I know this will get some rebuke, but the only thing good about the raven is the sound! I have three major complains about the raven and midas.I have a 4.6 with a dynomax super turbo its quiet and ok on power. I wanted more saw the raven checked it out heres what I found.

1. As most of you have seen the price is different from midas to midas. I live in Ca. San Diego to be exact we have 12 midas's jackpot right wrong! everybody has a new story for me z-33 the cheepest , then its no they cost the most, and then its oh we cant get them. I was told that they were all owned by the same person and the price would be the same.Ok heres where it gets good price for z-33 2 1/2x 2 1/2 pice from $89.00 to $165.00 and I was very clear this is the muffler price only!!!! each was sure of there price.


2. I will give you guys the sound factor,but power come on!! Ok I have a dynomax superturbo on its to quiet so I wanted to upgrade too. I saw all the postings on the raven sound and how it flows better than flowmaster thats not too hard.I have the paperwork I got from midas and saw a cutaway of one. It still is not a true preformance muffler! It has baffles and in reguards to their bench flow data it equals about 2-3 more hp than flowmaster. I have seen most of you guys have superchips and air inductions like myself. To make hp you need to maximize you air funnel: air in , air out. The raven flows on average 375cfm. Ultraflow, Magnaflow ,Bullets and even glasspacks flow about 1000cfm. good for about 7-10 hp over a flowmaster or dynomax superturbo.

3. And for my last complaint lol the salesman they have no idea about the mufflers they sell. Midas the muffler shop of america yep they ask me the customer whats a flow through design? Ok the ravens new but you should still know your products.


I hope they guys that got the raven are happy I listened to one on the shop truck its nice but all that money and hastle you could get way more hp at a better price !

[This message has been edited by ddhotshot (edited 11-01-2000).]

[This message has been edited by ddhotshot (edited 11-01-2000).]

 

Good Points ddhotshot

I am more interested in performance than “nice” sound. I really don’t care if my exhaust sounds better than the guy next to me. I want him to hear my exhaust for what it is as I blow his doors off.
I am a little picky though I would like to have Max performance with MIN sound. (I may be asking to much). You know cake and eat it too.


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2000 Navigator. Laser Red, Every option. ,FIPK (mods), Superchip, Rear air deflector, Bug deflector, PIAA, headlights (SUPERWHITE)

Looking at Hitting 400 Hp without a blower. Using in addition, headers and duel CatBack. (If possible)
(Waiting for JBA to develope Headers)

“91” F150 4X4 Shorty “Ultimate Off Road Edition” Borge Warner T18 4 speed, Traction Lock Front and Rear Differentials., Smitty Built Duel Tube Roll Bar, Moog Super Off Road Coil Springs, Factory 2” Lift Rancho RS 9000 Shocks , Stock Front “QUAD SETUP” 33x12.5 (B.F. Goodrich) Mud Terrain Warn Winch Combo Bush Bar with Warn XD9000I Winch. Full Factory Skid Plates. 302 Long Block, K&N FIPK JBA Chrome Headers, Custom Catback using Flowmaster Muffler, Duel out side behind rear wheel.

 

ddhotshot,
I've only gotten one quote from a Midas in Encinitas. Z55, $191 installed out the door, same pipes.

I have not checked around, but that's one.
BTW: I've been reading these brds for awhile and it seems that people are pretty pleased with both performance and sound on the Ravins.

 

ddhotshot,

No offense man but last time I checked shopping around for the best price on a product was smart shopping. Heaven forbid you have to do a little searching to get a good price. And everywhere you go you'll find morons in these shops that don't know a thing about what they're talking about. I almost put a dynomax super turbo muffler on my truck but the place was overpriced and uninformed. And the other 3 places I checked out for the dynomax all had different installed prices. So who you goin to trust but yourself to find the best price. By the way since I actually have a ravin on my truck and speak from personal experience the performance is what sold me on keeping this setup. The sound was not my priority. The elimination of bottom end lag and better performance throughout the powerband is something I think is a good thing. Everyone is intitled to their own opinion just don't underestimate the performance of the Ravin.

--------------------------------------------
1998 F-150 Black & Silverfrost
4.2L V-6
extended cab, short bed
5 speed manual
3.55 limited slip

Performance:
Ravin Z55 exhaust SI/SO
K&N airfilter

Accessories:
Extang snap bedcover
Bedliner
Clifford alarm
Window tint

 

ddhotshot, basically you have two complaints about your local Midas shops and one technical issue on flow rates.

Regarding your local Midas shop(s), since the Ravins are fairly new that is to be expected. Hopefully they will inform and train the guys.

On the technical issue I have not seen the 1000 cfm mufflers, where did you get the 1000 cfm flow data? Must be straight through design of some sort, perhaps for racing where heads, hei, headers and intake changes could push it? Test procedures also effect cfm.

According the the docs the Ravin Z33 flows 375.3 and the ST Dynomax model 17692 flows 295. On the Dynomax site the state flow rate at 410 but that is for a 17733 model. I usually take some of this with a grain of salt - regardless of vendor. But granted, I am sure some flow more than the Ravin and some flow less.

But to counter your point, here is my take on the whole exhaust discussions. First, people tend to be religious and protective of their purchase decisions. This makes it fun for discussions if you keep the right attitude. For example I would hate my Ravin on my Chevelle SS big block but do like it on my truck. Variety is the spice of life.

Finally, it really depends on what someone wants. The Ravin is designed to eliminate high frequency sound and due to this objective some restriction is necessary which creates less cfm than some and more than others. Point is, if someone is looking for a combination "performance" [we could debate definition] muffler without high frequencies for a deep tone then the Ravin is the product. If someone wants with a high flow straight through design then there are other products, each with their trade offs. But like anything, too much flow and you [can] loose low end torque and normally find the ultimate hp at higher RPMs when using this type of muffler/system. I do not drive my truck at high enough rpms where completely straight though designs could be effective.

If your focusing on max cfm buy it. You didn't note your complete intake and exhaust system, but I'd be curious to know what your doing on the intake side.

Good luck.



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2001 F150 SuperCrew, 5.4 V8, 4X4, Amazon Green, loaded to the max, K&N Gen II Cold Air Induction, Ravin Z55 Performance Exhaust, Line-X.

 

ddhotshot,
Let me address a few things in your post. It sounds like you haven't purchased a Ravin so how can you claim it's a waste of money? As for time, it took me 5 minutes or so to read GoGo's first post about the Ravin products. About 10 minutes later I was on the phone to Chris, a very informative Midas shop owner, making an appointment to listen to one. Two days later I was in his shop listening to his truck. Approximately .0002 seconds after he started it up I was ordering my system. So, from start to finish I figure I wasted about no time because it was exactly what I wanted. As for performance, Monday morning I was breaking the tires lose out of the Midas parking lot. If you'll notice in my sig I do have the limited slip dif. Now, I'm no gearhead so I can't spout a bunch of flashy numbers at you indicating how much HP I gained. What I can tell you is my seat-o-pants meter spiked the first time I put the pedal down after having it installed. Now, isn't that what mods are all about? I do agree with one statement in your post however, it does sound "nice". Especially if by nice you actually mean ROCKIN'!! I do appreciate your opinion though. If we all agreed about everything there wouldn't be any boards like this would there?

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Stock Stuff:
Y2K SCab 4X4, Chesnut Metallic, 5.4L, 3.55 Limited Slip, Skid Plates, Factory AM/FM/CD, 40/60 Split Bench, Sliding Rear Window, Towing Package and Keyless Entry.

Extras so far:

• GY 305/70X16 Wrangler ATS Tires
• American Eagle Series 146 Chrome Wheels
• Ravin Z-55 3" Single In/Out Exhaust System
• WMS Velocity Tube
• K&N Filter
• Blaupunkt Houston CD Player
• Blaupunkt PCxt573 Speakers
• Clear Corner Lenses
• PIAA Super White Bulbs
• GTS Hood Deflector
• Catch-All Floor Mats
• Tinted Windows
• Bull Ring Retractable Tie-Downs
• www.f150online.com Sticker (below center brake light)
• University of Georgia Hitch Cover "GO DAWGS!"

Coming Soon:

• Clear Tail Lights
• PIAA Air Dam #30530
• PIAA 520 Series Fog Lights
• Spray-in Liner (or Herculiner haven't decided)
• Stainless Step Bars
  

Pictures:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...3401&a=8556922

www.geocities.com/onemilmhz/Truck.html

 

Another thought on CFM, what do the Ford cats flow? I'd guess the cats would be the weak link in flow capability.

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2001 F150 SuperCrew, 5.4 V8, 4X4, Amazon Green, loaded to the max, K&N Gen II Cold Air Induction, Ravin Z55 Performance Exhaust, Line-X, Access Roll Up Cover.

 

ddhotshot, you have piqued my interest in the Magnaflow. After checking with Magnaflow, to take advantage of maximum 1000 cfm they propose to replace factory cats with Car Sound catalytic converters. Don't know the flow rates of the replacement cats or the total cost of such a system - yet. As mentioned previously, I "suspect" that to take advantage of max flow systems there is more to the story. Will keep all advised.

Thanks for bringing up this topic.

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2001 F150 SuperCrew, 5.4 V8, 4X4, Amazon Green, loaded to the max, K&N Gen II Cold Air Induction, Ravin Z55 Performance Exhaust, Line-X, Access Roll Up Cover.

 

Flow rates do become more important when you are using only one muffler/pipe and are modifying higher output motors or supercharging. If you are interested in a few flow rate examples look at www.a-1performance.com

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2000 F-150 XL,RC,LB,5.4,4R70W,3.55LS,
Class III tow/Payload #3/Convenience pkgs.,
4-wheel disc/ABS,Chestnut/Parchment 40/60,
Ford bedliner & gas/wheel/spare locks,
3" cold air box modification, Superchip,
Dynomax ultra-flow welded 3" cat-back,
3" exit Y-pipe, Hellwig rear anti-sway bar,
Rancho RS9000s.




[This message has been edited by max mitchell (edited 11-04-2000).]

 

max couldn't have said it better myself.

Point being high cfm is usually "effective" on high output [rpm] engines with intake and other exhaust mods such as headers with properly sized primaries, cats, and complete "tuned" systems - for example, where exhaust pipes are not too big which would create a loss of exhaust velocity reuducing vaccum and creating more backpressure [counter to the bigger pipe is better - which isn't true].

All in all, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But to say the Ravin is a waste of time and money is streaching it a bit - especially when looking at only one performance variable at the exclusion of all others.


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2001 F150 SuperCrew, 5.4 V8, 4X4, Amazon Green, loaded to the max, K&N Gen II Cold Air Induction, Ravin Z55 Performance Exhaust, Line-X, Access Roll Up Cover.

 

Let me say it again I like the sound. If you have one and are happy good for you. My post was to inform people of what they were getting into $190 for a muffler in my opinion is a waste, dyno proven HP numbers prove there are many better choices for the money example magnaflo installed $100.00. FYI im a cop who also drives my depts sponsored dragster. I have a lot of knowledge and references on how and what makes HP so let me say this again too your motor is an air funnel (air in +air out =HP) simple. Most of the people in here are into preformance superchis, airaids, and mufflers. So my post was geared to them. I saw many posts asking about HP numbers and flow again ask any pro shop if midas's cfm ratings are real then your only talking about 1-2 HP over a flowmaster or superturbo and for $190 THATS NOT SMART SHOPPING !!!

 

Well how much would that Flowmaster or SuperTurbo cost, plus the pipes and installation? Is there that much of a difference?

------------------
2000 F150 XLT 4x4 Short Bed. Amazon Green, 5.4L, SuperCab, ORP, Tow Package, Sliding Rear Window, Electronic Shift, Keyless Entry, LT265-70-17 Tires, Clarion Pro Audio, Herculiner Bedliner, Air Silencer Removed.

1994 SVT Mustang Cobra. #1032 of 6009. Black coupe with black leather int., 3.73 rear, Bassani Exhaust, Aluminum D/S, Bridgestone RE-71 255-45-ZR17

My Home Page

 

That is 100% pure crap!!!! The thought that in the year of information a Midas store would not know of a new product offering and regional pricing at least...Please!!!!! My brother worked for those crooks for 12 years. He always told me stories of people getting front end work or brake repair they didn't need because all their mechanics are payed a commision. He laughed when I asked him about all the skuttle on here about Ravin and said a Midas guy prob. started it. That system is no better than Flowmaster or any of the others. You guy's are a bunch of sheep. Most of you could not have posible listend to enough systems to be a good judge of whats hot...whats not. He said that not one muffler over another could make enough difference in horse power in a truck that only makes 265 + or - for anyone to really notice. Damn guy's quit beating this thing to death. Those Midas people have no right to jack the price around so much. A system quoted $100.00 different store to store means their full of crap and stay away. Please no hate mail I'm just flamed over all the different quotes and misinformation my fellow F150 brothers are getting packed up their backside's from America's Favorite Un-informed Muffler Shop full of mechanics payed $8.00 per hr plus 10% of all repair charges.

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1999 oxford wht F150 4x4 s/c, 5.4, XLT, ORP, Tow pkg, Alpine/Infinity, K&N, GlassTite over the rail style topper.

 

Rky, you state "He said that not one muffler over another could make enough difference in horse power in a truck that only makes 265 + or - for anyone to really notice. "

AMEN. Paralysis by analysis.

Looks like the guys in CA are doing more packing than the rest though.

Later, heading out to pasture.



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2001 F150 SuperCrew, 5.4 V8, 4X4, Amazon Green, loaded to the max, K&N Gen II Cold Air Induction, Ravin Z55 Performance Exhaust, Line-X, Access Roll Up Cover.

 

The only thing i have about eveyone raving over the ravin (no pun intended) is that just a few months ago it was all about the flows, before that wasn't it the borlas or magnaflows. And everyone has a different opinion in sound, people were saying how the flows growled on a 6, and yet when i did it, i was disappointed. Now for a question, do muffler shops let you just check a couple different mufflers on your truck because no offense, i just dont wanna take peoples words.

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Things to come: coil spacers, 4.10 gears, Grill
ilmagill@aol.com For Pictures :
www.geocities.com/ilmagill