05 SCREW headlight issues.
#1
03-17-2006 | 08:32 PM
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From: Prompton,PA.
05 SCREW headlight issues.
I think my baby has a cold! All of a sudden my factory fog lights go out.I turn the switch off and then on again and the lghts work but now the high beem indicator stays lit dimmly only when the fog light switch is pulled out.I have no highbeems whatsoever!If I flash the highs with the fog lights on they shut off and I have to turn them off then on again.Can anyone help with this or do I need to take her to a doctor?
Thank you guys!Bob
Thank you guys!Bob
#2
03-17-2006 | 11:48 PM
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From: Under the flightpath of old ORD 22R
Back ground info :
1. High Beam Relay is relay #03 in the Central Junction box ( inside the cab R/H kick panel, by the fuel inerita switch ), this is a full size ISO relay top row, on the right.
1.1.Alternate test relay with the factory tow package, relay #05 ( second row fo Full size relays, center )
2. Fog Lamp Relay is relay #202 in the central junction box, top row, half size ISO relay.
2.1.Alternate test relay with the factory tow package, relay #201 Trailer tow relay parking lamp.
3. MFS function for High Beams and Fog lamps ( with position in either Park or Head Lamp position).
3.1. The coil on the High beam relay gets power from the MFS, when the FTP or the high beams are turned on. The other side of the coil is ground.
3.2. The coil operates the N.O. contacts from the power in the fuse box, via Fuse F35 ( 20 AMP ) to the high beam element in the head lamps.
3.3. The low beams in the head lamps are directly fed via the 2; 10 AMP fuses ( F23 & F25 ) from the MFS.
3.4. When the high beam relay N.O. contacts are made, they apply power to both sides of the fog lamp coil, which makes it drop, and thus the fog lamps go out.
3.5. When the high beam relay is off, the fog lamp relay coil finds ground via the high beam element.
Question(s) :
1. Do you have Daytime Running Lamps installed ?
1.1. The reason I ask is if the DRL relay took a powder, it could be applying the lowered voltage to the coil size of the fog lamp relay, causing it to drop the fog lamps, and this is the same circuit that applys power to the instrument cluster for the HB indicator lamp. The DRL runs lowered power to the high beam side of the head lamp.
2. This is a hard one to tell, but when you are having the problem, does it appear that the Hig beam is lit in the head lamp, along with the low beam ?
3. Have you tried checking Fog lamp function in the park position, and use either the FTP or the high beams, and then see if the high beam lamp is dimply lit, when the instrument cluster is also dimly lit ( this might be easier to check then Question #2 ).
Somewhere there is a lowered amount of power on the drived ground side of the fog lamp relay, which is also the circuit for the cluster indicator lamp, which is also on the high beam side, and attached to the DRLs.
The DRL relay is under the hood, in the AUX fuse box, where the 4x4 relays and the A/C Clutch relay and diode are at. I think that is on the inside of the passenger fender.
If you can answer the questions, best you can we can take it from there. I don't want to have you swapping relays for no reason, in case one of them is damaged, or getting damaged by this.
Good luck in the questions, let us know what you come up with.
Steve
1. High Beam Relay is relay #03 in the Central Junction box ( inside the cab R/H kick panel, by the fuel inerita switch ), this is a full size ISO relay top row, on the right.
1.1.Alternate test relay with the factory tow package, relay #05 ( second row fo Full size relays, center )
2. Fog Lamp Relay is relay #202 in the central junction box, top row, half size ISO relay.
2.1.Alternate test relay with the factory tow package, relay #201 Trailer tow relay parking lamp.
3. MFS function for High Beams and Fog lamps ( with position in either Park or Head Lamp position).
3.1. The coil on the High beam relay gets power from the MFS, when the FTP or the high beams are turned on. The other side of the coil is ground.
3.2. The coil operates the N.O. contacts from the power in the fuse box, via Fuse F35 ( 20 AMP ) to the high beam element in the head lamps.
3.3. The low beams in the head lamps are directly fed via the 2; 10 AMP fuses ( F23 & F25 ) from the MFS.
3.4. When the high beam relay N.O. contacts are made, they apply power to both sides of the fog lamp coil, which makes it drop, and thus the fog lamps go out.
3.5. When the high beam relay is off, the fog lamp relay coil finds ground via the high beam element.
Question(s) :
1. Do you have Daytime Running Lamps installed ?
1.1. The reason I ask is if the DRL relay took a powder, it could be applying the lowered voltage to the coil size of the fog lamp relay, causing it to drop the fog lamps, and this is the same circuit that applys power to the instrument cluster for the HB indicator lamp. The DRL runs lowered power to the high beam side of the head lamp.
2. This is a hard one to tell, but when you are having the problem, does it appear that the Hig beam is lit in the head lamp, along with the low beam ?
3. Have you tried checking Fog lamp function in the park position, and use either the FTP or the high beams, and then see if the high beam lamp is dimply lit, when the instrument cluster is also dimly lit ( this might be easier to check then Question #2 ).
Somewhere there is a lowered amount of power on the drived ground side of the fog lamp relay, which is also the circuit for the cluster indicator lamp, which is also on the high beam side, and attached to the DRLs.
The DRL relay is under the hood, in the AUX fuse box, where the 4x4 relays and the A/C Clutch relay and diode are at. I think that is on the inside of the passenger fender.
If you can answer the questions, best you can we can take it from there. I don't want to have you swapping relays for no reason, in case one of them is damaged, or getting damaged by this.
Good luck in the questions, let us know what you come up with.
Steve
#3
03-18-2006 | 06:08 AM
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From: Prompton,PA.
Headlight issues.
Originally Posted by SSCULLY
Back ground info :
1. High Beam Relay is relay #03 in the Central Junction box ( inside the cab R/H kick panel, by the fuel inerita switch ), this is a full size ISO relay top row, on the right.
1.1.Alternate test relay with the factory tow package, relay #05 ( second row fo Full size relays, center )
2. Fog Lamp Relay is relay #202 in the central junction box, top row, half size ISO relay.
2.1.Alternate test relay with the factory tow package, relay #201 Trailer tow relay parking lamp.
3. MFS function for High Beams and Fog lamps ( with position in either Park or Head Lamp position).
3.1. The coil on the High beam relay gets power from the MFS, when the FTP or the high beams are turned on. The other side of the coil is ground.
3.2. The coil operates the N.O. contacts from the power in the fuse box, via Fuse F35 ( 20 AMP ) to the high beam element in the head lamps.
3.3. The low beams in the head lamps are directly fed via the 2; 10 AMP fuses ( F23 & F25 ) from the MFS.
3.4. When the high beam relay N.O. contacts are made, they apply power to both sides of the fog lamp coil, which makes it drop, and thus the fog lamps go out.
3.5. When the high beam relay is off, the fog lamp relay coil finds ground via the high beam element.
Question(s) :
1. Do you have Daytime Running Lamps installed ?
1.1. The reason I ask is if the DRL relay took a powder, it could be applying the lowered voltage to the coil size of the fog lamp relay, causing it to drop the fog lamps, and this is the same circuit that applys power to the instrument cluster for the HB indicator lamp. The DRL runs lowered power to the high beam side of the head lamp.
2. This is a hard one to tell, but when you are having the problem, does it appear that the Hig beam is lit in the head lamp, along with the low beam ?
3. Have you tried checking Fog lamp function in the park position, and use either the FTP or the high beams, and then see if the high beam lamp is dimply lit, when the instrument cluster is also dimly lit ( this might be easier to check then Question #2 ).
Somewhere there is a lowered amount of power on the drived ground side of the fog lamp relay, which is also the circuit for the cluster indicator lamp, which is also on the high beam side, and attached to the DRLs.
The DRL relay is under the hood, in the AUX fuse box, where the 4x4 relays and the A/C Clutch relay and diode are at. I think that is on the inside of the passenger fender.
If you can answer the questions, best you can we can take it from there. I don't want to have you swapping relays for no reason, in case one of them is damaged, or getting damaged by this.
Good luck in the questions, let us know what you come up with.
Steve
1. High Beam Relay is relay #03 in the Central Junction box ( inside the cab R/H kick panel, by the fuel inerita switch ), this is a full size ISO relay top row, on the right.
1.1.Alternate test relay with the factory tow package, relay #05 ( second row fo Full size relays, center )
2. Fog Lamp Relay is relay #202 in the central junction box, top row, half size ISO relay.
2.1.Alternate test relay with the factory tow package, relay #201 Trailer tow relay parking lamp.
3. MFS function for High Beams and Fog lamps ( with position in either Park or Head Lamp position).
3.1. The coil on the High beam relay gets power from the MFS, when the FTP or the high beams are turned on. The other side of the coil is ground.
3.2. The coil operates the N.O. contacts from the power in the fuse box, via Fuse F35 ( 20 AMP ) to the high beam element in the head lamps.
3.3. The low beams in the head lamps are directly fed via the 2; 10 AMP fuses ( F23 & F25 ) from the MFS.
3.4. When the high beam relay N.O. contacts are made, they apply power to both sides of the fog lamp coil, which makes it drop, and thus the fog lamps go out.
3.5. When the high beam relay is off, the fog lamp relay coil finds ground via the high beam element.
Question(s) :
1. Do you have Daytime Running Lamps installed ?
1.1. The reason I ask is if the DRL relay took a powder, it could be applying the lowered voltage to the coil size of the fog lamp relay, causing it to drop the fog lamps, and this is the same circuit that applys power to the instrument cluster for the HB indicator lamp. The DRL runs lowered power to the high beam side of the head lamp.
2. This is a hard one to tell, but when you are having the problem, does it appear that the Hig beam is lit in the head lamp, along with the low beam ?
3. Have you tried checking Fog lamp function in the park position, and use either the FTP or the high beams, and then see if the high beam lamp is dimply lit, when the instrument cluster is also dimly lit ( this might be easier to check then Question #2 ).
Somewhere there is a lowered amount of power on the drived ground side of the fog lamp relay, which is also the circuit for the cluster indicator lamp, which is also on the high beam side, and attached to the DRLs.
The DRL relay is under the hood, in the AUX fuse box, where the 4x4 relays and the A/C Clutch relay and diode are at. I think that is on the inside of the passenger fender.
If you can answer the questions, best you can we can take it from there. I don't want to have you swapping relays for no reason, in case one of them is damaged, or getting damaged by this.
Good luck in the questions, let us know what you come up with.
Steve
#4
03-18-2006 | 07:43 AM
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From: Under the flightpath of old ORD 22R
Originally Posted by bobfawcett
..<snip>..Tried everything in park with no change.Thanks,Bob
Sorry when I wrote this I had a few drinks in me, when I said park position, I meant the parking lamp position on the headlamp switch. Don't know if that came through too well, after reading it this am. I know I was confused this am.
When you say you click back the highs, and loose all but the parking lamps, is this with the head lamp switch in the off position ? I should just ask, what position is the head lamp switch in when this happens.
WTF was that post....War & Peace ?
Another Post to follow....
Last edited by SSCULLY; 03-18-2006 at 07:54 AM.
#5
03-18-2006 | 08:14 AM
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From: Under the flightpath of old ORD 22R
Ok taking a look at this via a poor ground, rather then low voltage applied ( the symptom that you see from Autolamp to headlamp position ) :
The ground for the head lamps / fogs / and a few other things :
G104 is on the pass side inner fender, right between the battery and the washer tank.
G110 is on the driver's side inner fender wall, about where the intake comes through the wall ( you will see the AUX fuse panel here, not on the other side like I had written last night ). Also, take a look at the harness under the intake track, that splice there see if it looks mashed for some reason.
Check these 2 grounds, to make sure they are not loose or damaged, as well as the wires from them.
G200 looks to be behing the hood latch cover in the L/H kick panel, don't know who this would pair with the work, but it is one fo the grounds for the Auto lamp system. Check this one for loose or broken wire.
Take a look at the grounds, and let me know about the question above. Good thing I took my B-12 before going to bed, this would not have made any sense this am
Good lcuk, let us know what you come up with
Steve
The ground for the head lamps / fogs / and a few other things :
G104 is on the pass side inner fender, right between the battery and the washer tank.
G110 is on the driver's side inner fender wall, about where the intake comes through the wall ( you will see the AUX fuse panel here, not on the other side like I had written last night ). Also, take a look at the harness under the intake track, that splice there see if it looks mashed for some reason.
Check these 2 grounds, to make sure they are not loose or damaged, as well as the wires from them.
G200 looks to be behing the hood latch cover in the L/H kick panel, don't know who this would pair with the work, but it is one fo the grounds for the Auto lamp system. Check this one for loose or broken wire.
Take a look at the grounds, and let me know about the question above. Good thing I took my B-12 before going to bed, this would not have made any sense this am
Good lcuk, let us know what you come up with
Steve
#6
03-18-2006 | 11:11 AM
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From: Prompton,PA.
Same problem no matter what position the headlight switch is in.Low beems work unless you turn on the highs then no front lights except for parking.High beem indicator is dim when fog lights are on but goes bright when you use the FTP or turn on the highs but then the fogs go out and won't come on till you push in the switch and pull it out again even though the switch say's the fogs are still on.No change in headlight brightness when using the FTP just lose the fogs untill you reset them.I lose all lights in highbeem position though.This is so hard to explain but I hope I cleared it up some.I wil go out and check those grounds though.Is there some wire near anything that the guys at Jippy Lube could have bumped or disconnected that I could check first?Thanks,Bob
#7
03-18-2006 | 11:58 AM
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From: Prompton,PA.
Originally Posted by bobfawcett
Same problem no matter what position the headlight switch is in.Low beems work unless you turn on the highs then no front lights except for parking.High beem indicator is dim when fog lights are on but goes bright when you use the FTP or turn on the highs but then the fogs go out and won't come on till you push in the switch and pull it out again even though the switch say's the fogs are still on.No change in headlight brightness when using the FTP just lose the fogs untill you reset them.I lose all lights in highbeem position though.This is so hard to explain but I hope I cleared it up some.I wil go out and check those grounds though.Is there some wire near anything that the guys at Jippy Lube could have bumped or disconnected that I could check first?Thanks,Bob
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#8
03-19-2006 | 10:26 AM
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From: Under the flightpath of old ORD 22R
Bob,
I keep goping forwards and back on this, and I am confused.
If we try a trouble shooting step and pull the fog lamp relay, and see if the high beam indicator is dim on the instrument cluster still.
The question about the after market starter alarm, does it flash the head lamps when the doors are locked, or does it work like the factory and just flahs the parking lamps ?
I keep staring at pages 85-1, 86-1 and 87-x to try to figure out how the voltage bleed is gettiing into circuit 12 Light Green w/ black stripe.
At least that is the only way I can see the instrument cluster getting illuminated. The other side of the instrument cluster, is a common ground with circuit 57, pin 17. If something was getting to the high beam indicator from the goround side I would think more then that single indicator lamp would be dimly lit.
Try pulling the Fog Lamp Relay, and re test with the head lamps on and in the parking lamp position. Do the test the same with the fog lamp switch, obviously they will not light, but check the other probelms all the same.
Let us know what happens.
Steve
I keep goping forwards and back on this, and I am confused.
If we try a trouble shooting step and pull the fog lamp relay, and see if the high beam indicator is dim on the instrument cluster still.
The question about the after market starter alarm, does it flash the head lamps when the doors are locked, or does it work like the factory and just flahs the parking lamps ?
I keep staring at pages 85-1, 86-1 and 87-x to try to figure out how the voltage bleed is gettiing into circuit 12 Light Green w/ black stripe.
At least that is the only way I can see the instrument cluster getting illuminated. The other side of the instrument cluster, is a common ground with circuit 57, pin 17. If something was getting to the high beam indicator from the goround side I would think more then that single indicator lamp would be dimly lit.
Try pulling the Fog Lamp Relay, and re test with the head lamps on and in the parking lamp position. Do the test the same with the fog lamp switch, obviously they will not light, but check the other probelms all the same.
Let us know what happens.
Steve
#9
03-19-2006 | 10:59 AM
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From: Prompton,PA.
Originally Posted by SSCULLY
Bob,
I keep goping forwards and back on this, and I am confused.
If we try a trouble shooting step and pull the fog lamp relay, and see if the high beam indicator is dim on the instrument cluster still.
The question about the after market starter alarm, does it flash the head lamps when the doors are locked, or does it work like the factory and just flahs the parking lamps ?
I keep staring at pages 85-1, 86-1 and 87-x to try to figure out how the voltage bleed is gettiing into circuit 12 Light Green w/ black stripe.
At least that is the only way I can see the instrument cluster getting illuminated. The other side of the instrument cluster, is a common ground with circuit 57, pin 17. If something was getting to the high beam indicator from the goround side I would think more then that single indicator lamp would be dimly lit.
Try pulling the Fog Lamp Relay, and re test with the head lamps on and in the parking lamp position. Do the test the same with the fog lamp switch, obviously they will not light, but check the other probelms all the same.
Let us know what happens.
Steve
I keep goping forwards and back on this, and I am confused.
If we try a trouble shooting step and pull the fog lamp relay, and see if the high beam indicator is dim on the instrument cluster still.
The question about the after market starter alarm, does it flash the head lamps when the doors are locked, or does it work like the factory and just flahs the parking lamps ?
I keep staring at pages 85-1, 86-1 and 87-x to try to figure out how the voltage bleed is gettiing into circuit 12 Light Green w/ black stripe.
At least that is the only way I can see the instrument cluster getting illuminated. The other side of the instrument cluster, is a common ground with circuit 57, pin 17. If something was getting to the high beam indicator from the goround side I would think more then that single indicator lamp would be dimly lit.
Try pulling the Fog Lamp Relay, and re test with the head lamps on and in the parking lamp position. Do the test the same with the fog lamp switch, obviously they will not light, but check the other probelms all the same.
Let us know what happens.
Steve
Last edited by bobfawcett; 03-19-2006 at 11:04 AM.
#10
03-19-2006 | 01:35 PM
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From: Under the flightpath of old ORD 22R
Bob,
That gives us something to go on, now that without the Fog lamp relay installed, the dim instrument cluster indcator lamp is not longer the problem.
Do you have the factory tow package ?
Pull the half size ISO relay #201 Trailer tow relay parking lamp, and install it in place of the Fog Lamp relay, and see if you go back to the problem.
The coil on the fog lamp relay is powered from the switch, and derives ground through the high beam head lamp on the right side.
Also while you out in the garage, check the bulb connector on the both high beams to make sure the connector is on tight on both, and neither look mashed in any way. Should be fine with them working, but I just want to take that extra step in checking the grounds ( like you did on the fenders already ).
Those pages ( not 60-2 ) should have been in the zip file I emailed off already.
Try the tow relay in place of the fog lamp relay, and see if we get the same results.
Thanks
Steve
That gives us something to go on, now that without the Fog lamp relay installed, the dim instrument cluster indcator lamp is not longer the problem.
Do you have the factory tow package ?
Pull the half size ISO relay #201 Trailer tow relay parking lamp, and install it in place of the Fog Lamp relay, and see if you go back to the problem.
The coil on the fog lamp relay is powered from the switch, and derives ground through the high beam head lamp on the right side.
Also while you out in the garage, check the bulb connector on the both high beams to make sure the connector is on tight on both, and neither look mashed in any way. Should be fine with them working, but I just want to take that extra step in checking the grounds ( like you did on the fenders already ).
Those pages ( not 60-2 ) should have been in the zip file I emailed off already.
Try the tow relay in place of the fog lamp relay, and see if we get the same results.
Thanks
Steve
#11
03-19-2006 | 01:57 PM
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From: Prompton,PA.
Originally Posted by SSCULLY
Bob,
That gives us something to go on, now that without the Fog lamp relay installed, the dim instrument cluster indcator lamp is not longer the problem.
Do you have the factory tow package ?
Pull the half size ISO relay #201 Trailer tow relay parking lamp, and install it in place of the Fog Lamp relay, and see if you go back to the problem.
The coil on the fog lamp relay is powered from the switch, and derives ground through the high beam head lamp on the right side.
Also while you out in the garage, check the bulb connector on the both high beams to make sure the connector is on tight on both, and neither look mashed in any way. Should be fine with them working, but I just want to take that extra step in checking the grounds ( like you did on the fenders already ).
Those pages ( not 60-2 ) should have been in the zip file I emailed off already.
Try the tow relay in place of the fog lamp relay, and see if we get the same results.
Thanks
Steve
That gives us something to go on, now that without the Fog lamp relay installed, the dim instrument cluster indcator lamp is not longer the problem.
Do you have the factory tow package ?
Pull the half size ISO relay #201 Trailer tow relay parking lamp, and install it in place of the Fog Lamp relay, and see if you go back to the problem.
The coil on the fog lamp relay is powered from the switch, and derives ground through the high beam head lamp on the right side.
Also while you out in the garage, check the bulb connector on the both high beams to make sure the connector is on tight on both, and neither look mashed in any way. Should be fine with them working, but I just want to take that extra step in checking the grounds ( like you did on the fenders already ).
Those pages ( not 60-2 ) should have been in the zip file I emailed off already.
Try the tow relay in place of the fog lamp relay, and see if we get the same results.
Thanks
Steve
#12
03-19-2006 | 02:16 PM
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From: Under the flightpath of old ORD 22R
Originally Posted by bobfawcett
Yes I do have the trailer tow option and the relay swap made no difference.I did check the plugs too and they looked fine.Is it possible both high beam bulbs blew?Would that cause any problems?My bulbs are aftermarket super white xenon's.I have them in all of my vehicles and have never had a problem with them before.Should I check into that?
Did I get that wrong ?
#13
03-19-2006 | 02:22 PM
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From: Vienna, Georgia
I'm sorry to interrupt yall's convesation but I have a quick question. I have a 97 lariat and I was wondering if I can wire up an accessory into my headlight switch. My headlight switch has 2 postions: 1parking lights and 2headlights. But when the headlights are on, I can pull on the switch, and it clicks out (just like the fog lights on my uncle's f-250) I was wondering if I could wire up the switch to where, when I pull the **** out, my accessory (strobes) would come on?
#14
03-19-2006 | 02:28 PM
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From: Under the flightpath of old ORD 22R
Originally Posted by SSCULLY
Maybe I read it wrong, thought that the FTP and the high beams worked correctly ??
Did I get that wrong ?
Did I get that wrong ?
Originally Posted by bobfawcett
..<snip>...I have no highbeems whatsoever!...<snip>...
Check on page 86-1, the coil for the fog lamp relay is derived through the high beams. Check with a meter on the head lamp connecor, to make sure you have power when you turn on the high beams ( LG-BK wire is +12V BK is ground ) and if that is good, try putting a stock bulb back in, and see if the fog lamp works.
The fog lamp relay coil might be trying to use the instrument cluster to find ground to work.
Told you I ahd a few drinks in me when I read the start of the thread :o
Steve
#15
03-19-2006 | 02:38 PM
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From: Prompton,PA.
Originally Posted by SSCULLY
Re-Read the first post. Answered my own question
Sorry I had you running around, yes if the high beam element is burned out, the fog lamp coil is going to try to find another path to ground.
Check on page 86-1, the coil for the fog lamp relay is derived through the high beams. Check with a meter on the head lamp connecor, to make sure you have power when you turn on the high beams ( LG-BK wire is +12V BK is ground ) and if that is good, try putting a stock bulb back in, and see if the fog lamp works.
The fog lamp relay coil might be trying to use the instrument cluster to find ground to work.
Told you I ahd a few drinks in me when I read the start of the thread :o
Steve
Sorry I had you running around, yes if the high beam element is burned out, the fog lamp coil is going to try to find another path to ground.
Check on page 86-1, the coil for the fog lamp relay is derived through the high beams. Check with a meter on the head lamp connecor, to make sure you have power when you turn on the high beams ( LG-BK wire is +12V BK is ground ) and if that is good, try putting a stock bulb back in, and see if the fog lamp works.
The fog lamp relay coil might be trying to use the instrument cluster to find ground to work.
Told you I ahd a few drinks in me when I read the start of the thread :o
Steve