D@MN, wish I'd waited! (Pathfinder Armada)
#17
11-07-2003, 06:43 PM
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I didn't know that?! :eek:
Miami, tell me you were joking when you said the German's bombed Pearl Harbor! If that's the case, then I guess we shouldn't be too upset when Japan dropped that nuke on Paris & Epinal, France! 
Kidding- I KNOW you were joking. You'd have to be....
This has been a decent thread....
It's good to have debate; and- I think it's good to point out mechanical flaws. If Ford listens to their critics as well as their supporters they'll come up with one HELL of a product, everytime... We all know you can't please all the people, all the time- but you can please some of the people all of the time, and most of the people, most of the time; so that's what they should shoot for.
You guys have a great weekend!
(At least this livened the Expy/Navi board up some. This joker was quite dead for a while....)
Kidding- I KNOW you were joking. You'd have to be....
This has been a decent thread....
It's good to have debate; and- I think it's good to point out mechanical flaws. If Ford listens to their critics as well as their supporters they'll come up with one HELL of a product, everytime... We all know you can't please all the people, all the time- but you can please some of the people all of the time, and most of the people, most of the time; so that's what they should shoot for.
You guys have a great weekend!
(At least this livened the Expy/Navi board up some. This joker was quite dead for a while....)
#18
11-07-2003, 11:13 PM
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#20
11-09-2003, 11:31 AM
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Petrol,
Where did you get the information about the Armada being designed by American Engineers in California? What are the details as to their exact involvement and ownership of the total design? I'd be surprised to find out that a Nissan would let Americans make every single last decision on the development, manufacturing and production of a vehicle that has their name on the front. I'd assume that American Engineers may have been involved and may have taken a leading role with suggestions and such but I doubt they had 100% decision making ability. Also, I’d assume there is a Japanese director of Engineering in California watching over the department ensuring things are done the Japanese way.
Are the engines and transmissions designed and developed and built in US of A or are they designed, developed and manufactured and then shipped over here from Japan? If you answered yes to some of my questions then I rest my case.
I'd have little problem accepting that American Engineers influenced the design of the Armada or for that matter any Nissan products that are assembled here in our country. However, I'd be willing to bet that not all the control was in our country and I'd also bet that profits from the products don't stay in the US of A either, they go to Japan or wherever the parent company resides.
I'm pretty sure that Ford and GM are 100% controlled in this Country and profits stay here. I'm not so sure about Chrysler anymore since they've joined forces with or are owned by Daimler which is European based.
I guess it's possible that one day no one will know for sure where anything is based because world wide acquisitions with big business are taking place daily anymore. The day may come that we buy products purely by price and quality and make no allegiance to any specific country of manufacture but I hope this doesn't happen. I buy American products every chance I can and I will continue until my choice is taken away, hence my allegiance to the US of A and to its manufacturers. The more foreign products we buy or consume then the sooner the day will come that the US of A will not be self reliant. Any country can buy another’s products, not many can produce their own and export too. The US of A has been a world leader in quality automotive products from time to time and I’d hate to see that disappear because we don’t support US manufacturers.
Final statements:
When I see Japanese folks driving around in our country, it almost never fails that I see them driving a Toyota, Nissan or Honda or some other Japanese car or van even if it’s a rental, why is that? Where are all the supporters of American made products on this website, I’m starting to feel like I’m fighting a losing battle here with this thread? Are there any others that can come forward and Support TRUE American made products?
~DM~
Where did you get the information about the Armada being designed by American Engineers in California? What are the details as to their exact involvement and ownership of the total design? I'd be surprised to find out that a Nissan would let Americans make every single last decision on the development, manufacturing and production of a vehicle that has their name on the front. I'd assume that American Engineers may have been involved and may have taken a leading role with suggestions and such but I doubt they had 100% decision making ability. Also, I’d assume there is a Japanese director of Engineering in California watching over the department ensuring things are done the Japanese way.
Are the engines and transmissions designed and developed and built in US of A or are they designed, developed and manufactured and then shipped over here from Japan? If you answered yes to some of my questions then I rest my case.
I'd have little problem accepting that American Engineers influenced the design of the Armada or for that matter any Nissan products that are assembled here in our country. However, I'd be willing to bet that not all the control was in our country and I'd also bet that profits from the products don't stay in the US of A either, they go to Japan or wherever the parent company resides.
I'm pretty sure that Ford and GM are 100% controlled in this Country and profits stay here. I'm not so sure about Chrysler anymore since they've joined forces with or are owned by Daimler which is European based.
I guess it's possible that one day no one will know for sure where anything is based because world wide acquisitions with big business are taking place daily anymore. The day may come that we buy products purely by price and quality and make no allegiance to any specific country of manufacture but I hope this doesn't happen. I buy American products every chance I can and I will continue until my choice is taken away, hence my allegiance to the US of A and to its manufacturers. The more foreign products we buy or consume then the sooner the day will come that the US of A will not be self reliant. Any country can buy another’s products, not many can produce their own and export too. The US of A has been a world leader in quality automotive products from time to time and I’d hate to see that disappear because we don’t support US manufacturers.
Final statements:
When I see Japanese folks driving around in our country, it almost never fails that I see them driving a Toyota, Nissan or Honda or some other Japanese car or van even if it’s a rental, why is that? Where are all the supporters of American made products on this website, I’m starting to feel like I’m fighting a losing battle here with this thread? Are there any others that can come forward and Support TRUE American made products?
~DM~
#21
11-09-2003, 03:37 PM
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I've been a strong supporter of Ford over the years owning only Ford trucks, cars, and SUVs for the last 15 years or so. However, when I recently went car shopping, I decided on an Audi due to quality, price, styling, and performance. Ford simply had nothing in its class IMO. I look for Made in USA as much as I can too, but there is a limit to my handing over my hard earned cash just for that label.
I think some folks have a misplaced patriotism associated with some "American" corporations. Ford now also has brands of Mazda, Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover, and Aston Martin. Anyone who thinks that every "ford" branded car is uniquely designed and engineered in the US is naive. The major manufacturers often share design, manufacturing, suppliers and sales channels cross-brand, across the world. That's just the way it is in today's economy. And by the way, that generaly leads to lower prices, and better quality which is good for consumers. It can have downsides like 'cookie cutter' models that look the same under 3 different brands though as we've all seen.
Now, as for where the profits go, both Ford and Nissan, and the rest of the big makers are publicly traded companies. So the profits go to the shareholders (assuming no Enron stuff going on). The profits not returned to the shareholders go back into the company as capital investment in plant, equipment, and expenses of new jobs. So as someone raised earlier, where something is actually made is a strong indicator to me of where the "value add" is coming from. In the US, we are often considered not competitive in heavy maufacturing jobs. The fact that "foreign" makers are building plants here is significant.
As I said before, I've traditionally bought Ford and want to continue doing so if possible, but that loyalty has to be a 2 way street. They need to hold up their end of delivering the best products in the segments as well.
I think some folks have a misplaced patriotism associated with some "American" corporations. Ford now also has brands of Mazda, Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover, and Aston Martin. Anyone who thinks that every "ford" branded car is uniquely designed and engineered in the US is naive. The major manufacturers often share design, manufacturing, suppliers and sales channels cross-brand, across the world. That's just the way it is in today's economy. And by the way, that generaly leads to lower prices, and better quality which is good for consumers. It can have downsides like 'cookie cutter' models that look the same under 3 different brands though as we've all seen.
Now, as for where the profits go, both Ford and Nissan, and the rest of the big makers are publicly traded companies. So the profits go to the shareholders (assuming no Enron stuff going on). The profits not returned to the shareholders go back into the company as capital investment in plant, equipment, and expenses of new jobs. So as someone raised earlier, where something is actually made is a strong indicator to me of where the "value add" is coming from. In the US, we are often considered not competitive in heavy maufacturing jobs. The fact that "foreign" makers are building plants here is significant.
As I said before, I've traditionally bought Ford and want to continue doing so if possible, but that loyalty has to be a 2 way street. They need to hold up their end of delivering the best products in the segments as well.
Last edited by 4Xpy4; 11-09-2003 at 03:42 PM.
#22
11-09-2003, 07:15 PM
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#24
11-09-2003, 09:40 PM
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so I was thinking about buying a "Jihad by" Taliban Motors, 
.
I hear it has quite a bit more legroom than the Expedition, and they are quite a few schekels less expensive than the Expy.
Besides it doesn't matter if we keep our money in the country, right?
Waddya think? My brother is over there in Iraq risking his arske, and I guess it doesn't matter if our country has more or less of a GNP or a damaged import/export ratio because of my decision making regarding my large purchases. Where my money goes doesn't matter, does it?
Besides the homes I/others buy, the vehicle I own is the largest purchase I/others will make in our lives. It seems fitting that we take care of our own, willingly, even if it takes some accepting of inadequacies that the purchases might present; all will present inadequacies, friend.
Think of the trail your actions leave behind and then make your decision. If you feel you want the Armada, then by all means, feel free. I, for one, purchased my current truck (s), and past trucks out of respect for my country. That said, I am well aware that each truck, whether American, or of foreign origin, will have it's faults. Of greater import (Pun?) is the consequence my cash will cause.
= 
Remember the Alamo!
. I hear it has quite a bit more legroom than the Expedition, and they are quite a few schekels less expensive than the Expy.
Besides it doesn't matter if we keep our money in the country, right?
Waddya think? My brother is over there in Iraq risking his arske, and I guess it doesn't matter if our country has more or less of a GNP or a damaged import/export ratio because of my decision making regarding my large purchases. Where my money goes doesn't matter, does it?
Besides the homes I/others buy, the vehicle I own is the largest purchase I/others will make in our lives. It seems fitting that we take care of our own, willingly, even if it takes some accepting of inadequacies that the purchases might present; all will present inadequacies, friend.
Think of the trail your actions leave behind and then make your decision. If you feel you want the Armada, then by all means, feel free. I, for one, purchased my current truck (s), and past trucks out of respect for my country. That said, I am well aware that each truck, whether American, or of foreign origin, will have it's faults. Of greater import (Pun?) is the consequence my cash will cause.
= Remember the Alamo!
Last edited by Weezell; 11-09-2003 at 09:53 PM.
#25
11-09-2003, 10:38 PM
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I hate to break this to all, but the man himself, William Clay Ford Jr deserted us as well (he must be a big Osama and Pearl Harbor supporter as well).
Here is a Ford/Mazda press release associated with the launch of the Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute:
"Tribute is not only the first model jointly developed by Mazda and Ford based on the strategy of using a common architecture, but also the vehicle to lead Mazda into the coming century. From planning to manufacturing, I believe both companies learned a great deal from each other, and the success of this model in the market will give us even more knowledge as to how we can work together," Fields said. [my note: this is Mark Fields - President of Mazda - hmm sounds like an American guy to me] "This model will offer customers pleasurable driving with many new ideas that stir their emotions. Our gratitude to our customers is embodied in the Tribute, as its name indicates," he added.
William Clay Ford, Jr., chairman of Ford Motor Company, and great-grandson of the company's founder, sent a congratulatory message to Mazda employees. "Mazda and Ford have entered a new age of partnership with unprecedented sharing of expertise and technology and expanded production of vehicles at each other's plants. Mazda Tribute and Ford Escape are wonderful examples of how our companies will share vehicle architecture, while maintaining the unique brand image of our vehicles."
Hmm, so even if I just blindly give over my money for an "American" car, it might actually go to pay Japanese engineers. Uh oh, guess I'll have to go back to selecting cars based on other factors after all.
Here is a Ford/Mazda press release associated with the launch of the Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute:
"Tribute is not only the first model jointly developed by Mazda and Ford based on the strategy of using a common architecture, but also the vehicle to lead Mazda into the coming century. From planning to manufacturing, I believe both companies learned a great deal from each other, and the success of this model in the market will give us even more knowledge as to how we can work together," Fields said. [my note: this is Mark Fields - President of Mazda - hmm sounds like an American guy to me] "This model will offer customers pleasurable driving with many new ideas that stir their emotions. Our gratitude to our customers is embodied in the Tribute, as its name indicates," he added.
William Clay Ford, Jr., chairman of Ford Motor Company, and great-grandson of the company's founder, sent a congratulatory message to Mazda employees. "Mazda and Ford have entered a new age of partnership with unprecedented sharing of expertise and technology and expanded production of vehicles at each other's plants. Mazda Tribute and Ford Escape are wonderful examples of how our companies will share vehicle architecture, while maintaining the unique brand image of our vehicles."
Hmm, so even if I just blindly give over my money for an "American" car, it might actually go to pay Japanese engineers. Uh oh, guess I'll have to go back to selecting cars based on other factors after all.
#26
11-10-2003, 12:14 AM
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Hell, I guess this is all pretty silly isn't it? I'm going out tomorrow and take a look at the Armada, drive it and possibly buy one and if I buy one I'll go out and shoot myself to avoid all the embarresment and all my problems with this issue should be solved. j/k
There are so many view points on this topic and somehow I find that mine isn't worth the paper (screen) it's written on. I yield and formally step down off my soap box...
Bighersh,
Carry on with your thread, I apologize for interjecting...
Mike,
The Michelins are manufactured in Canada, I stole the Sony DVD player so that makes it American enough in my book
Later,
~DM~
There are so many view points on this topic and somehow I find that mine isn't worth the paper (screen) it's written on. I yield and formally step down off my soap box...
Bighersh,
Carry on with your thread, I apologize for interjecting...
Mike,
The Michelins are manufactured in Canada, I stole the Sony DVD player so that makes it American enough in my book
Later,
~DM~
#27
11-10-2003, 09:03 AM
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^^^ LMAO!
Daveman, BTW, those Michlins may have been made in Canada by Michlin is a French company . . . and we all know how much the French have been helping us latily . . .
BTW II, while on the subject of the frenchy frenchmen, nissan is owned by renault . . . and yes, that also is a french company
Daveman, BTW, those Michlins may have been made in Canada by Michlin is a French company . . . and we all know how much the French have been helping us latily . . .
BTW II, while on the subject of the frenchy frenchmen, nissan is owned by renault . . . and yes, that also is a french company
#28
11-10-2003, 09:06 AM
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#29
11-10-2003, 10:05 AM
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Re: I didn't know that?! :eek:
Originally posted by Bighersh
Miami, tell me you were joking when you said the German's bombed Pearl Harbor! If that's the case, then I guess we shouldn't be too upset when Japan dropped that nuke on Paris & Epinal, France!
Kidding- I KNOW you were joking. You'd have to be....
Miami, tell me you were joking when you said the German's bombed Pearl Harbor! If that's the case, then I guess we shouldn't be too upset when Japan dropped that nuke on Paris & Epinal, France!
Kidding- I KNOW you were joking. You'd have to be....
That was a line from the movie "Animal House" done by the late John Belushi.
I checked out the Armada this weekend. It's pretty impressive based upon it's stats. No test drive yet-but haven't driven a new '03 Ex yet either. They already sold me on the all the standard features, "305hp" (yea right...talk about under rated!) and 5 speed auto. I hate the thought of leaveing Ford though!!
If they only put an engine with ***** under the hood!! The Nissan Armada 4wd went 0-60 in 7 seconds and the 1/4 in a low 15 at 88 mph!!
That's faster than my first Mustang GT!!
#30
11-12-2003, 02:25 AM
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Man, I know what you mean!!
I was reading this Months Motor trend, (Well December's) where they named the 2004 SUV of the year- the VW Toureg- which defeated many new players, including the Armada.
Everybody was simply amazed at the Armada's performance.
0-60 7.0 seconds
1/4 mile: 15.10 @ 88 MPH
I had re re-read that 2 or three times for it to soak in. Those are sports coupe numbers ladies & gentlemen. You'd be hard-pressed to out-accellerate the Armada even if you're driving a Chevy Monte Carlo SS, Impala SS, or just about any sedan with fewer than 6 cylinders. My 1997 Maxima SE 5-Sp was capable of 0-60 in 6.6, and 1/4 mile in 15.5 @ 95 MPH, according to Motor trend stats at the time; however, other publications ran that number as high as 7.1 and as low as 6.3. But, that was a sports sedan, with a high-rev V-6, 190 HP (Which everyone swore was a modest number) and 3,000 lbs. Roughly, 15.78 lbs. per horsepower.
The new Armada has 305 HP (Which every magazine I've read swears is an understatement) pulling around almost 6000 lbs, so that's an approximate 19.6 lbs per HP. Even at 5,000 it would be 16.39. That kind of performance is amazing from something so big.
Well, I'm glad to see you guys have lightened up a bit. There's no point in flag-waving here. We're all American; and the little girl driving her 2003 Honda Civic to Cheerleader practice is no less American than Bubba in his Ford driving out to see about his cattle, and as someone pointed out- both companies are publicly traded- so the people that are really getting rich are the shareholders- not the Japanese or French economies. Of course, they get some money- but we benefit as well by creating jobs for auto-workers, and other jobs for the plant builders, and all teh jobs that come along with that from architectural engineering to the custodian emptying the trash at night. In the end, the competition makes everyone improve, and we all win due to increased safety, reliability and hopefully- resale value!!
The Armada is a fine vehicle. It may not be pretty to you, but it looks good to me. My wife thinks the H2 is ugly, along with the Infinity FX45- if I had the money- she'd be riding in one of those "ugly" vehicles today!! For those that value functionality over form- I don't think you'll be disappointed with either truck...
When it comes to looks though- Ford has everybody beat- with the Navigator! Show me a prettier SUV than that!!
Everybody was simply amazed at the Armada's performance.
0-60 7.0 seconds
1/4 mile: 15.10 @ 88 MPH
I had re re-read that 2 or three times for it to soak in. Those are sports coupe numbers ladies & gentlemen. You'd be hard-pressed to out-accellerate the Armada even if you're driving a Chevy Monte Carlo SS, Impala SS, or just about any sedan with fewer than 6 cylinders. My 1997 Maxima SE 5-Sp was capable of 0-60 in 6.6, and 1/4 mile in 15.5 @ 95 MPH, according to Motor trend stats at the time; however, other publications ran that number as high as 7.1 and as low as 6.3. But, that was a sports sedan, with a high-rev V-6, 190 HP (Which everyone swore was a modest number) and 3,000 lbs. Roughly, 15.78 lbs. per horsepower.
The new Armada has 305 HP (Which every magazine I've read swears is an understatement) pulling around almost 6000 lbs, so that's an approximate 19.6 lbs per HP. Even at 5,000 it would be 16.39. That kind of performance is amazing from something so big.
Well, I'm glad to see you guys have lightened up a bit. There's no point in flag-waving here. We're all American; and the little girl driving her 2003 Honda Civic to Cheerleader practice is no less American than Bubba in his Ford driving out to see about his cattle, and as someone pointed out- both companies are publicly traded- so the people that are really getting rich are the shareholders- not the Japanese or French economies. Of course, they get some money- but we benefit as well by creating jobs for auto-workers, and other jobs for the plant builders, and all teh jobs that come along with that from architectural engineering to the custodian emptying the trash at night. In the end, the competition makes everyone improve, and we all win due to increased safety, reliability and hopefully- resale value!!
The Armada is a fine vehicle. It may not be pretty to you, but it looks good to me. My wife thinks the H2 is ugly, along with the Infinity FX45- if I had the money- she'd be riding in one of those "ugly" vehicles today!! For those that value functionality over form- I don't think you'll be disappointed with either truck...
When it comes to looks though- Ford has everybody beat- with the Navigator! Show me a prettier SUV than that!!