Made three pulls on the dyno jet yesterday and the best showed 215.8 hp and 279.8 tq. This was with the superchip. I did one pull without the chip and it was 211.1 hp and 268.5 tq. I disconnected the negative battery post and let the truck cool for about 20 minutes prior to the pull without the chip. I'll post copies of the chart when I go back to work with my scanner there. My friends 00 L showed 346.1 hp and 410.8 tq with the airaid kit and R9 superchip

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1999 F-150 Lariat SC 2 WD, White/Silver, 5.4L, 3.55LS, K & N FIPK, Superchip, underdrive pulley set, Flowmaster dual chamber one in and duels out, six disc CD changer, towing package and captain chairs

 

Also, this was done in 2nd gear. I requested they do it in third, but they declined and stated my tires were not speed rated tires.

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1999 F-150 Lariat SC 2 WD, White/Silver, 5.4L, 3.55LS, K & N FIPK, Superchip, underdrive pulley set, Flowmaster dual chamber one in and duels out, six disc CD changer, towing package and captain chairs

 

HI!... MIKEY88 : I'm not trying to "RAG" on you or anything but your #'s just don't sound right to me. Your "99" 5.4 engine makes 260H.P at the flywheel. It's been proven over and over again that our trucks equipped with the 4R70-W trannys lose 65H.P throught the drivtrain. That works out to 195H.P at the rear wheels. Now your dyno #'s show that you made roughly 216H.P at the rear wheels. That means that all the mods that you have done to your truck only gave you roughly 21H.P? I don't think so! You should be making a LOT more rear wheel H.P than that. With running your truck in 2ND gear on the DYNO you are getting VERY skewed #'s. I would go back and demand that they do the dyno runs in 3RD gear like they are supposed to. The tires that are on my truck are GOODYEAR 275/60-R17's and they are only rated at 118mph. I regularly hit just over 130MPH with my truck and have had no problems with 4 sets of these tire that I have had on my truck. Right now that DYNO run is saying that you are only making about 281H.P at the flywheel. I would figure you are making about 300 - 310H.P at the flywheel right now with your current mods. That would translate into about 235H.P at the rear wheels. Just my honest opinion. Ask MIKE TROYER about your #'s and see if he will give you some feedback.

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NEAL " THE H.P FREAK"
'99' F-150 XLT SPORT, oxford white, reg cab shortbox stepside,5.4, auto, 4.10L.S, captain's chairs, bedliner, GTS carbon fiber headlight covers, ***** CEPECK clear halogen driving lights, GTS slotted tailight covers (painted oxford white), fiberglass smooth wiper cowl (painted OXFORD WHITE), FORD locking lug nuts, tinted windows,true duel exhaust with 2.5 inch mandrel bent pipes and FLOWMASTER 3 chamber mufflers with 3' tailpipes exiting before the rear wheel like the LIGHTNING, HELLWIG rear stabalizer bar, 3 AUTOMETER guage pods, filled with tranny temp, engine temp, and oil preasure AUTOMETER "PHANTOM" guages,custom fabricated air intake trac and huge K/N filter, TPS mod, BELLTECH 2-inch rear drop, custom programed SUPERCHIP, BAUMANN ENGINEERING shift kit (on stage 5 setting)BYPASS CLUTCH CONTROL VALVE/PREASURE REGULATOR VALVE, ASP POWER PULLEYS, custom tig welded and ported JBA "JET BLACK coated headers, twin DERALE 16 INCH ELECTRIC FANS, PERMA COOL 14"/10" tranny cooler with 10" electric fan, custom ported (STOCK) throttle body, custom digital air intake temp sensor, custom ported TB intake elbow, relocated ATS.


FUTURE MODS : FORD SVT 24LB INJECTORS, CUSTOM SUPERCHIP FLIP-CHIP, BBK 75MM THROTTLE BODY, 80MM PRO-M MASS AIR METER, AADI F1 RAM AIR HOOD WITH CUSTOM FABRICATED RAM AIR SET-UP, CAL-TRAC TRACTION BARS, EXTRUDE HONED INTAKE MANIFOLD, SHM CUSTOM FUEL RAILS, SHM "RACE WATER PUMP, 90/10 FRONT CE SHOCKS, 70/30 REAR CE SHOCKS, BELL TECH 2/4 DROP, EXPEDITION CENTER CONSOLE, HARLEY DAVISON F-150, LOWER FRONT VALANCE (painted oxford white) and a KENNE BELL BLOWZILLA SUPERCHARGER.

ESTIMATED H.P TO DATE : 330H.P / 425ft/lbs of torque.

CURRENT PERFORMANCE : 1/4 MILE - 14.53E.T * MPH - 93.00 * 0-60MPH - 5.8 * 1/8 MILE - 9.2 * 60 FT - 2.0

OTHER TOYS : "83" PRO STREET FORD RANGER : 351-w stroked to 408c.i 625H.P (natural), 875H.P with 250H.P "BIG SHOT" N.O.S kit, tubbed (crome moly tubing), 12 point chrome moly roll cage, 4-link with coil overs, MUSTANG II front suspension, c-4 tranny (race prepped), 4000rpm stall converter(8 INCH), 3" chrome moly driveshaft,AUTOMETER guages, 15.50 MICKEY THOMPSON rear tires, 4" M/T front tires, CENTERLINE CON-VO PRO rims, fiberglass hood - bumper - prostock hood scoop, wishbone trac-link, two chrome moly driveshaft loops, 16 gallon RCI fuel cell,etc




[This message has been edited by Neal (edited 01-14-2001).]

 

Neal, I agree. I was pretty sure it suppose to be in third gear and that the numbers would be off this way. I talked to Mike T about it last week and he basically told me they would be off on this dyno setup. What about the tires? Is it possible to do it in 3rd gear with stock tires. I would assume the speeds would be way up there while just spinning the wheels. They did my friends L in third gear just before mine. Does his numbers sound right? HP 346.1 and TQ 410.2

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1999 F-150 Lariat SC 2 WD, White/Silver, 5.4L, 3.55LS, K & N FIPK, Superchip, underdrive pulley set, Flowmaster dual chamber one in and duels out, six disc CD changer, towing package and captain chairs

 

HI!... MIKEY88 : Read my above post again. I was editing it when your were responding to it. Your tires should be fine for the short dyno run. Your buddies LIGHTNING #'s sound right on. The LIGHTNING's make 360H.P at the flywheel and it has been proven over and over again that they lose 69H.P through the drivetrain. They lose a bit more H.P through their drivetrain than the 4R70-W because they have a beefier 4R-100 tranny. So you figure 360H.P (flywheel) + 40H.P for the R9 SUPERCHIP + 14H.P for the AIRAID and you get a figure of 414H.P at the flywheel. Now take off 69H.P for the drivetrain loss and you get 345H.P at the rear wheels. That's within 1.1H.P of his dyno #'s. It seems to me that the dyno you are using is pretty accurate from the #'s that I have seen from the LIGHTNING's #'s. Get yours dynoed in 3RD gear!

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NEAL " THE H.P FREAK"
'99' F-150 XLT SPORT, oxford white, reg cab shortbox stepside,5.4, auto, 4.10L.S, captain's chairs, bedliner, GTS carbon fiber headlight covers, ***** CEPECK clear halogen driving lights, GTS slotted tailight covers (painted oxford white), fiberglass smooth wiper cowl (painted OXFORD WHITE), FORD locking lug nuts, tinted windows,true duel exhaust with 2.5 inch mandrel bent pipes and FLOWMASTER 3 chamber mufflers with 3' tailpipes exiting before the rear wheel like the LIGHTNING, HELLWIG rear stabalizer bar, 3 AUTOMETER guage pods, filled with tranny temp, engine temp, and oil preasure AUTOMETER "PHANTOM" guages,custom fabricated air intake trac and huge K/N filter, TPS mod, BELLTECH 2-inch rear drop, custom programed SUPERCHIP, BAUMANN ENGINEERING shift kit (on stage 5 setting)BYPASS CLUTCH CONTROL VALVE/PREASURE REGULATOR VALVE, ASP POWER PULLEYS, custom tig welded and ported JBA "JET BLACK coated headers, twin DERALE 16 INCH ELECTRIC FANS, PERMA COOL 14"/10" tranny cooler with 10" electric fan, custom ported (STOCK) throttle body, custom digital air intake temp sensor, custom ported TB intake elbow, relocated ATS.


FUTURE MODS : FORD SVT 24LB INJECTORS, CUSTOM SUPERCHIP FLIP-CHIP, BBK 75MM THROTTLE BODY, 80MM PRO-M MASS AIR METER, AADI F1 RAM AIR HOOD WITH CUSTOM FABRICATED RAM AIR SET-UP, CAL-TRAC TRACTION BARS, EXTRUDE HONED INTAKE MANIFOLD, SHM CUSTOM FUEL RAILS, SHM "RACE WATER PUMP, 90/10 FRONT CE SHOCKS, 70/30 REAR CE SHOCKS, BELL TECH 2/4 DROP, EXPEDITION CENTER CONSOLE, HARLEY DAVISON F-150, LOWER FRONT VALANCE (painted oxford white) and a KENNE BELL BLOWZILLA SUPERCHARGER.

ESTIMATED H.P TO DATE : 330H.P / 425ft/lbs of torque.

CURRENT PERFORMANCE : 1/4 MILE - 14.53E.T * MPH - 93.00 * 0-60MPH - 5.8 * 1/8 MILE - 9.2 * 60 FT - 2.0

OTHER TOYS : "83" PRO STREET FORD RANGER : 351-w stroked to 408c.i 625H.P (natural), 875H.P with 250H.P "BIG SHOT" N.O.S kit, tubbed (crome moly tubing), 12 point chrome moly roll cage, 4-link with coil overs, MUSTANG II front suspension, c-4 tranny (race prepped), 4000rpm stall converter(8 INCH), 3" chrome moly driveshaft,AUTOMETER guages, 15.50 MICKEY THOMPSON rear tires, 4" M/T front tires, CENTERLINE CON-VO PRO rims, fiberglass hood - bumper - prostock hood scoop, wishbone trac-link, two chrome moly driveshaft loops, 16 gallon RCI fuel cell,etc

 

Neal, why is it different in third gear? I'm pretty unfamilar with a dynojet.

 

HI!... MIKEY88 : It's because 3RD gear in almost every auto tranny is 1.00 gear ratio. You want to run your truck with a 1 to 1 ratio when on the dyno. To get more info on this subject, talk to MIKE TROYER. He has more experience with dyno machines than I do.

 

Thanks Mike. I've been satisfied with my chip from day one. I actually had not planned on testing w/o the chip, but the guy at the shop wanted to. I figured since he was not charging me I'd let him do it. I have not put my chip back in yet and I feel the difference especially at the low end. I would like to fax you a copy of the dyno sheet just for your fyi. Let me know if you are interested. You can see the difference at different rpm's

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1999 F-150 Lariat SC 2 WD, White/Silver, 5.4L, 3.55LS, K & N FIPK, Superchip, underdrive pulley set, Flowmaster dual chamber one in and duels out, six disc CD changer, towing package and captain chairs

 

Hi Mikey,

Yep, that's about what we expected to see from your trip to the Dynojet, as we discussed earlier in the week over the phone.

What Neal is trying to explain to you is that the runs need to be made in a 1:1 (or as close to it as reasonably possible with any automatic, of course) so that you don't have the numbers thrown off by the additional gear ratio in the lower gears, as you get more torque multiplication in 2nd gear, so the numbers aren't right, though some dyno's can make limited compensations for this, you really need to be in a 1:1 or as close as you can reasonably get to it for best accuracy.

The other thing is that the automatics have to be programmed to stay in 3rd gear for the entire pull so the dyno itself enough time to stabilize and give accurate readings, but most shops can't do this of course, as they're not powertrain programmers in most cases, quite naturally. What happens instead is that they will usually take the vehicle up in 3rd gear to the point at which when they punch it to start the dyno pull, the tranny won't downshift into 2nd gear anymore, but that doesn't allow the dyno enough time to really stabilize in many cases, getting accurate & repeatable dyno pulls is an art & a science.

Now with regards to the Lightning numbers, we really don't know just how accurate that was, simply because we don't know if this was a Lightning that actually made it's 360 SAE Net at the flywheel rating, as most of them don't, they usually fall in the 320-340 hp range at the flywheel bone-stock, though some of them do make their 360 rating, but most don't. As Neal mentioned, if we have a 360 hp Lightning SAE Net stock, then the rear-wheel numbers run about 290-291 hp, for a 69-70 hp loss to the driveline.

What the Superchip adds on the Lightning is one of the best-documented applications ever, and at the flywheel, we're looking at a range of a low of 40 to a max of 46 hp gain, and at the rear wheels anywhere from 32.5 to 36 hp max. There is a range because there is a range to the power output of the Lightning stock, of course. If the Superchip added "only" 40 hp at the flywheel on the Lightning, and we know the Airaid kits add 18 hp pretty consistently, then we have a total gain of about 58 hp at the flywheel, which will give us a total of anywhere from a low of about 378 at the flywheel with those mods to as much as 424 hp at the flywheel; it just depends on how much power that particular Lightning made bone-stock. So we really don't know just how accurate even the Lightning's "after" numbers were, because we don't know what it really made bone-stock.

It's always fun to go to a dyno, you just have to remember that no 2 dyno's are ever going to give the exact same numbers, it's all relative to the dyno's accuracy, was it a climate-controlled dyno test cell, fuel quality & atmospheric conditions at the time of the pulls, etc.

It all gets down to this, Mikey88: do you feel that you got more than a 4 hp gain from the Superchip? I'm sure you probably do, just from the seat-of-the-pants feeling it's given you since installing it. Now of course a "seat-of-the-pants" estimate isn't exactly scientific, but in these heavy trucks, it's pretty easy to tell if you got a real power gain or not, as it takes more than any 4-5 hp to be able to feel in a 2-ton+ pickup truck, all else being equal.

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Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
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