Been doing some cat research
#1
09-30-2012 | 07:19 PM
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From: Concord, NC
Been doing some cat research
I've had a CEL for nearly two years after my high flow install and it's much worse. The shops can't find any leaks, I'm thinking of just switching them out before inspection time later this winter. My research to date might go against the forum "gospel" but I'll share what I have found any people can make their own judgement.
A quick lesson here I learned myself. The cats a 3-way style due to
Just for some extra knowledge.
Ok so the cat of choice around here is 94106. Or O2 bung 94136. Just some reference from my searching. Each cat has a twin. So 94106 - the 0 refers to no o2 bung and the 3 refers to the bung. Again just from my research. Anyways, after talking to an exhaust shop they told me that Magnaflow had some issues with their universal cats a few years back. He told me the Heavy Metal cats are a good choice due to their higher tolerance of heat. Another side note: You'll see two types of cat internals (substrates) usually - Ceramic honeycomb and meta foil substrates.
Ok so what's my point? I talked to one of the shop workers who showed me official Magnaflow exhaust catalogs and such and he said 94106/94136 converters are OBDI. Their site shows it too and the vehicles listed are all mid 90s and below. He said I would be best off switching out the cats but I am still not sure if they are bad or if it's leaks they just can't find.
What I am proposing here is possible a louder and more fitting converter for our trucks. Technically it is not universal, but in theory why couldn't you use it since it's just the cat itself?
Meet 99206HM and 99236HM
They are a bit narrower and round body so I am thinking these suckers will be louder. The metal substrate is apparently better at filtering emissions as well. Summit has each for $95 and $103 respectively. Metal substrates are more expensive than ceramic, hence the cost difference from 94106 etc Thoughts?
A quick lesson here I learned myself. The cats a 3-way style due to
Most present-day vehicles that run on gasoline are fitted with a "three way" converter, so named because it converts the three main pollutants in automobile exhaust: an oxidizing reaction converts carbon monoxide (CO) and unburned hydrocarbons (HC), and a reduction reaction converts oxides of nitrogen (NOx) to produce carbon dioxide (CO2), nitrogen (N2), and water (H2O).
Ok so the cat of choice around here is 94106. Or O2 bung 94136. Just some reference from my searching. Each cat has a twin. So 94106 - the 0 refers to no o2 bung and the 3 refers to the bung. Again just from my research. Anyways, after talking to an exhaust shop they told me that Magnaflow had some issues with their universal cats a few years back. He told me the Heavy Metal cats are a good choice due to their higher tolerance of heat. Another side note: You'll see two types of cat internals (substrates) usually - Ceramic honeycomb and meta foil substrates.
Ceramic honeycomb catalysts have been widely used since the 1980s. They can be extruded in a variety of shapes and cell densities. Ceramics are often used where the required catalyst volume is more than is practical for wire mesh catalysts.
Ceramics make for very dimensionally stable catalyst supports over the range of operating temperatures. Ceramic substrates can carry a heavier amount of coating than metallic supports, which gives ceramics the advantage in applications where catalyst deactivators are present or where very high levels of precious metals are needed to reach the desired performance.
Ceramics make for very dimensionally stable catalyst supports over the range of operating temperatures. Ceramic substrates can carry a heavier amount of coating than metallic supports, which gives ceramics the advantage in applications where catalyst deactivators are present or where very high levels of precious metals are needed to reach the desired performance.
Metal foil, as a catalyst substrate, has some of the properties of both wire and ceramic materials. It can be formed into an endless variety of shapes, sizes and cell densities, enabling it to make larger volume pieces. It has low thermal mass, relative to a comparable ceramic, so that it heats up quickly. Metal foil can also be expanded to form a wire mesh-like material where the openings can be specifically tailored to meet your needs.
What I am proposing here is possible a louder and more fitting converter for our trucks. Technically it is not universal, but in theory why couldn't you use it since it's just the cat itself?
Meet 99206HM and 99236HM
They are a bit narrower and round body so I am thinking these suckers will be louder. The metal substrate is apparently better at filtering emissions as well. Summit has each for $95 and $103 respectively. Metal substrates are more expensive than ceramic, hence the cost difference from 94106 etc Thoughts?
Last edited by TruckGuy24; 09-30-2012 at 07:36 PM. Reason: Spelling fix
#2
09-30-2012 | 08:56 PM
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From: Long Beach, CA
#4
10-01-2012 | 05:25 AM
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From: Concord, NC
#6
10-06-2012 | 10:51 PM
#7
10-07-2012 | 04:19 PM
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#11
10-08-2012 | 03:41 AM
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From: MI
I'd never be sold with anothers leak test. Those are better done on your own and VERY easy, plus accurate as hell, Impossible to miss a leak with system cold. For you or I anyway. You've done quite a bit of research I know, I hope its not in vein, -but. I'm tellin yuh, leak test it yourself, I bet it blows your mind lol. Like, how could they miss that!
Where they like to leak, = at the O2 bungs. Just one bung leak can forward a DTC for that bank. EGR tube as well, -all the way up to the valve. Also check the welds, specially at the converter exits. You can test your system yourself in about 10 minutes real quick. 20 if your thorough. Just check the from the Y forward. Document the leaks and post up.
So has anyone informed you how far outside of parameters you actually are by chance? Are you tuned ? If so, have you defaulted to original settings, cleared the KAM, - and went from there?
Where they like to leak, = at the O2 bungs. Just one bung leak can forward a DTC for that bank. EGR tube as well, -all the way up to the valve. Also check the welds, specially at the converter exits. You can test your system yourself in about 10 minutes real quick. 20 if your thorough. Just check the from the Y forward. Document the leaks and post up.
So has anyone informed you how far outside of parameters you actually are by chance? Are you tuned ? If so, have you defaulted to original settings, cleared the KAM, - and went from there?
Last edited by jbrew; 10-08-2012 at 03:45 AM.
#14
10-08-2012 | 06:50 PM
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From: MI
Yea document the leaks, if you have enough of them. Note how bad they are as well. You'll be able tell with that test method.
So, do you have continuous CEL/MIL illumination ? At times, with 420/430 DTC's, if your just outside of the parameter margin, the CEL may disappear once in awhile. Once its off, the cat monitor has to fail efficiency readings three consecutive times before CEL illumination is achieved. What I'm getting at is,- you can half way determine how far out you are. The longer it remains off, the closer you are to set margin
Fixing possible problems yourself: With welds, -should be re-welded, just the leak area + 1" beyond actual. If the weld is totally botched, - has to be ground off. You could try to cold weld it w/JB, -personally, I've never went that route.
Products that work, there's not many, but Fire Seal does work,- IF you prep the area correctly. I think TP Tools carries it (?) Yea, -
http://www.tptools.com/p/1848,166_PO...%E2%84%A2.html
______________________________
If the O2 bung threads are leaking at the compression washer, there's only one product that works and this one isn't advertised lol. This way you don't have to replace the bung. Use a product called X-Pando. It's a 1200 degree thread sealer. Only apply this to the top 3 threads of the O2 sensor. Google that one to find, -if needed. I think it's 20 bucks tho. Also its powder form, you mix w/water therefore, you get to control consistency. Very good for high heat thread problems. At the O2's your under 1000 degrees, -just, -should be around 900 max.
____________________________________
Btw, - I absolutely hate working on exhaust systems, - always have.. Well, unless I have all new parts to work with. What really sucks is fixing some others mistake or poor workmanship from the past. And if you paid for such, the "sucks" factor becomes enhanced.. Like to the 10th power!
So, do you have continuous CEL/MIL illumination ? At times, with 420/430 DTC's, if your just outside of the parameter margin, the CEL may disappear once in awhile. Once its off, the cat monitor has to fail efficiency readings three consecutive times before CEL illumination is achieved. What I'm getting at is,- you can half way determine how far out you are. The longer it remains off, the closer you are to set margin
Fixing possible problems yourself: With welds, -should be re-welded, just the leak area + 1" beyond actual. If the weld is totally botched, - has to be ground off. You could try to cold weld it w/JB, -personally, I've never went that route.
Products that work, there's not many, but Fire Seal does work,- IF you prep the area correctly. I think TP Tools carries it (?) Yea, -
http://www.tptools.com/p/1848,166_PO...%E2%84%A2.html
______________________________
If the O2 bung threads are leaking at the compression washer, there's only one product that works and this one isn't advertised lol. This way you don't have to replace the bung. Use a product called X-Pando. It's a 1200 degree thread sealer. Only apply this to the top 3 threads of the O2 sensor. Google that one to find, -if needed. I think it's 20 bucks tho. Also its powder form, you mix w/water therefore, you get to control consistency. Very good for high heat thread problems. At the O2's your under 1000 degrees, -just, -should be around 900 max.
____________________________________
Btw, - I absolutely hate working on exhaust systems, - always have.. Well, unless I have all new parts to work with. What really sucks is fixing some others mistake or poor workmanship from the past. And if you paid for such, the "sucks" factor becomes enhanced.. Like to the 10th power!
#15
10-08-2012 | 08:23 PM
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From: Concord, NC