After reading many of threads discussing the risk of using a tuner in regards to denial of warranty if problems arise, there seems to be no clear consensus.

Would't it be foolproof to just take out your stock PCM/ECU, keep it in your garage, and install/tune a new PCM? In the event of a major engine failure, could't you just swap back in the original stock PCM and have zero chance of detection?

I plan to install a tuner regardless, and the reputable aftermarket tuners seem to be very safe and reliable. It just seems like this may be a solution for people who want to use a tuner, but are paranoid about their warranty getting denied. Its obviously more expensive, but could be justified as cheap insurance just in case.

 

What vehicle are you referring to, and what traces specifically?

 

Well I guess I'm in that group of ppl that is paranoid about having my warranty denied. I've been doing quite a bit of research and discussing this very situation with various ppl and sources over the last few days.

I wouldn't care nearly as much if I hadn't been able to get my truck with the "Warranty Forever" lifetime powertrain warranty. That being said, I really thought (for some reason) that the factory hp and torque were going to be enough, and of course I was wrong.

I've heard that certain tuners would only leave a p1000 code after returning the tune to stock and that wouldn't be enough to cause a certain denial of warranty, but there is just so much info out there that can be biased, one sided, and confusing that ppl like myself REALLY need a clean cut answer if there even is one....

Any help is appreciated and thanks in advance...

 

What engine do you have in the 2012?

 

6.2

 

I'm interested to see where this goes. Same question here.

 

I have the ecoboost motor.

I've read so many forums about this topic that I have lost track. Most seem to conclude that dealerships tend not have tools that can see any traces of a tuner being used. This has come from certified Ford technicians, and from the manufacturers of the tuning devices, not just general speculators like me However, no one seems to know for sure what Fords Motor Companies true abilities are with regards to a deeper analysis. Is there internal memory keeping 'copies' of every reflash that Ford techs cant see? Are there other ways for them to tell beyond the dealership level?

I just have this nagging feeling that if I tuned mine, even with a very reputable tuner like Diablo Sport or Livernois, and some major failure were to happen regardless of whether the tuner caused it, Ford would request to view the PCM to see if it had been messed with. If they found any 'cookie crumbs' to indicate it had been tuned, I might be shelling out $5-10k to replace the motor/trans/whatever... I just figured if the original PCM was removed before tuning, then replaced if something happened, there would be no way for them to see.

I am a mechanical engineer myself for a company that makes much less technologically advanced products, and we always put indicators which will show if our products have been tampered with/misused/abused. Hence my hesitation. I just think, had I been on the development team at Ford designing a groundbreaking truck engine such as this, knowing the potential tuning abilities, I would make damn sure that I could trace anything that aftermarket tuners could do. Especially since Ford is basing a large part of their reputation 'Ecoboost' technology. How hard would it be to have a redundant memory chip to make copies every time the PCM gets flashed? It could easily store all of the information including fuel mapping, boost changes, etc... I am not saying it is there, but its almost naive to assume that there isn't something there.

A PCM swap seems like an easy way to eliminate ALL concerns about be denied your warranty.

 

The problem is - how are you going to program the new PCM? It has to be programmed to your VIN, and I do believe it has to go to Ford to do that. That info is immediately going to go into the OASIS report.

You also have the TCM to worry about.

 

I think you should ask the manufacturer of your tuner. They SHOULD know, if anyone does, weather resetting the PCM/TCM back to stock leaves any trace of it having been reprogrammed. If they can't tell you then I'd bery very suspious about their truthfulness and/or their technical expertise and I'd probably take my business elsewhere.

Tuning data is contained computer memory that is alterable (RAM, EAPROM, etc) so it would be EASY for the tuner to simply read the original data and save it before reprogramming the tuning data and later restoring the original data could be completely restored without leaving any trace that the PCM/TCM data had ever been changed. However there are a few types of memory where the contents of the data could be used to set a checksum or other value that could be contained in what is otherwise non-accessible memory (sequential logic). I've been working on computers for over 40 years and IMO it would take a very sophisticated design to do that and it would have to be designed expressly for the purpose of seeing if the original data was ever tampered with. I can't say of Ford or anyone else has ever done that but IS possible but IMO it wouldn't be worth the costs or the potential for unintended breakdowns.

It's also COMMON in computer designs to use programmable memory and to program it and then to "blow" an internal fuse so that the memory contents are forever unalterable (OTP Proms, EEPROMS, etc.) Obviously Ford and others haven't chosen to do this so It's my belief that they purposely intent for the tuning data to remain alterable for the purpose of software updates, etc. So the question in my mind is that since they left the data in an alterable state can they LEGALLY deny warranty repairs based on the owner changing that data?

 

Our tuners for F150 models will leave no trace behind. We have checked and re-checked. Same for Mustang.
EcoBoost seems to have more possible 'checks' but we have not yet moved into that line of PCMs, but we'll make sure that the PCM looks the same when we restore as it did before we went in, just like we do on GM (we are the only ones who can truly not be detected on CAN GM PCMs).

In the GM world, swapping the PCM is an instant red flag, as they store mileage. No way around that.

One thing to keep in mind is, in order for dealer techs to be able to find this info, Ford has to tell them how. The mionute a bulletin like that hits the dealers, it gets spread all over the internet. Just look at the GM forums, everyone has seen GMs procedure for how to check CVNs. Many have seen similar bulletins from Ford on checking for tuned ecoboost PCMs. Since they have to tell the dealers what to look for, it makes it a little simpler to know what you have to do in order to not be detected. There is always a better mousetrap

Only 09-10 F150 actually use a standalone TCM, the rest are a single PCM for engine/trans.

Thanks

 

Do you know if the 2012 F150 PCM stores mileage?

 

I'm kind of amused by this discussion. I would think it would be a HUGE hassle to swap a PCM just to avoid a "possible" detection of programmer use. The programmer manufacturers/dealers/tuners who are sponsors in this forum have a proven track record of trouble-free operation. I don't really think this is an issue that should keep anyone awake at night.

Poor maintenance and over stressing the vehicle by using it in a manner that it was not intended for seem to be to be a much more serious warranty problem.

This is just my opinion, of course, based on over 40,000 trouble-free miles using PHP custom tunes for daily driving and towing our travel trailer.

- Jack

 

If you were to swap the pcm back after your motor blew up, if they looked for the codes or conditions of the failure there would be none. That would be a pretty tough one to explain. I can't think of any other failure that would have ford asking to inspect your pcm.