and not afterward.

Just my opinion...everybody has one.



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**2000 F150 Harley Davidson Edition**
**2001 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6R**
**1967 427 Shelby Cobra Replica On the way**
~~Bad Cop, No Doughnut~~