In the Livelink Software for data logging there is a "Module" pull down that has the following options that can be checked on or off:

ECM #1
ECM #2
Rapid Packet Enable

Ford
GM

Does anyone know what they do?

Thanks,
Tyler

 

ECM #1 used for normal logging
ECM #2 used for 6.0 diesel transmission logging
Rapid packet enable the method of logging faster parameters.
For a normal gas truck application you will check the first box and the rapid packet enable box.

 

Thanks!

 

It should also be noted that this is something that is used primarily in the later 4.x versions - we do not need to use this in the versions of LiveLink that we use here at the shop, but then, we have a special database that allows us to see what we need using the 3131 & 3141 versions.

These are nice additional features though for those who want to see certain things and only have access to the current version available on the web site.

Also keep in mind that when using rapid packet, you will reduce the number of parameters you can datalog at one time, as you are using more resources.

Another tip along those regards is to remember that you will see duplicates of a number of parameters, one in lower case, and the other in upper case. The upper case parameters are DMR's, which take significantly more resources but are updated quicker. The lower case parameters are PID's, and take less resources. However, even the PID's are still going to provide somewhere between 80-90 samples per second, an extremely fast rate, and the DMR's do not provide more samples per second - they simply update their data a bit quicker.

That being the case, usually for just "normal" datalogging we will reserve the DMR's for things where you need the most rapid updating possible, like MAF output, load, engine rpms & spark - and then use PID's for just about everything else we can, in order to get as many parameters at one time datalogging reliably - of course, this requires some practice and knowing what data streams are what, so that the data is interpreted correctly for the purpose of making tuning changes. This will also vary depending on a vehicle's model year, type, it's configuration & modifications, etc.

For example, in a returnless fuel system type of vehicle (all 2004 & newer F-150's, late-model Mustangs, etc.), we will have to use a LOT of DMR's to see what the entire fuel system is doing - if a vehicle is here at the shop, even if it is bone stock we will do that, whereas for most that usually is done only in the more heavily modified vehicles, or those with some type of forced induction (supercharging, etc.). But we'll do it on any returnless vehicle that shows up here, as that data allows us to do things to further optimize the vehicle's calibration.

Just some additional trivia, & thanks to chuck for his response as well.

 

Thanks for the reply Mike, I am currently awaiting tunes from you, can't wait.

If you check off "Rapid Packet Enable" can you still log DMR's, if so will they just be at the slower PID Sample Rate?

How can you tell if you are logging too many parameters? Does the data clip?

Is it the computer or X3 that is the limiting factor in the overall data rate possible?

Is there a way to zoom in on the x-axis in the LiveLink Software, currently the zoom only works on the y-axis for me?

Under the "Device" pull down menu, you can select Livewire, X2 or Fuego. I have an X3, what should I select?

I live in MN so it gets really cold here sometimes, does that affect any transmission tuning shift pressures, etc or engine tuning for the initial running of my truck before it gets warmed up? I assume the engine can compensate fairly easy with the IAT and ET sensors, but I was a little concerned with the tranny.

Thanks,
Tyler

 

What are you trying to do with the logs? The best is to export to csv and view in excel.

 

I like the ability to just get a quick look at the data right after I take it without having to spend time exporting to excel, setting up plots and plot limits etc. It's also nice being able to turn different data sets on and off just checking the boxes in the LiveLink software. I am not really doing anything with the data, I just like trying to figure out what is going on in the ECU.

 

Well what do you want to know i am sure i can help you.

 

For instance, I hate the fact that the truck bogs really bad when cruising at part throttle around 40 mph and trying to go to wide open throttle. It was interesting to see the torque drop initially when I went to 100% pedal position with the stock tune, but the 91 SCT tune did not have the torque drop, hence no more bog and a happy Tyler.

Do you know how the ECU derives the ENG_TQ_FLYWHEEL and TQ_AT_ENGINE parameters?

 

The reason why you need a tuner! The stock tune has a 1.5 second hesitation or bog when cruising at part throttle and 40 mph and you go to wide open throttle. The engine torque actually decreases. I find this completely unacceptable and have taken the truck in for TSB 6-19-03 and the reflash fixed it for a couple days but then it came back, I took it to another dealer and they said it was normal. I emailed Ford and they said take it to the dealer. I think it is extremely dangerous when you actually lose power when you might need it to avoid an accident, accelerate from the on-ramp, etc. I'm surprised no one has been in an accident and sued Ford! I really would like to talk to the engineers who tuned the system this way and get there explanation why they used software and electronics to overcome mechanical design flaws. i.e. decrease torque and shift pressure at WOT to save the transmission.

 

Nice work, someone finally showed graphically one of the reasons why stock sucks. You've got a quick right foot.

 

kuhl0040:

All i see is TQ reduction and a shift; That is normal for a stock tune and engineered fine for the million of trucks sold.

And BTW not everything is in lb-ft. LOL at ~450lb-ft of tq.

 

I agree that it might not be in lbf-ft, hence the earlier question asking how they derive the torque parameter. If you could answer that question it would be much appreciated or if you have the correct units I would like to know what they are.

Oh and I don't see my stock 1978 Bronco dropping power for 1.5 seconds while it shifts or my dad's '01 F150 or my Ford Taurus. I highly DISAGREE with you on your statement that it is fine for a million trucks sold. If it's sold on a million trucks they should make enough money to make it right. Oh and if it's fine then why are tons of people complaining about it and buying custom tunes to fix it and why did Ford release a TSB to try and fix it.

Gee lets think about how Ford came up with their high tow ratings. We have
Option A - Design a transmission to handle the power and torque the motor is capable of producing
Option B - Use electronics and software to limit the power and torque to the transmission during shifting

I bet the bean counters at Ford had a little to do with Option B, oh but an engineer has an idea, lets use a tow haul mode that changes how the transmission shifts, nope that would be too expensive, how is corporate supposed to get 100% bonuses this year?

Regards,
Tyler

 

Newton-Meters, The lower value looks right for the LB-FT in your graphing.

Also open loop on the stock tune will take ~3 seconds before it even goes into open loop and on top of that it will slope also, combine that with the trans tq reductions, there is a lot going on at once.

Little do you know ford actually incorporated how the transmissions shifts via TQ also, so if you have a low tq input from the engine the transmission will hold the gear longer so when it does shift into the next gear its higher in the rpm range. Also there is shift hunting function that also says that X amount of TQ for X gear will be "good". So when GM has to push a button, our transmissions pretty much do it itself.

When it comes down to it they want their product to last. The combination we have works fine. If they were to modify something and everyone is happy for 3 years and then all of a sudden trannys start dropping, then they have a big problem. So they leave it and thats why we have aftermarket products. I know were you are coming from i have been there, i just leave it and tune my truck myself for a reason.

 

I think you are correct about the green curve being N-m and the red curve is lbf-ft. I just got confused by why they were labeled with weird names in the software. I think the torque is estimated based on the crankshaft acceleration and that would match the SAE-net torque for the F-150 of 365 lbf-ft?

You are exactly correct with why I am unhappy with how Ford handles the transmission shifting based on the torque input. Ford is always trying to estimate how much torque I want (is needed) based on my input to the pedal and they are not doing a very good job of it. When I am not towing anything I do not want a torque cut for 1.5 seconds making for a terrible delay.

I would much rather have a button that lets me choose normal "acceptable" shifting parameters when I am not towing and a softer tranny tune to prevent transmission reliability issues when I am towing.

I am not sure I agree with the reliability issue, I think they could have easily made a reliable transmission that does not need to cut torque to prevent problems or implement a tow haul mode. They just did not want to spend the money in order to do it. Instead they took a shortcut in order to brag about the large towing numbers they claim and a lot of us are not happy with it.

I surely hope my tranny does not drop after 3 years because I am getting a custom tune to get the transmission to shift correctly. I assume you are tuning your truck to get rid of this issue and I doubt you plan on your transmission dropping after 3 years? I also have a few friends with trucks that have over 150k miles that do not cut torque like my truck does and they have not had any tranny problems!

Toyota just took overtook Ford for total North American Sales, I think I am starting to understand why. Ford is valuing the wrong things and I think they are just starting to realize this hence the major restructuring that has been going on. (aka hire more engineers who actually do things and less managers who sit and contemplate on things to do and then make their best guess at it)

Don't get me wrong, I love my truck and the rest of the engineering that went into it and I am a die hard Ford fan, I am just upset with this one issue.