Okay, I've searched through the forums and haven't been able to decide from past posts alone. I know Troyer and Bill are both good at what they do, but I'm leaning towards Bill and the Gryphon at the moment. I'm planning on ordering tomorrow, so I figure I make sure before I pull the trigger.

From the looks of it, people are having to wait 3+ months for the Troyer tunes, and that is somewhat unacceptable for me. On the other hand, how fast is Bills turnout rate for custom tunes?

When comparing the two tuners, how does the Gryphon compare? I see that it has more gauges to look at with the screen, and this seems like it would be a bit more useful than the X3. Is the Gryphon user friendly? Can I set it and forget it?

Are performance gains equal between the two programmers?

 

What about VMP Tuning? Basically the same thing as Troyer, just faster.

www.VMPTuning.com

 

I don't think you're gonna feel a "seat of the pants" difference between these tunners. I've heard nothing but positive feedback on all three. My advice to you is give them a call. Talk to them. You usually get a good sense or "feeling" about that person after talking with them. I know I did. I had the same questions as you, but after talking to all three I knew EXACTLY who I was going with.

 

The only .02 I can chip in is that the Edge, which is what the Gryphon is, seems to be from every site I've seen about $100 or more than the Xcal 2 or 3.

The gauges are nice to have tho.. Not sure they're a C-note nicer ... LOL

I don't think you can go wrong either way though.

And just for the hell of it I'll ask this.. Bill, can you write tunes for the SCT devices? Would save folks who don't need or want to pay for the display a bit of cash.

 

If that was the case why wouldn't those people just got to VMP or Troyer?

 

I just did a very quick internet search on Xcal. Found one source selling it at the reduced price of $379. The list price is $479. This is what it costs you to get one with "stock" tunes.

The Gryphon, for f150s with gas engines is $495, but that includes a voucher for 3 CUSTOM tunes worth $50 each. So, the real cost of the bare-bones device is $345, which is less than the "discounted" cost of the Xcal.

Justin and Mike charge $50 for each of their tunes I believe. The Xcal doesn't have gauges. The Gryphon does.

So, which is the better buy?

- Jack

 

Justin includs three tunes with the purchase of a Xcal2 which is $395. The Xcal2 can be used on other Ford vehicles as well as a ODB2 scanner tool. I think it's a damn good value. I've used my Xcal2 on two vehicles already.

 

And, I can see why you would like Justin. Thanks, Thumper! Makes perfect sense to me.

As I said, my "search" was pretty quick.

- Jack

 

If you want gauges go with the Edge/Gryphon or the Livewire (by SCT) if not go X3 or X2, I'd suggest calling up a couple tuners and talking with them. All of them will do a good job for you, there's no way you could ever tell the 5 Hp that probably separates all of these guys. Since wait time is a big concern I would say you probably don't have to call a certain shop, but give the others listed a call and see what they can do for you

 

With tunes I'm guessing drivability (tranny/shift tuning, power curves, etc) not just top end HP on a dyno make all the difference. Who can tune the best, who knows, I'm not sure anybody has driven a bill tune, a vmp tune, and a troyer tune back to back to tell the differences.

I just jumped in with Bill because of his presence here and his accesability for any needs that come up. The only downfall is not being able to find anybody locally with editing software for gryphon tunes...dyno shops with sct software are pretty common and accessable.

 

ONE04FX4, I always forget his screen name, but he had a Troyer tune and ended up switching to a VMP tune. He had better results with the VMP tune.

 

Now we just need to talk him into tryin a bill tune

That is one upside with the sct you can get troyer or vmp and then for 50 bucks try the other vendors tune on the same device.

 

I like my tune from Bill, his service is great, and the turn around is quick.

 

X2 on that!

- Jack

 

.. and the fact that you can re-use the unit. The Gryphon/Edge is going to be limited to only the F150s. I paid $400 for the Xcal2 from Justin and it certainly has paid off since I've used it for two vehicles. So I basically spent $200 to get each vehicle tuned !!