That is odd, you state “not” to make it conservative vs. whinny liberal then you state:

So all this black box and secret “evil” information gathering is Ashcroft and Rumsfields fault? They are both conservative and absolutely not whinny liberals. It seems you just made it a whinny liberal vs. stand up take responsibility conservative debate.

Actually it is the whinny ill responsible liberals in this country who would love nothing more then TOTAL control over everyone’s life. However since some of this information gathering is designed to catch “bad evil” people they, the whinny liberal crowd wants no part of that. I can understand because it is their nature, they do NOT like to see anyone held accountable for their actions, so long as they believe and stand with the rest of the whinny liberals of this country. It has always been two sided with that crowd, the liberal crowd. They want free choice as long as it is in line with what they think you should choose. They want NO ONE to be responsible for their actions, unless of course your someone like me who thinks they are a bunch of nut cases worrying about black helicopters landing at their home in the middle of the night.

Let’s also remember most liberals do NOT want anyone to actually catch any “evil” terriost before they comment another deadly act. That would screw everything up for them and all their plans. They can’t wait for another attack so they can blame it on President Bush, Rumsfield and Ashcroft.

I don’t like anyone snooping around with my personal things, be it my phone calls, my email, where I go on the web, or what the hell I may be doing in my truck. Here is the thing, if SOMEONE doesn’t try their best to prevent future acts of mischief then how are you going to STOP it?

As I said I don’t like someone snooping around my personal things, however I have nothing to worry about since I am doing nothing illegal to begin with, be it on the phone, computer or in my truck. Those that worry about it most likely are doing something they shouldn’t be doing to begin with. Either make people responsible for their actions, which liberals HATE to do, or get over it there is nothing you can do because there are more of me out here who want the government (ones we can trust like President Bush) to try their best at stopping future terriost attacks. Not like the Clinton government that only cared about a BJ while other things in the world where falling apart. Clinton had his chance, three times I believe and he was to “busy” to do anything about it.

Yes this is a conservative vs. whinny liberal debate… :thumbsup:

I remember seeing on television that the car rental companies have the capability to know if you speed with their cars and charge you an arm and a leg if you do. I do not remember how they know I believe it was with a gps unit or some kind of lojack thing. Some people are being hit with outrages monetary charges for speeding with the rental cars.

Yes, they can often tell that kind of thing by a GPS unit and some other hardware.

OK, sorry but I did not read all of this thread...just to dam long and boring.

I have never actually worked with the back boxes myself (my background is industrial failure analysis, not accident reconstruction) but several of our engineers work with them regularly (Accident reconstruction engineers). So I do have some information about the "black boxes". First of all, I don’t like the idea or presence of “black boxes” and I feel that the data in a black box is mine and is an invasion of my privacy. However, I'm wrong...

• The data is stored in nonvolatile memory and will not be lost when disconnect from the battery. (I have seen data being downloaded from a black box in the comfort of the engineers office).
• Insurance companies routinely download the information following a major accident. If you file an insurance claim you are required to allow them to do this, hidden in your insurance policy somewhere is language indicating that you will cooperate in an investigation. Also, if your car is totaled and the insurance pays you, the car (and all the data) is theirs, not yours.
• There is definite potential of abuse. OK, so who has ever driven 65 mph in a 55 mph zone? If someone slams into you (accident 100% their fault) the insurance company can refuse to pay you because the accident occurred while you were breaking the law (speeding). This is an extreme case, but it could happen (I don’t think it ever has, but it could…).
• The list of cars with black boxes is ever increasing. Just a few years ago there was only a handful, soon all new cars will have them.

As I said, I don’t like them but they’re here to stay..