5spd & chip?
#1
09-05-2001, 01:35 AM
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5spd & chip?
Hello Everyone,
I am new to the site as a member, and I have a question. I am interested in installing a superchip in my truck. It has a 4.6 with 5spd. I have read info from others about the improved shifting of the AT, but what should I expect with the stick? I sure would'nt mind the extra power to throw around, but before I buy a chip I would like to hear from those with a little experience on this matter. By the way this is my first post, it's good to be here, and I'm damn proud t be driving a Ford! thanks,
Nurzratcht
I am new to the site as a member, and I have a question. I am interested in installing a superchip in my truck. It has a 4.6 with 5spd. I have read info from others about the improved shifting of the AT, but what should I expect with the stick? I sure would'nt mind the extra power to throw around, but before I buy a chip I would like to hear from those with a little experience on this matter. By the way this is my first post, it's good to be here, and I'm damn proud t be driving a Ford! thanks,
Nurzratcht
#2
09-05-2001, 12:51 PM
Senior Member
I don't have a 5-speed but...
#3
09-05-2001, 02:50 PM
Former Sponsor
Hi Drew,
Welcome to F-150 Online!
To answer your question, what Y2K Offroad said to you in his response is right on the money.
The amount of power gained from the Superchip by vehicles with manual transmissions is the same as the amount of power gained from the Superchip by vehicles with an automatic transmission, assuming both have the same engine.
Since you don't have an automatic, there aren't any automatic transmission shift characteristics for us to change. However, you still have a few delays & retards in those manual tranny vehicle's programming, and we remove all of those in the Superchip, like the full power onset delay, etc.
In fact, because manual trannys take less power to turn compared to automatic transmissions, you'll actually get more of that power gain from the Superchip to the rear wheels and to the ground, than the same identical vehicle with an automatic transmission would, so from that standpoint, you have a bit of an advantage.
To give you an idea, there is a 32-35 hp driveline loss for a F-150 manual versus a 65+ hp driveline loss for an F-150 with the 4R70W automatic, and a 70 hp driveline loss with the bigger 4R100 automatic. Any automatic transmission is going to take more power to turn than a comparable manual transmission in the same vehicle, by a factor of almost 2:1.
The maximum peak gains from the Superchip for your 4.6 F-150 are 26 horsepower and 40 lbs./ft. of torque. In round numbers, think of the Superchip as a 10%-12% power gainer. That's basically what your vehicle is going to feel like from installing the Superchip, like it picked up about 10%-12% more motor under the hood.
If you'd like to go over this in more detail, pleae feel free to give us a shout, our contact info is just below.
There are any number of others here with manual-tranny F-150's who are using the Superchip, and I'm sure you'll get some responses from end users as well.
Best of luck with your truck, & we hope you'll hang out here on F-150 Online with us in your spare time. It's a great place to learn more about these vehicles, and perhaps even make some new friends!
Welcome to F-150 Online!
To answer your question, what Y2K Offroad said to you in his response is right on the money.
The amount of power gained from the Superchip by vehicles with manual transmissions is the same as the amount of power gained from the Superchip by vehicles with an automatic transmission, assuming both have the same engine.
Since you don't have an automatic, there aren't any automatic transmission shift characteristics for us to change. However, you still have a few delays & retards in those manual tranny vehicle's programming, and we remove all of those in the Superchip, like the full power onset delay, etc.
In fact, because manual trannys take less power to turn compared to automatic transmissions, you'll actually get more of that power gain from the Superchip to the rear wheels and to the ground, than the same identical vehicle with an automatic transmission would, so from that standpoint, you have a bit of an advantage.
To give you an idea, there is a 32-35 hp driveline loss for a F-150 manual versus a 65+ hp driveline loss for an F-150 with the 4R70W automatic, and a 70 hp driveline loss with the bigger 4R100 automatic. Any automatic transmission is going to take more power to turn than a comparable manual transmission in the same vehicle, by a factor of almost 2:1.
The maximum peak gains from the Superchip for your 4.6 F-150 are 26 horsepower and 40 lbs./ft. of torque. In round numbers, think of the Superchip as a 10%-12% power gainer. That's basically what your vehicle is going to feel like from installing the Superchip, like it picked up about 10%-12% more motor under the hood.
If you'd like to go over this in more detail, pleae feel free to give us a shout, our contact info is just below.
There are any number of others here with manual-tranny F-150's who are using the Superchip, and I'm sure you'll get some responses from end users as well.
Best of luck with your truck, & we hope you'll hang out here on F-150 Online with us in your spare time. It's a great place to learn more about these vehicles, and perhaps even make some new friends!
#4
09-06-2001, 10:44 PM
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I have a Superchip in my F150. It's great! We might not get the shift points altered, we get all the power though. I liked my truck before the chip. It was quick.
With the mods, one of the most important being the Superchip, this truck rips! Now, I don't mean like some race car or something. It is a big improvement from stock, which wasn't all that bad to start with.
I think the Superchip is well worth it on the 5-speeds.
Give it a try. You'll see!
Thanks Mike for mentioning the delays and retards on the manual transmission. I wasn't aware they were there. I'd like to think that I've picked up a lot of info here. I did not know that one though. I learn something new every day.
I you wouldnt mind could you (Mike, or anyone else who might know) give a brief explination of the full power onset delay. And maybe a few words about the other computer effected things in the manual transmission. I like to know as much as I can when it comes to my truck.
Thanks!
Tom
With the mods, one of the most important being the Superchip, this truck rips! Now, I don't mean like some race car or something. It is a big improvement from stock, which wasn't all that bad to start with.
I think the Superchip is well worth it on the 5-speeds.
Give it a try. You'll see!
Thanks Mike for mentioning the delays and retards on the manual transmission. I wasn't aware they were there. I'd like to think that I've picked up a lot of info here. I did not know that one though. I learn something new every day.
I you wouldnt mind could you (Mike, or anyone else who might know) give a brief explination of the full power onset delay. And maybe a few words about the other computer effected things in the manual transmission. I like to know as much as I can when it comes to my truck.
Thanks!
Tom
#5
09-06-2001, 11:10 PM
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It's in.
Well I ordered my chip and it came today. I installed it without difficulty and took the truck for a spin. I noticed some power increase, but not what I expected. It had a snappy feel to it and sounds a little more beastly as it creeps into the rpm's. I did notice that it does not take as long to rev up and the top end limit is gone. I have seen people say there is a power delay, what is that all about? Thanks for all the useful information so far.
#6
09-07-2001, 04:24 PM
Former Sponsor
Hi Tom,
That's too much to get into in detail typing it all out, if you'd like to give us a call, I'll be happy to spend some time with you over the phone.
Briefly, the full power onset delay is simply a delay before you get 100% power after nailing the throttle. It's not that teh engien doesn't repond, of course it does, you just don't get 100% for a number of seconds.
That's too much to get into in detail typing it all out, if you'd like to give us a call, I'll be happy to spend some time with you over the phone.
Briefly, the full power onset delay is simply a delay before you get 100% power after nailing the throttle. It's not that teh engien doesn't repond, of course it does, you just don't get 100% for a number of seconds.
#7
09-07-2001, 04:30 PM
Former Sponsor
Hi Drew,
Thankst ,I just wanted to give you a quick comment if I may.........
Sounds like your Superchip is working fine and doing exaclty what it's supposed to.
It's not going to be a supercharger for a coupla hundred bucks, it's important to have accurate expectations. It is by far the single best performance enhancer you can get for that kind of cost, as nothing else will deliver that kind of power & performance gain for that little money.
The maximum rated gains at sea level altitude on good quality 92 octane are 26 horsepower and 40 lbs./ft. of torque in the 4.6 F-150. What the vehicle is actually going to *feel* like from installing the Superchip is like you just picked up about 10%-12% more motor under the hood, as that is what it's doing for your power.
In a vehicle as heavy as the F-150, it takes a solid 15 or more horsepower to really be able to feel anything at all in the seat of the pants, so to speak. Sounds like your Superchip is fine.
Just FYI, & have a great weekend!
Thankst ,I just wanted to give you a quick comment if I may.........
Sounds like your Superchip is working fine and doing exaclty what it's supposed to.
It's not going to be a supercharger for a coupla hundred bucks, it's important to have accurate expectations. It is by far the single best performance enhancer you can get for that kind of cost, as nothing else will deliver that kind of power & performance gain for that little money.
The maximum rated gains at sea level altitude on good quality 92 octane are 26 horsepower and 40 lbs./ft. of torque in the 4.6 F-150. What the vehicle is actually going to *feel* like from installing the Superchip is like you just picked up about 10%-12% more motor under the hood, as that is what it's doing for your power.
In a vehicle as heavy as the F-150, it takes a solid 15 or more horsepower to really be able to feel anything at all in the seat of the pants, so to speak. Sounds like your Superchip is fine.
Just FYI, & have a great weekend!
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#8
09-07-2001, 05:07 PM
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Mike,
I was not expedting that kind of power, but I just wondered if the chip took some time to get broken in. I took my wife for a ride and she told me, "don't hurt yourself" so I know for a fact it is working. I did not want to sound like I did not notice because I did. I thought I hade remebered someone saying that there were power increases after a few tanks of the 93 octane ran through. I am enjoying this site very much, and have learned plenty.
I was not expedting that kind of power, but I just wondered if the chip took some time to get broken in. I took my wife for a ride and she told me, "don't hurt yourself" so I know for a fact it is working. I did not want to sound like I did not notice because I did. I thought I hade remebered someone saying that there were power increases after a few tanks of the 93 octane ran through. I am enjoying this site very much, and have learned plenty.
#9
09-07-2001, 06:58 PM
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hang in there
Drew Branigan, hang in there. You will knotice the difference with different driving situations.
I knotice the biggest difference starting at around 3000 rpm.
When I am merging on to a highway, I hang on to third for a while. I can be going at least as fast as the traffic in a very short distance. It's a good feeling.
I think the mods really show thier stuff in the higher rpms.
When (if) you take the Superchip out (like for a trip to the dealer service dept.) you will be able to tell the difference.
It takes some getting used to.
Mike, I figured that this might not be the place. I will give you a call soon. I am very interested. Thanks!
Tom
I knotice the biggest difference starting at around 3000 rpm.
When I am merging on to a highway, I hang on to third for a while. I can be going at least as fast as the traffic in a very short distance. It's a good feeling.
I think the mods really show thier stuff in the higher rpms.
When (if) you take the Superchip out (like for a trip to the dealer service dept.) you will be able to tell the difference.
It takes some getting used to.
Mike, I figured that this might not be the place. I will give you a call soon. I am very interested. Thanks!
Tom
#10
09-09-2001, 05:37 PM
Former Sponsor
Hi Drew,
Sure! No problem at all, just trying to share some info with you, in case it might help.
For example, when you talk about does it take some time to really feel the effects of the Superchip, that can certainly be a factor if the ECU isn't fully cleared after the installation of the Superchip. In that case, it can take 350-500 miles for you to get all of it's effects, as it will come in gradually rather than quickly. As long as the ECU is properly cleared after installing the Superchip, as we describe in our additional Performance Products documentation that we send out with every Superchip we ship directly, then you'll get about 80% of what that Superchip can ultimately do very quickly, within the first 20 miles; then the last 20% or so, roughly speaking, will come in gradually as you accumulate the next 350-500 miles. So you could well have a point about that, and if you would like to go over that specifically, we'll be happy to, just shoot us an email or even better, give us a quick call, & we'll be happy to go over that in detail with you.
A much smaller factor that you also mentioned, and quite correctly, is that you do have some dilution of the incoming premium gas with the regular gas that is still in the tank. What we generally recommend is to let the 87 octane gas run down until the low fuel light comes on, fill it up with premium gas & then install the Superchip. Doing it like that, you still have a minumum of 3.5 to as many as 6 gallons left in the system when the low fuel light first comes on; so that first tank of premium won't give the absolute highest power gains (though with the ECU cleared you'll get most of it) , that will happen with the 2nd & 3rd tanks, as by then you'll have all of the previous 87 octane well out of the system.
What I was basically trying to convey to you in my first response was just to give you a rough idea of what the vehicle should feel like as a result of installing the Superchip. We can talk about the exact horsepower & torque numbers, but that raw data just doesn't really describe how the vehicle should actually *feel* from installing the Superchip. I think the most accurate way to express that is to look at the raw horsepower gains in terms of a percentage; the vehicle should feel like you just picked up about 10%-12% more motor under the hood. Now if the ECU wasn't fully cleared, then it'll take longer, a few huindred miles to really start feeling the effects.
Just trying to give you a little insight into what you should be feeling from the Superchip, sometimes that helps to give you a "yardstick" to measure your results by.
One last thing we'll do after installing the Superchip is to take the vehicle out and do 20 miles of varied driving; some lower speed cruising, some higher speed cruising, and at least 2, if possible 3, full-throttle bursts just long enough to go thru both the 1-2 and the 2-3 upshifts at full throttle in the automatics; in the manuals, just a couple good hard WOT runs thru the first 3 or 4 gears. This is just to throw a lot of different driving situations at it in a short period of time, to help speed the relearn a bit, and by the time you do that, you're feeling the effects of the Superchip nicely.
Best of luck, & have fun!
Sure! No problem at all, just trying to share some info with you, in case it might help.
For example, when you talk about does it take some time to really feel the effects of the Superchip, that can certainly be a factor if the ECU isn't fully cleared after the installation of the Superchip. In that case, it can take 350-500 miles for you to get all of it's effects, as it will come in gradually rather than quickly. As long as the ECU is properly cleared after installing the Superchip, as we describe in our additional Performance Products documentation that we send out with every Superchip we ship directly, then you'll get about 80% of what that Superchip can ultimately do very quickly, within the first 20 miles; then the last 20% or so, roughly speaking, will come in gradually as you accumulate the next 350-500 miles. So you could well have a point about that, and if you would like to go over that specifically, we'll be happy to, just shoot us an email or even better, give us a quick call, & we'll be happy to go over that in detail with you.
A much smaller factor that you also mentioned, and quite correctly, is that you do have some dilution of the incoming premium gas with the regular gas that is still in the tank. What we generally recommend is to let the 87 octane gas run down until the low fuel light comes on, fill it up with premium gas & then install the Superchip. Doing it like that, you still have a minumum of 3.5 to as many as 6 gallons left in the system when the low fuel light first comes on; so that first tank of premium won't give the absolute highest power gains (though with the ECU cleared you'll get most of it) , that will happen with the 2nd & 3rd tanks, as by then you'll have all of the previous 87 octane well out of the system.
What I was basically trying to convey to you in my first response was just to give you a rough idea of what the vehicle should feel like as a result of installing the Superchip. We can talk about the exact horsepower & torque numbers, but that raw data just doesn't really describe how the vehicle should actually *feel* from installing the Superchip. I think the most accurate way to express that is to look at the raw horsepower gains in terms of a percentage; the vehicle should feel like you just picked up about 10%-12% more motor under the hood. Now if the ECU wasn't fully cleared, then it'll take longer, a few huindred miles to really start feeling the effects.
Just trying to give you a little insight into what you should be feeling from the Superchip, sometimes that helps to give you a "yardstick" to measure your results by.
One last thing we'll do after installing the Superchip is to take the vehicle out and do 20 miles of varied driving; some lower speed cruising, some higher speed cruising, and at least 2, if possible 3, full-throttle bursts just long enough to go thru both the 1-2 and the 2-3 upshifts at full throttle in the automatics; in the manuals, just a couple good hard WOT runs thru the first 3 or 4 gears. This is just to throw a lot of different driving situations at it in a short period of time, to help speed the relearn a bit, and by the time you do that, you're feeling the effects of the Superchip nicely.
Best of luck, & have fun!
Last edited by Superchips_Distributor; 09-09-2001 at 05:43 PM.
#11
09-09-2001, 05:41 PM
Former Sponsor
Hi Tom,
Sure, I'll be more than happy to go over all of that with you in detail!
Just give us a shout when you get a chance. Just so you'll know my short-term schedule, I'll be leaving for out of town roughly early afternoon on Monday, then I'll be out Tuesday, but back in on Wednesday & the rest of the week as usual. Also, I'll be available by cell (call the shop & Anita will give you the #) while I'm out of the shop. Just letting you know in case you wanted to call on Monday or Tuesday.
Talk to you soon, Tom, & thanks ever so much for your understanding!
Sure, I'll be more than happy to go over all of that with you in detail!
Just give us a shout when you get a chance. Just so you'll know my short-term schedule, I'll be leaving for out of town roughly early afternoon on Monday, then I'll be out Tuesday, but back in on Wednesday & the rest of the week as usual. Also, I'll be available by cell (call the shop & Anita will give you the #) while I'm out of the shop. Just letting you know in case you wanted to call on Monday or Tuesday.
Talk to you soon, Tom, & thanks ever so much for your understanding!
#12
09-11-2001, 09:58 AM
Here is a quick explination of why it takes a while for the PCM to re-learn the driving habits and establish a performance level.
Exponentially Weighted Moving Average
Exponentially Weighted Moving Averaging is a well-documented statistical data processing technique that is used to reduce the variability on an incoming stream of data. Use of EWMA does not affect the mean of the data, however, it does
affect the distribution of the data. Use of EWMA serves to "filter out" data points that exhibit excessive and unusual variability and could otherwise erroneously light the MIL.
The simplified mathematical equation for EWMA implemented in software is as follows:
New Average = [New data point * "filter constant"] + [( 1 - "filter constant" ) * Old
Average]
This equation produces an exponential response to a step-change in the input data. The time constant of the response is determined by the "Filter Constant". A large filter constant ( i.e. 0.90 ) means that 90% of the new data point is averaged in with 10% of the old average. This produces a very fast response to a step change. Conversely, a small filter constant ( i.e. 0.10 ) means that only 10% of the new data point is averaged in with 90% of the old average. This produces a slower response to a step change.
When EWMA is applied to a monitor, the new data point is the result from the latest monitor evaluation. A new average is calculated each time the monitor is evaluated and stored in Keep Alive Memory (KAM). This normally occurs each driving cycle.
In order to facilitate repair verification and DDV demonstration, 2 different filter constants are used. A "fast filter constant" is used after KAM is cleared/DTCs are erased and a "normal filter constant" is used for normal customer driving. The "fast filter" is used for 2 driving cycles after KAM is cleared/DTCs are erased, then the "normal filter" is used. The "fast filter" allows for easy repair verification and monitor demonstration in 2 driving cycles, while the normal filter is used to allow up to 6 driving cycles, on average, to properly identify a malfunction and illuminate the MIL.
Regards
Jean Marc Chartier
Exponentially Weighted Moving Average
Exponentially Weighted Moving Averaging is a well-documented statistical data processing technique that is used to reduce the variability on an incoming stream of data. Use of EWMA does not affect the mean of the data, however, it does
affect the distribution of the data. Use of EWMA serves to "filter out" data points that exhibit excessive and unusual variability and could otherwise erroneously light the MIL.
The simplified mathematical equation for EWMA implemented in software is as follows:
New Average = [New data point * "filter constant"] + [( 1 - "filter constant" ) * Old
Average]
This equation produces an exponential response to a step-change in the input data. The time constant of the response is determined by the "Filter Constant". A large filter constant ( i.e. 0.90 ) means that 90% of the new data point is averaged in with 10% of the old average. This produces a very fast response to a step change. Conversely, a small filter constant ( i.e. 0.10 ) means that only 10% of the new data point is averaged in with 90% of the old average. This produces a slower response to a step change.
When EWMA is applied to a monitor, the new data point is the result from the latest monitor evaluation. A new average is calculated each time the monitor is evaluated and stored in Keep Alive Memory (KAM). This normally occurs each driving cycle.
In order to facilitate repair verification and DDV demonstration, 2 different filter constants are used. A "fast filter constant" is used after KAM is cleared/DTCs are erased and a "normal filter constant" is used for normal customer driving. The "fast filter" is used for 2 driving cycles after KAM is cleared/DTCs are erased, then the "normal filter" is used. The "fast filter" allows for easy repair verification and monitor demonstration in 2 driving cycles, while the normal filter is used to allow up to 6 driving cycles, on average, to properly identify a malfunction and illuminate the MIL.
Regards
Jean Marc Chartier
Last edited by JMC; 09-11-2001 at 10:05 AM.
#13
09-12-2001, 10:34 AM
Senior Member
#14
09-13-2001, 06:37 PM
Former Sponsor
#15
09-13-2001, 07:42 PM
