Not a problem. Cheers

 

Ok, I know I gonna get reamed for this..., but I have stupid question.:o

Why wasn't this a problem on the last gen. 2 valve trucks. The intake setups on both trucks seem fairly similar, and if anything the newer 3 valves have more sensors than the 2 valve. What is different about the computer, why isn't it able to correct for this lean condition by looking at the other sensors data during operation. I know that during open loop, it relies on preset tables to calculate the AF ratio, did Ford just overlook or purposely set these tables lean? I am not asking if it is a problem, that seems obvious to me, but what caused this problem on the new motor, and why can't it self correct.

I'm really sorry for asking MGDfan, but after reading all the links, spending a couple hours using the search feature, and what I can remember from reading past threads, I can't remember questions like these being answered.

Eagerly awaiting new knowledge,
-Andrew

 

From what TP tech support told me, they do self-correct. I think this issue was a rarity...and an oversight on Ford's part that affected stock vehicles and has since been corrected.

I'm not going to worry about it. If I throw a code, I'll worry then. I've read people's posts who had a k&n on their truck for 200,000 miles and everything has been fine.

 

Hi Flareside.

Well as I understand it, the pre 04's have a different MAF design - a complete self-contained unit - sensor tower in it's own venturi tube. So that part at least has a controled cross-section & flow properties.

So - it you didn't **** with that component, then usually any well designed intake ( e.g last gen AF1) would be pretty much okay. If you went for an aftermarket MAF - now you are talkin' tuning to correct again. PCM doesn't know the MAF changed.

But I'll bet there were some manufacturing/programming challenges that contributed to the issue becoing a problem in 04.

The other thing that bothers me is... I sense that the presense or absence of the factory lean condition on 04's and on some later years is being used as the determinator for intake mod safety.

The fact remains that, even on a perfectly running stock 07, if you bolt on a marginal intake, a 'Flea-bay special' ricer clone, do a sewer pipe intake mod or some other significant change, like ram air, you can still bring on an unsafe lean condition - you are STILL causing a change in that pesky transfer function that everyone by now knows & loves . And the PCM will most likely not be able to correct. Sure, most likely a CEL will be set with some consistency - I sure hope so anyway.

That's also why with JLT RAI and AF1 3.5" intakes it's stated up front that tuning is required.

It's difficult to get around the reality that you really, really will never know for sure unless it measured under controlled condtions - and I mean your specific truck.

Hope this helps .. the acknowledged gurus here can now please correct me

Cheers
Bubba

PS - DP... still would be a treat to talk to MT directly.

 

Think you meant 'gurus'.

I almost started thinking the 3.5 AF1 might be okay on my 2006 5.4, but I guess the jury is still out and it sounds like the judge is delivering the verdict anyway.

I wonder how the new Outlaw intake will size up.

 

The verdict isn't still out -- they said that the 3.5" AF1 definately needed tuning.

You should start thinking about the K&N...I bought one...but now I'm worried that if I install it I'm going to be sucking in particles and stuff. I did way too much research on it, and found too many stupid things that people are saying so I'm afraid to install it. Never even taken out of the box. I'll sell it in a little while here some time soon.

 

So the MAF sensor on the newer trucks is like a probe that drops into the intake tube and relies on the computer to tell it the diameter of the tube it's in. OK, that makes more sense, I was thinking that it was like the last generation, because it didn't matter what you did before or after the tube, it couldn't flow more than the MAF could read.

I refined my previous searches and learned a little more about the transfer function. What a great site, I absolutely love it here I have learned just as much here as I have from reading books and artciles on the same subjects.

Thanks a lot MGDfan, I appreciate your straight answers with an ignorant fellow like me, and for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us.

 

I installed the AF1 (3") ordered from Troyer Performance and the literature said no tuning necessary, just enjoy the sound and high-end HP.. and I HAVE!!

 

Thanks Stu - yeah, I was getting tired - way past my nappie time. Found a couple other mistakes too - I'm blaming it on the keyboard

On the Outlaw - may want to give TP a quick call to see if they've tested it yet.

The 3.5" AF1 will be fine - as long as you tune for it. A 3" will be good out of the box.

Cheers
bubba

 

Hey Flareside.

Thanks! I dunno if I deserve the props, as I am just an old dumb guy in camo who has no inside knowledge. I do read a lot and have talked to the TP folks - as well as found a lot of info from the real experts on this site, to whom I am forever grateful.

I have been playing with SCT's & Innovate's products for a while now.

You are right - it is a great place !

BTW - the shaving looks fantastic - someday I gotta ask you how it's done. Very nice!

Cheers, bud
Bubba

 

That looks good...is the filter an oiled filter or a paper material filter?

The AEM Brute Force is paper, right?

 

marcolando the part number is 75-5023 cai. but i'd order it over the phone cause it took them a month to get me mine because the engraving tool was down so they sent me a kit with a normal cover. still waitin for the engraved lid but i got a free oiling kit out of it. so i'd maybe call and order it over the phone and make sure of the delivery.