No Manuals with the XC3 from Troyer??
#16
12-27-2007, 08:56 AM
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#17
12-27-2007, 12:03 PM
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Im starting to drive my truck normal now and top end on the 87 performance tune is nice.
#18
12-27-2007, 12:31 PM
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#19
12-27-2007, 01:04 PM
#20
12-27-2007, 01:58 PM
Former Sponsor
Hi Everyone,
On the subject of the documentation for the X3 unit - as everyone who has received an X3 provided by us knows (or should if they inspected the package), it comes with a slip of paper that tells you how & where to get the user's manual for the X3, a link on the web site where you download the user's manual. Pretty simple.
And of course as always, we also do our highly detailed write up for each individual vehicle owner just as we have done for years for every Troyer Performance custom tuning customer.
Yes, we are getting the tunes out as quickly as possible. You know, sometimes I want to shoot myself, as just before we left for the SEMA show, we were down to about 3.5 weeks - we worked thru doing nothing but tuning getting ready for leaving for SEMA, 7 days a week for many hours every day, not even taking in any more project vehicles, to get to that point - and I knew that what with the holidays and us being gone for a week at SEMA, etc, that time would go up a bit again.
BUT - we also took on two whole new R&D projects with regards to testing some other tuning changes as well that I had not planned to do at that time, but just felt we needed to, and those who have gotten your tunes in the past couple of weeks or so have gotten the benefit of that additional R&D, too.
So we took some time to do some additional testing for something that occurs rarely overall, but when you tune thousands of these trucks like we do, over time you see some things you want to change. For example, on the 2006 and newer trucks, there are a few PCM strategies where, on about 1 out of every 100-200 vehicles, if you insist on using Overdrive at low speeds while going up a grade, it can cause the torque converter to "cycle". It doesn't do it on the stock tuning as much (though we have recreated it on the stock tuning) because there is less torque available compared to in our tunes. Now in this scenario, the engine is turning very low rpms and Overdrive is engaged along with cruise control, and while also going up a grade - something that I don't allow our vehicles to do as Overdrive is intended for use once you are on basically level ground (or downhill) and you are already up to cruising speed, Overdrive is then supposed to be engaged to reduce engine rpms to save fuel - that is what Overdrive is meant for, and only what it is for. But thanks to the automakers on the EPA drive cycle for fuel economy ratings, many people do not understand the real intended purpose of "Overdrive", so it gets used when it shouldn't - and almost all of us do it, including us when we are testing, so it's pretty normal these days, unfortunately.
Anyway, what happens is, you are going up a grade and the engine is turning say, 1700, 1800 - 2000 rpm or less, and you are at light throttle, so it's making maybe 50-60 horsepower or so - you go up the grade, and because the vehicle is heavy and the 30% loss in torque multiplication in Overdrive, the truck loses speed so the cruise control increases throttle and the TQ unlocks. Then the vehicle’s speed goes right back up very quickly thanks to the increased torque we produce on part-throttle in our tuning - and so the TQ locks right back up. But we're still in Overdrive and the TQ is locked, we're still going up the grade and the truck loses a bit of speed again, so once again the cruise control opens up the throttle (or you do it with your right foot) and the TQ unlocks, and once again, as soon as it unlocks the speed is regained, and the TQ locks right back up. And this can, in rare occasions cause what we call torque converter cycling, most often seen when towing light to medium loads.
Because we are virtually always working on ways to improve tuning, we decided right after returning from SEMA to do another R&D project to knock that out without sacrificing certain other changes we make that provide other benefits - I cannot get more detailed as that just teaches the competition. So that was one R&D project, and we also did another to get even more power out of the engine in certain conditions, and we decided we really wanted to get certain things done & tested before I sent out more tunes for certain strategies, and that brought it back up to about 6 weeks or so - well that R&D is done, and I'd also like to thank those who worked with us in doing some testing for us.
We also did another R&D session on another type of MPG-style tune. Now I've never been a big fan of them because I'm really performance-oriented and all about having the most power available possible, but we all do what we have to do - so we worked on a more aggressive MPG-type of tune, designed to get the best possible fuel economy, and made some nice improvements there as well.
Anyway, I thought I'd just respond to a couple of things in this thread, and I will also post another new thread with some of this same info in it so others can see it as well.
We hope everyone had a great holiday!
On the subject of the documentation for the X3 unit - as everyone who has received an X3 provided by us knows (or should if they inspected the package), it comes with a slip of paper that tells you how & where to get the user's manual for the X3, a link on the web site where you download the user's manual. Pretty simple.
And of course as always, we also do our highly detailed write up for each individual vehicle owner just as we have done for years for every Troyer Performance custom tuning customer.Yes, we are getting the tunes out as quickly as possible. You know, sometimes I want to shoot myself, as just before we left for the SEMA show, we were down to about 3.5 weeks - we worked thru doing nothing but tuning getting ready for leaving for SEMA, 7 days a week for many hours every day, not even taking in any more project vehicles, to get to that point - and I knew that what with the holidays and us being gone for a week at SEMA, etc, that time would go up a bit again.
BUT - we also took on two whole new R&D projects with regards to testing some other tuning changes as well that I had not planned to do at that time, but just felt we needed to, and those who have gotten your tunes in the past couple of weeks or so have gotten the benefit of that additional R&D, too.
So we took some time to do some additional testing for something that occurs rarely overall, but when you tune thousands of these trucks like we do, over time you see some things you want to change. For example, on the 2006 and newer trucks, there are a few PCM strategies where, on about 1 out of every 100-200 vehicles, if you insist on using Overdrive at low speeds while going up a grade, it can cause the torque converter to "cycle". It doesn't do it on the stock tuning as much (though we have recreated it on the stock tuning) because there is less torque available compared to in our tunes. Now in this scenario, the engine is turning very low rpms and Overdrive is engaged along with cruise control, and while also going up a grade - something that I don't allow our vehicles to do as Overdrive is intended for use once you are on basically level ground (or downhill) and you are already up to cruising speed, Overdrive is then supposed to be engaged to reduce engine rpms to save fuel - that is what Overdrive is meant for, and only what it is for. But thanks to the automakers on the EPA drive cycle for fuel economy ratings, many people do not understand the real intended purpose of "Overdrive", so it gets used when it shouldn't - and almost all of us do it, including us when we are testing, so it's pretty normal these days, unfortunately.
Anyway, what happens is, you are going up a grade and the engine is turning say, 1700, 1800 - 2000 rpm or less, and you are at light throttle, so it's making maybe 50-60 horsepower or so - you go up the grade, and because the vehicle is heavy and the 30% loss in torque multiplication in Overdrive, the truck loses speed so the cruise control increases throttle and the TQ unlocks. Then the vehicle’s speed goes right back up very quickly thanks to the increased torque we produce on part-throttle in our tuning - and so the TQ locks right back up. But we're still in Overdrive and the TQ is locked, we're still going up the grade and the truck loses a bit of speed again, so once again the cruise control opens up the throttle (or you do it with your right foot) and the TQ unlocks, and once again, as soon as it unlocks the speed is regained, and the TQ locks right back up. And this can, in rare occasions cause what we call torque converter cycling, most often seen when towing light to medium loads.
Because we are virtually always working on ways to improve tuning, we decided right after returning from SEMA to do another R&D project to knock that out without sacrificing certain other changes we make that provide other benefits - I cannot get more detailed as that just teaches the competition. So that was one R&D project, and we also did another to get even more power out of the engine in certain conditions, and we decided we really wanted to get certain things done & tested before I sent out more tunes for certain strategies, and that brought it back up to about 6 weeks or so - well that R&D is done, and I'd also like to thank those who worked with us in doing some testing for us.
We also did another R&D session on another type of MPG-style tune. Now I've never been a big fan of them because I'm really performance-oriented and all about having the most power available possible, but we all do what we have to do - so we worked on a more aggressive MPG-type of tune, designed to get the best possible fuel economy, and made some nice improvements there as well.
Anyway, I thought I'd just respond to a couple of things in this thread, and I will also post another new thread with some of this same info in it so others can see it as well.
We hope everyone had a great holiday!
#22
12-27-2007, 02:25 PM
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Hey Mike,
Thanks for the post! It's great hearing from you. I appreciate everything you do for all of us on the site. I am one of those with a 2006. So? If it means waiting a bit longer for my tunes, so be it! I'd rather you do the R&D in order to make our tunes the very best possible instead of getting them out the door just for the sake of backup. I also wanted to let you know that I appreciate you putting me at ease with the whole XCal 3 user manual deal. I was just a bit nervous having a new tuner, but not sure on how to use all of the features.
Thanks for the post! It's great hearing from you. I appreciate everything you do for all of us on the site. I am one of those with a 2006. So? If it means waiting a bit longer for my tunes, so be it! I'd rather you do the R&D in order to make our tunes the very best possible instead of getting them out the door just for the sake of backup. I also wanted to let you know that I appreciate you putting me at ease with the whole XCal 3 user manual deal. I was just a bit nervous having a new tuner, but not sure on how to use all of the features.
#23
12-27-2007, 02:44 PM
Former Sponsor
Thanks, it's great to be back, & thanks very much for the kudos, patience & your business, as it is always **YOU** who make what we do possible!
On the question of can you get better fuel mileage by using a light foot on the 87 octane tune - yes, that is a good way to spend less money for gasoline on these trucks, I agree. Now the absolute best fuel economy is had on the premium gas tunes, thanks to the additional spark that can be used with good quality high octane fuel. Of course premium costs more, but usually you can offset that cost pretty easily with the improvement in fuel mileage.
Actually, the higher that gas prices go, the more sense it makes to use our premium gas tuning, as the cost delta between regular & premium stays at it's average 20 cent per gallon delta even when gas is at $5 a gallon! So as prices go higher and higher, that 20 cent per gallon delta becomes a smaller & smaller percentage of the cost per gallon, so it takes less & less to offset that cost with a slight improvement in fuel mileage.
Now of course, we need to always use the best quality fuels and not just the cheapest cost per gallon fuels, as we talk about in our docs we send out to all of our Troyer Performance custom tuning vehicle owners, the actual energy content of the fuel (BTU's per gallon) is key to fuel mileage as well as actual power, too. Many of you who have been here on our dyno have seen this first hand.
Also, for those who need the best possible fuel mileage because you drive a lot of miles or have long commutes, etc., you can always order an MPG-type of tune, either as one of your 3 custom tunes, or you can simply order an extra tune and keep all your tunes stored on your PC's hard drive - that way you can have 10 different tunes if you like, and just overwrite the tunes in the tuner and use them whenever you want, as you can do that an unlimited number of times. We have some people we have done 20+ different types of tunes for, like a performance, towing and an mpg tune for every level of octane, and then drag race tunes for even higher octane, you name it.
I mention the MPG-specific type of tune only because we just wrapped up another R&D project on our MPG tunes, and are getting some better fuel mileage gains in these trucks as a result - now they do not have quite as sharp performance in all situations compared to our performance tunes of course, but they still feel better than stock and deliver better fuel mileage, for those who would like to have a tune like that - just FYI.
Great seeing you guys!!!
On the question of can you get better fuel mileage by using a light foot on the 87 octane tune - yes, that is a good way to spend less money for gasoline on these trucks, I agree. Now the absolute best fuel economy is had on the premium gas tunes, thanks to the additional spark that can be used with good quality high octane fuel. Of course premium costs more, but usually you can offset that cost pretty easily with the improvement in fuel mileage.
Actually, the higher that gas prices go, the more sense it makes to use our premium gas tuning, as the cost delta between regular & premium stays at it's average 20 cent per gallon delta even when gas is at $5 a gallon! So as prices go higher and higher, that 20 cent per gallon delta becomes a smaller & smaller percentage of the cost per gallon, so it takes less & less to offset that cost with a slight improvement in fuel mileage.
Now of course, we need to always use the best quality fuels and not just the cheapest cost per gallon fuels, as we talk about in our docs we send out to all of our Troyer Performance custom tuning vehicle owners, the actual energy content of the fuel (BTU's per gallon) is key to fuel mileage as well as actual power, too. Many of you who have been here on our dyno have seen this first hand.
Also, for those who need the best possible fuel mileage because you drive a lot of miles or have long commutes, etc., you can always order an MPG-type of tune, either as one of your 3 custom tunes, or you can simply order an extra tune and keep all your tunes stored on your PC's hard drive - that way you can have 10 different tunes if you like, and just overwrite the tunes in the tuner and use them whenever you want, as you can do that an unlimited number of times. We have some people we have done 20+ different types of tunes for, like a performance, towing and an mpg tune for every level of octane, and then drag race tunes for even higher octane, you name it.
I mention the MPG-specific type of tune only because we just wrapped up another R&D project on our MPG tunes, and are getting some better fuel mileage gains in these trucks as a result - now they do not have quite as sharp performance in all situations compared to our performance tunes of course, but they still feel better than stock and deliver better fuel mileage, for those who would like to have a tune like that - just FYI.
Great seeing you guys!!!
#24
12-27-2007, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Superchips_Distributor
Hi Everyone,
For example, on the 2006 and newer trucks, there are a few PCM strategies where, on about 1 out of every 100-200 vehicles, if you insist on using Overdrive at low speeds while going up a grade, it can cause the torque converter to "cycle". It doesn't do it on the stock tuning as much (though we have recreated it on the stock tuning) because there is less torque available compared to in our tunes. Now in this scenario, the engine is turning very low rpms and Overdrive is engaged along with cruise control, and while also going up a grade - something that I don't allow our vehicles to do as Overdrive is intended for use once you are on basically level ground (or downhill) and you are already up to cruising speed, Overdrive is then supposed to be engaged to reduce engine rpms to save fuel - that is what Overdrive is meant for, and only what it is for. But thanks to the automakers on the EPA drive cycle for fuel economy ratings, many people do not understand the real intended purpose of "Overdrive", so it gets used when it shouldn't - and almost all of us do it, including us when we are testing, so it's pretty normal these days, unfortunately.
Anyway, what happens is, you are going up a grade and the engine is turning say, 1700, 1800 - 2000 rpm or less, and you are at light throttle, so it's making maybe 50-60 horsepower or so - you go up the grade, and because the vehicle is heavy and the 30% loss in torque multiplication in Overdrive, the truck loses speed so the cruise control increases throttle and the TQ unlocks. Then the vehicle’s speed goes right back up very quickly thanks to the increased torque we produce on part-throttle in our tuning - and so the TQ locks right back up. But we're still in Overdrive and the TQ is locked, we're still going up the grade and the truck loses a bit of speed again, so once again the cruise control opens up the throttle (or you do it with your right foot) and the TQ unlocks, and once again, as soon as it unlocks the speed is regained, and the TQ locks right back up. And this can, in rare occasions cause what we call torque converter cycling, most often seen when towing light to medium loads.
For example, on the 2006 and newer trucks, there are a few PCM strategies where, on about 1 out of every 100-200 vehicles, if you insist on using Overdrive at low speeds while going up a grade, it can cause the torque converter to "cycle". It doesn't do it on the stock tuning as much (though we have recreated it on the stock tuning) because there is less torque available compared to in our tunes. Now in this scenario, the engine is turning very low rpms and Overdrive is engaged along with cruise control, and while also going up a grade - something that I don't allow our vehicles to do as Overdrive is intended for use once you are on basically level ground (or downhill) and you are already up to cruising speed, Overdrive is then supposed to be engaged to reduce engine rpms to save fuel - that is what Overdrive is meant for, and only what it is for. But thanks to the automakers on the EPA drive cycle for fuel economy ratings, many people do not understand the real intended purpose of "Overdrive", so it gets used when it shouldn't - and almost all of us do it, including us when we are testing, so it's pretty normal these days, unfortunately.
Anyway, what happens is, you are going up a grade and the engine is turning say, 1700, 1800 - 2000 rpm or less, and you are at light throttle, so it's making maybe 50-60 horsepower or so - you go up the grade, and because the vehicle is heavy and the 30% loss in torque multiplication in Overdrive, the truck loses speed so the cruise control increases throttle and the TQ unlocks. Then the vehicle’s speed goes right back up very quickly thanks to the increased torque we produce on part-throttle in our tuning - and so the TQ locks right back up. But we're still in Overdrive and the TQ is locked, we're still going up the grade and the truck loses a bit of speed again, so once again the cruise control opens up the throttle (or you do it with your right foot) and the TQ unlocks, and once again, as soon as it unlocks the speed is regained, and the TQ locks right back up. And this can, in rare occasions cause what we call torque converter cycling, most often seen when towing light to medium loads.
Mike,
Got my tunes about mid year 2006 (5.4 4X4 scab) and do a lot of mountain driving between elevation 5000 and 7000 feet. I always turn off overdrive and when driving at these elevations even if level road when accelerating from a cruising speed the truck feels like it is fuel or oxygen starved and then goes WOT after a lag of no increase in acceleration. It is hard to describe what is actually happening but there is no throttle response and then WOT which makes mountain driving interesting. Any thoughts on what might be happening here? I wish I could datalog as this would probably help.
The stock tune actually performs much better at elevation and does not have this issue.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated as I love the tunes under all other circumstances.
Steve
#25
12-27-2007, 04:23 PM
HHMM....interesting. How much fuel savings are we talking from 93 Performance to 93 mpg just cruising on the highway at 80 for 6 hours? I like the idea of getting more MPG but I also want all the power I can have when driving on the highway for passing. I would imagine the mpg difference between the two would be negligable.
And the other side is how much power am I losing by going to the 93 mpg vs. 93 performance?
And the other side is how much power am I losing by going to the 93 mpg vs. 93 performance?
Last edited by JeremyGSU; 12-27-2007 at 04:38 PM.
#27
12-27-2007, 05:31 PM
Former Sponsor
Hi Steve,
I'm sorry to hear you are having an issue, and I'll be happy to help you with it - however, as all of our customers know because it's pointed out in our very thorough documentation - and is also reminded to everyone in bold red typeface at the top of the page every time anyone makes a post - for Tech Support (or any matter that is between vendor & customer), you will need to call us - that cannot be done here or anywhere else online, or via email.
So please, forgive me, but I have to ask you to please follow the instructions we provide on how to get Tech Support and call us and we'll be happy to go over this with you, ok?
Thanks Steve, and I look forward to speaking with you, as this really sounds odd and I'd like to get to the bottom of it.
I'm sorry to hear you are having an issue, and I'll be happy to help you with it - however, as all of our customers know because it's pointed out in our very thorough documentation - and is also reminded to everyone in bold red typeface at the top of the page every time anyone makes a post - for Tech Support (or any matter that is between vendor & customer), you will need to call us - that cannot be done here or anywhere else online, or via email.
So please, forgive me, but I have to ask you to please follow the instructions we provide on how to get Tech Support and call us and we'll be happy to go over this with you, ok?
Thanks Steve, and I look forward to speaking with you, as this really sounds odd and I'd like to get to the bottom of it.
Last edited by Superchips_Distributor; 12-27-2007 at 05:57 PM.
#28
12-27-2007, 05:53 PM
Former Sponsor
HI Matt,
It's against the rules for us to post pricing here , sorry about that - so I have to please ask you to call us, just as I hated to, but has to ask Steve (the nice gentleman in the post above asking about an aspect of his tuning) to call us for his Tech Support.
So for that info, if you wouldn't mind please give us a quick call and we'll be happy to go over that with you, OK?
Thanks a lot Matt,
It's against the rules for us to post pricing here , sorry about that - so I have to please ask you to call us, just as I hated to, but has to ask Steve (the nice gentleman in the post above asking about an aspect of his tuning) to call us for his Tech Support.
So for that info, if you wouldn't mind please give us a quick call and we'll be happy to go over that with you, OK?
Thanks a lot Matt,
#29
12-27-2007, 06:25 PM
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Ok...Ill give you guys a call, I just hate to bother you guys again becasue I know your busy. I still havent been able to talk to you which is kinda dissapointing because I would have liked to talked with you about my truck but everyone on your staff is very knowledgable and helpful...hopefuly one day we can talk though!
Later Mike!
Later Mike!
