Not Convinced
#16
01-11-2001, 11:30 PM
Former Sponsor
HI SC,
You're absolutely right, I goofed big-time. It started nagging at me during dinner this evening, but I shrugged it off and dismissed the possibility that I had been bone-headed enough to be off by an entire decimal point. A few hours later, I allowed myself to realize that I had posted thousands, not hundreds, and your $450 figure quickly paled compared to the figure of $5000 that flashed to mind, hence me dropping back by this evening to correct my rather obvious error.
I should have said that would take that number of gallons used at that higher price (1500 @ .30 per gallon for premium & 2250 @ .20 a gallon more for premium) delta to cause a $450 increase in annual fuel costs. Obviously if you used 2250 gallons more, you'd have $4K-$5K more in fuel costs, I was an entire decimal point off. Never let it be said that I'm not willing to make a *big* mistake, right in the middle of a discussion about accurate numbers.
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 01-11-2001).]
You're absolutely right, I goofed big-time. It started nagging at me during dinner this evening, but I shrugged it off and dismissed the possibility that I had been bone-headed enough to be off by an entire decimal point. A few hours later, I allowed myself to realize that I had posted thousands, not hundreds, and your $450 figure quickly paled compared to the figure of $5000 that flashed to mind, hence me dropping back by this evening to correct my rather obvious error.
I should have said that would take that number of gallons used at that higher price (1500 @ .30 per gallon for premium & 2250 @ .20 a gallon more for premium) delta to cause a $450 increase in annual fuel costs. Obviously if you used 2250 gallons more, you'd have $4K-$5K more in fuel costs, I was an entire decimal point off. Never let it be said that I'm not willing to make a *big* mistake, right in the middle of a discussion about accurate numbers.
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 01-11-2001).]
#17
01-12-2001, 12:16 AM
Former Sponsor
Hi SCadien,
Well, you know what happens when you make assumptions, so let's just take a look at your numbers, shall we?
One thing you will want to be aware of, is that the infamous graph that Jim has been having fun distorting is rear-wheel, not flywheel, so if you want to make accurate comparisons, you'll want to make sure and compare flywheel numbers to flywheel numbers, and rear-wheel numbers to rear-wheel numbers, just for openers.
As I have stated here several times just recently in response to those with a clear agenda, that graph was placed there long ago by the Webmaster (who was doing us a favor, by the way, this isn't his fault in any way, shape, or form) when he was gracious enough to put together our online ordering system, and I've never paid it much attention until just recently when a few detractors have tried to make it an issue, instead of paying attention to how the vehicle actually runs, which is all that matters, how the vehicle responds to the Superchip. It's an old graph from the very first 1997 4.6 F-150 that ever hit the dyno, before any real R&D was done on these F-150's with the new powertains that were introduced for the 1997 model year, and needs to be updated, which we have just requested from the manufacturer.
If the Superchip added only 5-7 horsepower, even at the rear wheels, we wouldn't see the kinds of comments we get here from the vast majority of those who use the Superchip, 5, 7, or even 12 horsepower can't do that, as anyone with knowledge of real numbers & results of mods on 2-ton+ pickup trucks knows. Few people are ever going to even be able to feel a 5 or 7 horsepower increase in the seat of the pants in these heavy vehicles, it's basic common sense. We don't see those kinds of posts about the FIPK kits, though everyone seems to like them fine including us, you don't see the WOW! and other rave reviews on that part like we all see here about the Superchip from the vast majority who install it; and, the FIPK kits gain more than any 5-7 horsepower (12-14 hp), just to give you a reference point. The point being, the Superchip clearly adds far more than any 5-7 horsepower, or 12 horsepower. Every time anyone has done proper back-to-back drag strip testing, etc., they've always performed, showing clear ET reductions far beyond what any 5,7, or 12 horsepower can ever give, on both manuals and automatics.
With regards to comparing flywheel to rear-wheel numbers, for example, you mention the airbox elimination kit, saying you assume it will deliver a 10-15 horsepower gain. On the 4.6 F-150, it will add 12 hp, and on the 5.4, 14 hp, for either the Airaid brand or the K&N brand FIPK kit. Those are flywheel numbers. They're great kits and work very well we feel, so I'm sure you'll enjoy either one.
With regards to your gasoline cost estimates, in the past 10 years not a single customer of ours has *ever* had anything remotely approaching those kinds of costs, not once, ever. In order for the Superchip to cost you $450 a year in increased fuel costs, you would have to drive it like a race car every time you get behind the wheel for a minimum of 45,000-50,000 miles a year, and have at least a 30 cent+ per gallon cost delta between regular and premium. And of course driving it like that will get you crappy mileage chipped or not. Nobody has ever posted numbers like that here either, in all these years, so I have a hard time believing that you're going to see anything close to those kinds of costs. To see your estimate of $450 more per year in fuel costs, you'd have to burn 150 (note: this has been edited to correct my previous error!) gallons more per year with the Superchip than without it, and you'd have to have a cost delta of at least 30 cents per gallon on top of all that. Or, to use more accurate numbers, which in most places is about a 20 cent per gallon price delta between regular and premium, you'd have to burn 225 more gallons of gasoline with the Superchip than what you'd burn without it. In all fainess, I need to point out that I have had to edit this post to correct a way-off error of an entire decimal place. That has been corrected, with much chagrin.
Having 10 years of experience with this product line, in thousands of vehicles, gives us an excellent knowledge base to work from, far above and beyond the games that certain detractors are playing here. The bottom line is that you'll never know what the Superchip will do unless you try it, as action talks and BS walks, as we can clearly see from what others using it post here. Whether you do that or not is strictly up to you, nobody is twisting your arm. It's not a product for everybody of course, and we respect your decision either way, it's *your* vehicle. As long as you're happy, then we're happy for you.
We wish you all the best whatever you do.
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 01-11-2001).]
Well, you know what happens when you make assumptions, so let's just take a look at your numbers, shall we?
One thing you will want to be aware of, is that the infamous graph that Jim has been having fun distorting is rear-wheel, not flywheel, so if you want to make accurate comparisons, you'll want to make sure and compare flywheel numbers to flywheel numbers, and rear-wheel numbers to rear-wheel numbers, just for openers.
As I have stated here several times just recently in response to those with a clear agenda, that graph was placed there long ago by the Webmaster (who was doing us a favor, by the way, this isn't his fault in any way, shape, or form) when he was gracious enough to put together our online ordering system, and I've never paid it much attention until just recently when a few detractors have tried to make it an issue, instead of paying attention to how the vehicle actually runs, which is all that matters, how the vehicle responds to the Superchip. It's an old graph from the very first 1997 4.6 F-150 that ever hit the dyno, before any real R&D was done on these F-150's with the new powertains that were introduced for the 1997 model year, and needs to be updated, which we have just requested from the manufacturer.
If the Superchip added only 5-7 horsepower, even at the rear wheels, we wouldn't see the kinds of comments we get here from the vast majority of those who use the Superchip, 5, 7, or even 12 horsepower can't do that, as anyone with knowledge of real numbers & results of mods on 2-ton+ pickup trucks knows. Few people are ever going to even be able to feel a 5 or 7 horsepower increase in the seat of the pants in these heavy vehicles, it's basic common sense. We don't see those kinds of posts about the FIPK kits, though everyone seems to like them fine including us, you don't see the WOW! and other rave reviews on that part like we all see here about the Superchip from the vast majority who install it; and, the FIPK kits gain more than any 5-7 horsepower (12-14 hp), just to give you a reference point. The point being, the Superchip clearly adds far more than any 5-7 horsepower, or 12 horsepower. Every time anyone has done proper back-to-back drag strip testing, etc., they've always performed, showing clear ET reductions far beyond what any 5,7, or 12 horsepower can ever give, on both manuals and automatics.
With regards to comparing flywheel to rear-wheel numbers, for example, you mention the airbox elimination kit, saying you assume it will deliver a 10-15 horsepower gain. On the 4.6 F-150, it will add 12 hp, and on the 5.4, 14 hp, for either the Airaid brand or the K&N brand FIPK kit. Those are flywheel numbers. They're great kits and work very well we feel, so I'm sure you'll enjoy either one.
With regards to your gasoline cost estimates, in the past 10 years not a single customer of ours has *ever* had anything remotely approaching those kinds of costs, not once, ever. In order for the Superchip to cost you $450 a year in increased fuel costs, you would have to drive it like a race car every time you get behind the wheel for a minimum of 45,000-50,000 miles a year, and have at least a 30 cent+ per gallon cost delta between regular and premium. And of course driving it like that will get you crappy mileage chipped or not. Nobody has ever posted numbers like that here either, in all these years, so I have a hard time believing that you're going to see anything close to those kinds of costs. To see your estimate of $450 more per year in fuel costs, you'd have to burn 150 (note: this has been edited to correct my previous error!) gallons more per year with the Superchip than without it, and you'd have to have a cost delta of at least 30 cents per gallon on top of all that. Or, to use more accurate numbers, which in most places is about a 20 cent per gallon price delta between regular and premium, you'd have to burn 225 more gallons of gasoline with the Superchip than what you'd burn without it. In all fainess, I need to point out that I have had to edit this post to correct a way-off error of an entire decimal place. That has been corrected, with much chagrin.
Having 10 years of experience with this product line, in thousands of vehicles, gives us an excellent knowledge base to work from, far above and beyond the games that certain detractors are playing here. The bottom line is that you'll never know what the Superchip will do unless you try it, as action talks and BS walks, as we can clearly see from what others using it post here. Whether you do that or not is strictly up to you, nobody is twisting your arm. It's not a product for everybody of course, and we respect your decision either way, it's *your* vehicle. As long as you're happy, then we're happy for you.
We wish you all the best whatever you do.
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 01-11-2001).]
#18
01-12-2001, 12:23 AM
Former Sponsor
Hi jgorka,
If it makes you happy to think you're important enough to have that kind of effect, then you go right on thinking that, and I wish you well.
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
If it makes you happy to think you're important enough to have that kind of effect, then you go right on thinking that, and I wish you well.
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer