I read somewhere that the E85 is more corrosive, and that FFV vehicles have different fuel tanks and lines to cope with that. I will try to find that article again and post it here

 

Try searching for this. There was a pretty lengthy thread about it a while back.

 

If it is so great of a performance fuel then why does it take MORE to travel LESS. That's just retarded man, no offense. E-85 has less thermal energy than regular gas, makes LESS horsepower than gas and takes more energy to refine than gas.....................

BTW, if your engine is not a higher compressions engine (11.1:1 and higher) than you are not going to experience the gains of any octane over 91 or 93.

Higher octane requires higher compression to maximize the release of it's POTENTIAL energy.

E-85 sucks *****.

 

All:

For those considering using E85 in non FFV engines, DONT!. The 85% ethanol will damage internal engine components that were not designed for its use. You can burn put regular gasoline in FFV engines but you cant put 85% ethanol blends in non-FFV engines.

Also, those of you using anything other than 87program tuning while using E85may be causing more harm than good...why...your engines Air/Fuel Ratio(AFR) is set based upon the Stoichometric combustion values of gasoline, which says that gasoline reaches its maximum combustion in the combustion chamber at an AFR of 12.5:1. However, due to the intense heat generated at that level of combustion and because car companies have to deal with pollution, an AFR of 14.7:1 is used. While Ethanol has an octane rating of 105 you receive less mpg using it because of the flame cycle of the fuel itself...because its basically alchohol, it simply retards the flame cycle of the fuel and produces less BTU (energy) than regular gasoline, thereby requiring more fuel to accomplish the same movement. Typically, vehicles running E85 will see a reduction in mpg of approximately 33-38%, so figure that reduction into your decision before you decide to buy gas. Unless the E85 is at least 33-38% less expensive than regular gas, your wasting money. Also, the power output of an engine depends on the energy content of its fuel, and this bears no simple relationship to the octane rating (many people think that octane=power, but its not that simple).

 

I have been running E-85 out here in Nebraska for a few months now. I drive nearly 100% on city/county roads. I have been seeing about a 25-30 percent decrease in MPG (I averaged approx 15 MPG on 10% ethanol down to about 10.5 MPG on E-85). Unfortunately the E-85 they sell out her in Nebraska isn't 30% cheaper - not by a long shot. Fuel prices yesterday for 10% ethanol (89 octane) were $3.07 and E-85 was selling for $2.59 - that's the best price spread I have seen in a while...48 cents/gal - but unfortunately when you do the math, that's only about 15 percent cheaper.

This morning, 10% ethanol went back down to $2.99 while E-85 prices didn't change.

Grr...I want to buy US ethanol but these kind of prices make it tough!

 

Why in the hell do you want to buy ethanol or e-85? That's just f'n retarded man. It's a scam, its not a quick fix and think about this.....just how much cleaner is ethanol? My 2000 F-150 4.6L came with the damn LEV (low emissions vehicle) sticker on the window. So why do I need to run ethanol. It has nothing to do with dependence on foreign oil either. You are not really saving any money at all! Think about the miles you are losing on a tank of gas and how much more often you will have to fill up.
Geezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. It's not just you buddy, a ton of people are being suckerd by this ethanol bull$h|t
WAKE UP!!!!!!

 

Yeah... E85 is a f'ing joke. I'll keep running my 91 octane and tunes.

 

Malexander52, I appreciate your input...point taken however I still disagree. I take much pride in knowing that I am supporting OUR country rather than the middle east everytime I fill er up with ethanol.

 

Wow. Ever wonder why Ford stopped producing Bi-Fuel vehicles ? Ever wonder why the fuel economy from Ford for FFV's is so much poorer than it could be ? Hmm. Now, a few facts. Ethanol is not caustic (contains no acid) so no special fuel deliver requirements exist. 61,000 miles ago, I reprogrammed my 2004 F150 to run exclusively on E-85. My fuel economy is always within 1 MPG of where it was on 93 Octane Gasoline. How ? By advancing the spark and leaning the AFR, performance is better and fuel economy is just fine. The best part is E-85 costs about $3.00 per gallon. You can make it yourself; but, it is a time consuming process typically not worth the effort.

So why am I considering LPI as well. Because over 2 million acres of corn fields have been washed out in Iowa which will result in a cost increase and because cellulosic ethanol production is in its infancy. Lastly, because the cost for LP is about half the cost of gasoline and 2/3rds the cost of E-85.

Two years ago, I was hammered for this conversion. Today, the facts speak volumes; but, I can see quite a number remain who spread mis-information based upon what Big Oil wants people to believe.

Have fun.

 

Here in Ontario Canada, ethenol blend is exactly the same price as regular gas and even though I run my 2008 F-150 using the flex 5.4, I refuse to use that blend of gas!
Stupid is NOT on my forehead yet...

 

You were hammered for your attitiude and multiple user names but hey that was in the past. If you have facts and data show it, not just anecdotal evidence. In the past your facts were not backed up by reality.
Ethanol may not be caustic but that does not mean it is not damaging. It is a very good solvent.

 

Isn't this interesting. It was because of my attitude. Hmm. Funny, I had the direct impression the experts on this forum wouldn't even open their minds to the possibility of converting an 04 to run on E-85. If I recall the statements were Ethanol was just too "caustic", "just too inefficient", etc. Ever try to talk with people who just close the door without considering the possibilities ? It sure can be frustrating.

As to the facts. Two years ago there were no facts, that was exactly what I was trying to gather. My burning question was could the 04 be converted to run on E-85 and could this be done efficiently.

The stated stoichiometric value for E-85 is 9.765:1. E-85 has an octane rating of 105. E-85 burns at temperatures at least 200 degrees cooler when compared to gasoline. At 12.7:1 (30% lean when compared to stoich) EGT temperatures show 1100 degrees. This remains much cooler when compared to gasoline. What is the result, MPG efficiencies within 5% of 93 octane gasoline. So what happens when the throttle is nailed ? The base fuel table is programmed to add fuel at a rate of 7.9:1.

I do believe we have been through much of this before so perhaps you seek additional proof. In previous posts I have uploaded dyno graphs to show the power gains from running E-85. Please be specific on any additional facts you seek and in what format you would like to see them.

 

Running E-85 can be done in a non Flex fuel motor, FYI.

 

Keep in mind that many of the sealing components in the engine can be damaged by Ethanol concentrations higher than 15%. Not to mention the fuel lines, fuel tank and a few other things. If I remember correctly, it doesn't react well with magnesium or aluminum components either.

Look here for some good information...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85_in_..._engines#Risks

I found it quite enlightening.

In any event, if the components are capable of handling E85, the tuning is easily modifiable with rather impressive results. We've done some E85 fuelled, supercharged race vehicles that have made some really sweet numbers on the dyno. The last one we did was a supercharged Mustang Drift Car that was pumping about 450 HP at 8 Lbs of boost on E85. I'd love to see what a turbo'd vehicle would do but suspect it would respond quite well.

Hope this helps.

Bill

 

I'm fully aware of that Bill but it was probably a good post for the other guys. E-85 can be ran in a car that wasn't designed for it. Now it wouldn't be a good idea to be doing it a lot or even often but it can be done without harm. Next Wednesday I'll be posting some results of it. Justin has a barrel of it and we're going to play with my car with it. Justin actually wrote a tune for another guy, mail order, for E-85 and the guy has been running it for quite a while with no problems. I think he was able to get 15 rwhp more with E-85 on a bolt on car. So we'll see what my car can do with a dyno tune ..