I'm just curious to here from some of you guys out there. Why a cat back system. For looks? Or for sound? Or just to spend money on something useless? I have read a lot of magazines that have installed cat back systems and then dynoed them. They always show a hp increase of only about 2hp. And that's with these top of the line systems,Gibson, Borla, K&N etc. Then the magazine goes on to try and justify these systems by saying," The fit was good and it has a sweet mellow tone." I guess they have to kiss *** so they can get new product to test in the future.

My question is: Why a cat back? Why not just replace the stock muffler with an already proven hp maker, Flowmaster. Repacing the muffler has proven to make the same and even greater hp gains than alot of these complete cat back systems. I don't work for Flowmaster. But these things make power and have an awesome sound. And with all the money you save, you can have a sweet chromed tip put on the end of your tail pipe or spend it on some headers. This is just my opinion and I know everybody else has thier own also. I Think these cat back systems are a waste of money. But if you have to have stainless all the way back, more power to ya,(Or is that, not that much more power to ya?) Taxman

[This message has been edited by Taxman (edited 05-12-2001).]

 

Bought mine for the sound. Installed today. Gibson Super Truck exhaust.....LOVE THE SOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Magazines rarily dog their sponsors or provide complete comparisons. Most of the cat-backs use approx. 400cfm mufflers (compared with the OEM garbage can at 200cfms) with the system being fed with the factory intermediate 2.5" pipe. That's why all of those systems have similar performance results. Why do you need larger, or 2 pipes, behind that? Why do you need pipes that outflow the muffler? Not all systems are equal. Some are smarter: higher flow muffler, mandrel bent tail section, larger exit Y-pipe, and true duals. What mfgr doesn't paint his product in the best light? There can be the argument made that the factory tailpipe section has many press bent curves reducing the 2.5" pipe even further. Anyone who actually knew exhaust principles could easily obtain a system that would produce more than 2 HP.

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2000 F-150 XL, RC, LB, 5.4L, 4R70W, 4.10LS,
Class III tow, Payload #3, & Convenience pkgs.,
4-wheel disc/ABS, Chestnut/Parchment 40/60,
Ford bedliner w/Paintsaver & gas/wheel/spare locks,
K&N F.I.P.K. w/Outwears pre-filter, Superchip,
Dynomax ultra-flow welded 3" cat-back w/ 3" Y-pipe,
Hellwig front & rear anti-sway bars, Rancho RS 9000s,
Pirelli Scorpion Zero 275/60/16s, Mobil 1, K&N oil filter.

 

I have the Gibson SS, and have noticed some torque gains, but no mileage gains. My "claim" for the torque gain is just being able to either "chirp" the tires from a standing start, to being able to "spin" them.

Still only able to "spin" them a couple feet, but better then stock. I only got the "chirp" stock. Left some rubber after the Gibson SS (and the K&N drop in too)

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1997 F150 4x4 Off Road, SuperCab, Short Box, 5.4, Royal Blue/Silver, K&N, Gibson SS, LT265/75/16 Wild Country APT's

 

Well I guess it could be a waste of money. The sound alone can help the driver feel more "powerful".
We could spend a fortune hopping up these trucks. I can't imagine many people here are in the position to spend a fortune. I've seen it said here many times: the exhaust, the air intake and the computer chip are the mods that give the "best bang for the buck". I agree. None of the three mods I've done to my truck really make "that" much difference. They do work together though. So for around six hundred dollars we can make a great truck a little better.
If nothing else, at least we are helping the economy.

Tom

 

Okay, I'll bite. I didn't get mine for HP, I have another car for that. In fact, I started fiddling with the Expy in order to stop fiddling with the car as mods are getting increasingly expensive but mod fever never really stops. I agree that it's probably money wasted if HP was what I was after.

However, my Expy is now a little more fun to drive and sounds great. Fit and sound were the two reason I picked the Gibson unit I did. (BTW, those were the same reasons I picked the cat back I did for my Vette.) There's too little horsepower to be had from muffler/cat-back changes for that to be the primary reason IMHO. In the "icing on the cake" category, I'm interested to see what happens with gas mileage... an improvement would be welcome

 

Taxman, I agree with what your saying thats why I went with true duals but in order to get a deep growl I got the 50seriesDF's. Only cost 300+the tips so its not much more than a cat back.

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2001 SuperCrew ORP 5.4L Gen I
MODS-Ramsey Brush Guard and Pro Plus 9000 winch, MAAP steps, Airaid, True Duals w/ 50 series DF muffs, Line-x, bugflector, and huskyliners.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1508480&a=11420452&f=0

 

 

Taxman,

You and others have me totally confused. I shop for sound and looks as well as the next guy, but thought cat-backs, headers, etc., were the greatest bang-for-yer-buck since sliced bread. I was getting ready to purchase for my 5.4L Crew, but 2HP? I mean
Hot Rodders have been messing with OEM equipment since Henry Ford said you can have any color you want as long as it's Black.

I bought Gibson for a previous Dodge and thought it was a significant improvement, although I only have my seat-of-the-pants impression.

I have also seen some Dyno and track comparisons that provided greater numbers. Of course, HP at the rear wheels is not always that impressive. I believe I saw tests from Hot Rod and a couple truck magazines, but I must admit, more commonly, the test results are from the exhaust manufacturers. Would they mislead us, the
consumer? I think not! (laughs)

My point is, I would like some informative feedback from F150 Online users. Taxman stated 2HP gains and nobody disagreed, thus
giving weight to that low of a number. If
performance is no better than that, then it
IS a waste of money, because the ultimate goal is to get there quicker.

Thanks.

 

Let me put it this way
My quad-exit Ravin Z33 system soudns bad ***. In fact, downtown, with 100 storey buildings for kilometres, the sound resonates, and people for 3-4 blocks all around just look around trying to figure where all the beasty noise is coming from.

Although my hp and torque haven't changed, it sure makes for a fun ride.

L8z

 

You have to realize that it is the *PEAK* numbers that are most often used in tests. It is very possibly to even lose peak HP, but gain low end torque. Higher flowing systems will often lose slightly in low end torque, but show increases on the top end of the rev range.

As examples, both from Truckin' magazine... F-150 Borla dual system - 12 HP at the rear wheels - high rpm - didn't list torque
'95 Chevy Flowmaster Force II - 3 HP and 21 lb ft at the wheels - didn't list rev ranges

As far as the comments on replacing just the muffler, it will make an improvement. Not usually as great as a full system. As for Flowmaster, they do make some good products, but others do also. If anybody really believes that a Flowmaster muffler only will produce more power than a quality cat back system, less power to ya!

In response to the question of why, in my case the power. My Gibson is quiet, and in the case of my truck I wouldn't mind if it was even "stock quiet" if I got the power increases. I went with stainless so I wouldn't have to deal with it again.

 

To Signmaster: What ever gets you through the night. It's alright. Taxman

 

I don't buy your cynical premise, taxman. I don't think you read "a LOT of magazines" and they "ALL" said the top flight systems "ALWAYS show and increase of ONLY 2hp".
Which magazines? What issues? If you want to discuss this, then please let us know your sources. I'd really like to read the articles.
My Borla split rear dyno-d out a gain of 10 (count 'em) HP. I have no loss of torque. I wanted a modest gain in an ENGINEERED system, and not a lot of noise. Some of us want better sound. Others want more power. Take your pick.
I'm quite happy, and I consider it money well spent.
And you're absolutely right. Everyone has an opinion. That's what makes this site and all the fellas so great. But if you think that just adding a Flowmaster is going to add a significant increase in your HP, then just remember to smile and wave "howdy" as I blow by.

[This message has been edited by sundog7 (edited 05-26-2001).]

 

To Sundog7: I posted my opinion to hear why people buy these cat back systems. I also posted how I feel about the systems. I did not attack anybody personally. I don't agree with you questioning my sources and I don't feel I have to give you a list of the mags I've read. I will tell you that I subsribe to two leading truck mags. So please don't call me a liar.

Did you have the dyno test done on your truck? Or did you read about a dynoed truck in a mag using your system with a different engine and hop ups?

If you got 10HP from your system, cool. But I got news for you. My friend,(Do you want his name and address?)put a $13 cherry bomb on his truck and personally had it dynoed, he gained 9HP! His truck is a stock 98 F150, all he did was replace the air cleaner,(K&N)and cut his stock muffler out and replace with the cherry bomb. Now I know that it cost much less than what you spent. But it leads me to feel only one way,.....YOU GOT RIPPED OFF! Taxman

 

Sorry taxman. Read my post again. I never used the term "liar". First, the general tone of your original post was one that said: "You're a fool if you buy an entire system". That alone is a lot of crap. And saying so, in my opinion, all but said we're a bunch of fools. Sounds like a backdoor general attack about our selections to me. But I'm a decent guy. So I asked you, in so many words, to " put up or shut up". I see you've still failed. Unless you can specify and the rest of us "fools" can become educated to somethiing more than your personal opinion, I will maintain that you're still blowing a lot of hostile, hot air. That's not "questioning your sources". That's wanting to get the truth. Sorry you can't understand the difference. Anyone can come on this board and say anything. But back it up. If you can't, you deserve any post in response.
I'll ask again in fairness: Which magazines and which issues tested systems that say they only provided a measly 2HP gain? If you don't want to bother......well, YOU were the first one to use the "L" word, not me pal.
Yes, my system was dynoed. I live in Charlotte. Lowe's Speedway? Lots of Racing businesses. I've got friends in a couple. One good friend tests the engines before actually being used. BTW, he'd also like to know which magazines you're talking about as well.
Cherry Bomb? Right. He's 100% legal and had no loss of torque either, right?

[This message has been edited by sundog7 (edited 05-27-2001).]