woah. check this out
#121
02-14-2010, 09:45 AM
Senior Member
Hello Timothy. How are you this evening?
I am very sorry I was not clearer and misunderstood your intent. Please accept my apologies. Thanks.
On to your questions then. I believe it was proven long ago that there is very little benefit in 'higher flow' filters. Trueflow once had a test & chart posted that demonstrated that there were zero gains over stock filtration, from their own filters, K&N, and a number of others. It's key to note that they were candid about their own products. Says a lot. That stuff is no longer there, unfortunately.
Having said that, we come to filtration effectiveness itself. The OEM paper filter does a good job. For most, the stock unit is fine, a nice balance of particle capture versus flow. K&N's may flow a little better, but can let in more stuff. Again - it depends upon your environment - clean urban versus heavy industrial/rural/offroad, etc, for example.
Now as for CAI flow - once again, lots to consider. The OEM is by no means the highest flowing, but does do a decent job in the 04-08's, and even a better one in the 09+ models. A Balance once more of low-end torque and adequate top-end, low noise, low costs, ease of production (injection-molded/spun plastic). It is also very quiet (3 Helmholtz chambers on the 04-08's). And of course, cost constraints. As I said - a balance.
No question that you could do better, by choosing wisely. But not a big enough difference in the ares a truck really needs - at the rpm's & loads a truck lives in every day.
It helps to talk to tuner folks who have done comprehensive testing on some of these aftermarket CAI's, to get sense of what potential is possible, if tuning is required, and any other info that only these folks would have an inside track on.
Bottom line - if I had $400 to spend it would be on a custom tuner first.
I hope this meager info helps you little bit.
Tanks & cheers
MGD v2.0
The kinder, gentler upgrade
I am very sorry I was not clearer and misunderstood your intent. Please accept my apologies. Thanks.
On to your questions then. I believe it was proven long ago that there is very little benefit in 'higher flow' filters. Trueflow once had a test & chart posted that demonstrated that there were zero gains over stock filtration, from their own filters, K&N, and a number of others. It's key to note that they were candid about their own products. Says a lot. That stuff is no longer there, unfortunately.
Having said that, we come to filtration effectiveness itself. The OEM paper filter does a good job. For most, the stock unit is fine, a nice balance of particle capture versus flow. K&N's may flow a little better, but can let in more stuff. Again - it depends upon your environment - clean urban versus heavy industrial/rural/offroad, etc, for example.
Now as for CAI flow - once again, lots to consider. The OEM is by no means the highest flowing, but does do a decent job in the 04-08's, and even a better one in the 09+ models. A Balance once more of low-end torque and adequate top-end, low noise, low costs, ease of production (injection-molded/spun plastic). It is also very quiet (3 Helmholtz chambers on the 04-08's). And of course, cost constraints. As I said - a balance.
No question that you could do better, by choosing wisely. But not a big enough difference in the ares a truck really needs - at the rpm's & loads a truck lives in every day.
It helps to talk to tuner folks who have done comprehensive testing on some of these aftermarket CAI's, to get sense of what potential is possible, if tuning is required, and any other info that only these folks would have an inside track on.
Bottom line - if I had $400 to spend it would be on a custom tuner first.
I hope this meager info helps you little bit.
Tanks & cheers
MGD v2.0
The kinder, gentler upgrade
#122
02-14-2010, 09:55 AM
Senior Member
i don't know about the f150's, haven't used it on them. i put it on my wifes 2001 pontiac grand am gt and it dropped from a 10.77 to a 10.70(1/8th mile) i never had any adverse effects from it and no real noticeable change in mpg. but it does work in the power department( not drastic but its there) i had it on the car until we sold it and the car had 147k on it. it does work but not what they are saying. snake oil might be a far leap, but definetly not worth a million horseys like their claiming. check your plugs/o2 sensors every so often to make sure with the extra fuel that its not fouling them out. other than that have fun
#124
02-15-2010, 11:23 AM
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#126
02-15-2010, 01:21 PM
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well I am going to throw my hat in the ring here, yes I made fun of these "chips" as well, but I am allowed.
I owned two, one a 3.1L grand am and one for a 00 Mustang V-6, both had CAI both had "chips" added after the CAI, and yes you can tell a small power gain on those two.
I ran the grand am with it for 2-3 years, had 110K on it, to 140K no ill effects, no dyno paper to prove it, just my gut feelings.
I changed a bad head gasket, 3.1's are bad for that anyway, a water pump, two wrecks, and a problem with a valve that was stuck open ( installer error ) due to a loose bolt.
My first car, swapped from regular to syn oils, lucas, octane boost and so on, basically that car went through hell, and no ill effect, still running strong at 180K now, still has the CAI and "chip" as far as I know, but the muffler was changed, just pipe, with a SI/SO round can muffler.
The mustang, how I miss it so, but no ill effect for 20K miles.
would I put one on my current truck?
no, not because I think it will destroy it, or something, but because my spending limit is higher and I got a gryphon and such.
I won't say use it, nor will I say do not use it.
I personally had good luck from the ones I have used, and when I got mine, they didn't have a fancy black box, just a resistor taped to a paper with install directions.
unless I see daily written proof of a test made over a year ( or until a failure that can be directly related to the "chip" ) I won't say they are stupid, lies on the gains for sure, but I do not think they are as harmful as some may think.
The PCM is smart enough to not let it start detonating, and if it does it will back its self down, you all claim its so advance and smart then turn around and say it would allow its self to detonate and what have you?
Regardless of what the IAT/MAF/02 sensors say, the engine won't let it detonate constantly, it will back off OR go into limp mode.
Thats why they have many sensors that check on the truck, even if one is completely out of whack the others can keep it in check, and it may or may not ever hurt anything.
Hell, who knows, a person could be running around with a faulty IAT sensor right now, not know it and it could be reading anywhere from 10-90F
I owned two, one a 3.1L grand am and one for a 00 Mustang V-6, both had CAI both had "chips" added after the CAI, and yes you can tell a small power gain on those two.
I ran the grand am with it for 2-3 years, had 110K on it, to 140K no ill effects, no dyno paper to prove it, just my gut feelings.
I changed a bad head gasket, 3.1's are bad for that anyway, a water pump, two wrecks, and a problem with a valve that was stuck open ( installer error ) due to a loose bolt.
My first car, swapped from regular to syn oils, lucas, octane boost and so on, basically that car went through hell, and no ill effect, still running strong at 180K now, still has the CAI and "chip" as far as I know, but the muffler was changed, just pipe, with a SI/SO round can muffler.
The mustang, how I miss it so, but no ill effect for 20K miles.
would I put one on my current truck?
no, not because I think it will destroy it, or something, but because my spending limit is higher and I got a gryphon and such.
I won't say use it, nor will I say do not use it.
I personally had good luck from the ones I have used, and when I got mine, they didn't have a fancy black box, just a resistor taped to a paper with install directions.
unless I see daily written proof of a test made over a year ( or until a failure that can be directly related to the "chip" ) I won't say they are stupid, lies on the gains for sure, but I do not think they are as harmful as some may think.
The PCM is smart enough to not let it start detonating, and if it does it will back its self down, you all claim its so advance and smart then turn around and say it would allow its self to detonate and what have you?
Regardless of what the IAT/MAF/02 sensors say, the engine won't let it detonate constantly, it will back off OR go into limp mode.
Thats why they have many sensors that check on the truck, even if one is completely out of whack the others can keep it in check, and it may or may not ever hurt anything.
Hell, who knows, a person could be running around with a faulty IAT sensor right now, not know it and it could be reading anywhere from 10-90F
#129
02-15-2010, 03:18 PM
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Wow this thread really takes the cake and I think it should be nominated for thread of the year.
I am such a fool for spending $550 for my Xcal 3 and custom tunes from Troyer performance when I could have had the same performance from a 25$ chip from E-bay thanks for showing me the error of my ways.
Do they make one for my 6.0 Powerstroke I want to make 800 HP at the wheels and get 75 MPG as well as make lots of black smoke to so I can look cool and smoke people out.
I am such a fool for spending $550 for my Xcal 3 and custom tunes from Troyer performance when I could have had the same performance from a 25$ chip from E-bay thanks for showing me the error of my ways.
Do they make one for my 6.0 Powerstroke I want to make 800 HP at the wheels and get 75 MPG as well as make lots of black smoke to so I can look cool and smoke people out.
#130
02-15-2010, 03:30 PM
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#131
02-15-2010, 03:31 PM
Wow this thread really takes the cake and I think it should be nominated for thread of the year.
I am such a fool for spending $550 for my Xcal 3 and custom tunes from Troyer performance when I could have had the same performance from a 25$ chip from E-bay thanks for showing me the error of my ways.
Do they make one for my 6.0 Powerstroke I want to make 800 HP at the wheels and get 75 MPG as well as make lots of black smoke to so I can look cool and smoke people out.
I am such a fool for spending $550 for my Xcal 3 and custom tunes from Troyer performance when I could have had the same performance from a 25$ chip from E-bay thanks for showing me the error of my ways.
Do they make one for my 6.0 Powerstroke I want to make 800 HP at the wheels and get 75 MPG as well as make lots of black smoke to so I can look cool and smoke people out.
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Jim
Jim
#132
02-15-2010, 03:41 PM
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Thanks for the advice I will try it and get back with everyone but I am not going to spend the money for the dyno runs and I think I am going to take the intake off and run a open turbo because I heard it will make an extra 100HP that way and I heard it whistles more.
#133
02-15-2010, 03:45 PM
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I feel there is a lot of smart pants remarks and reply's in this thread, I don;t make my living scamming people, but many do, see the claims made on these chips and the pioneer DVD player "hacks" so some people are biting and not knowing anything at all.
Don't get me wrong, everything I own, I worked hard for, but if I could take the easy way selling junk and using misleading item descriptions, I would.
Even when you get down to it, these people are working a pretty much 100% profit margin, one of those costs like $5 to make, and can be made on order.