I have a 2004 Navigator. Does anyone really the difference between the two other than cosmetics?

 

Enless you conpair the EB(Eddie Bauer), there in not much that that.

 

On a 2004, the engine on an expy can be a 2 valve per cyl. 4.6 or 5.4. A navi is a 4 valve per cylinder 5.4. 18" wheels vs. 17". I guess you already know that most things that are optional on expy's are standard on a navigator like all navigators have 4 wheel air suspension, power fold mirrors, memory seats, reverse sensors, etc.

 

I agree.

 

My Eddie Bauer has the memory seats, reverse sensors, wheel air suspension on the rear. But did PAY extra for it.

 

So you don't need premium fuel in the Nav now?

 

That would make sense wouldn't it, but the three valve '05's require premium in the Navi's. Don't know why they would other than since it's Ford's idea of a premium vehicle I guess they fiqure it needs premium fuel.

One other difference between the 05 navis and expys is that the Navi has a five speed or is it six speed auto instead of the four speed in the Expy.

 

I have always run regular unleaded in my 01, and 03 navigators. I only hear a very quick spark knock sometimes if i jab the throttle.

 

When you run below the recommended octane rating you cause the knock sensors to retard the timing to avoid serious damage. Eventually the computer figures out that due to driving habits (yours) the timing will be basically be permenently retarded. So what know happens is that the driver will then compensate for the loss of power by using more fuel. Usually end result is that for the few bucks you think that you've saved in fuel you now get worse fuel mileage. Not to mention the possibility of melting a piston.

Personally I've never figured out why someone would buy a $50k vehicle and then skimp on fuel.

I challenge you in your '03 to check your fuel mileage after a trip,our your routine run and then fill up with premium and good top tier fuel at that, and then reset your computer by unplugging the battery and turning on the lights. The result is almost always a better Mpg.

For our Navi my wife driving gets about 13.9mpg on Chevron or Texaco supreme. 3/4 in town the rest of course highway. On a trip with me driving I get about 14.5 cruise set at 80 and several blasts into the triple digits in the desert. Speaking of that it would be nearly impossible to hear the knock at a high speed due to road and wind noise. Good luck.

 

I know how it works, i've been a Ford Master Tech in Engine and Chassis for the past 10 years, just left ford recently. Look up my posts in the engine and electrical sections from the past 5 or 6 years. The way the knock sensor works on these is as follows:

There is a normal section of data in the PCM for controlling timing advance. Then there is another, alternate table that has advanced curve rates (up to 7 degrees extra). If the vehicle even uses data from the knock sensor ( some, including a 99-04 lightning, do not even have the capability of making changes based off the ks) then it will use values from the alternate table as long as the voltage on the return of the ks stays below a certain level. The vehicle will perform just fine using the standard timing tables though. Even if the engine was detonating significantly, the PCM cannot "retard" the timing any past the base table values. And 7 degrees of timing at cruise makes little to no difference in fuel mileage.

I do mostly city driving, average 14.5-15 MPG, i drove it from NC to NJ in april and averaged 17 MPG for that trip. I do have a 2wd though.

Also, i only paid 28 grand for my 03 with 32k miles on it.

 

That's great for you. You managed to get a good deal on a Navi, but back to my point. Do a comparison between the the two fuels and then come back and through it in my face. BTW I never asked how much you paid for it but I am glad you got a good price. In fact you should buy me a beer, because if it wasn't for people like me there would be no used vehicles for people like you to buy.

FWIW the knock sensors are turned off in the L's because the S/C makes too much noise and the sensors get fooled. But then you knew this already I'm sure.

 

I can't see how the 3V in a Navigator requires premium fuel; I've got the same engine in my '04 F150 and my mom's '05 Expedition, and they both run fine off regular. Lower engine speed required for peak torque and the ability to run 87 octane was two high points I remember when there was talk about going to the 3V in Navigators. I personally dislike Navigators, but that comes from working with them day in and day out.

 

i cant because im not going to buy any premium fuel.


you said you didnt understand why someone would pay 50,000 for a vehicle in response to my first post.

i guarantee you i have bought more $ worth of brand new vehicles from ford. I have bought over 20 new vehicles in the last 10 years, and i have window stickers and bills of sale that i can scan. Just this past year, i bought 2 new 2004 4wd lariat supercrews, the year before, 2003 eddie bauer expedition 2003 4wd lariat supercrew, 2003 4wd lariat supercab, year before that 2 different 2002 4wd lariat supercrews, 2002 4wd lariat supercab, and so on.

These have all been bought by me brand new since 2001.
http://www.buildabox.net/pasttrucks/IMG_1880.JPG
http://www.jlmicro.com/f150/IMG_2099.JPG
http://www.buildabox.net/expedition/IMG_0733.jpg
http://www.buildabox.net/pasttrucks/03supercrew.jpg
http://www.buildabox.net/pasttrucks/02beige_2.jpg
http://www.buildabox.net/pasttrucks/02screw_1.jpg
http://www.buildabox.net/pasttrucks/fx4screw.jpg
http://www.buildabox.net/pasttrucks/01beige_2.jpg
http://www.buildabox.net/pasttrucks/01screw_2.jpg
http://www.buildabox.net/pasttrucks/01white_2.jpg
http://www.buildabox.net/pasttrucks/lightning_2.jpg

and heres a couple of the used vehicles ive had in-between
http://www.buildabox.net/caddy/IMG_1819.JPG
http://www.buildabox.net/navi/IMG_1417.JPG
http://www.jlmicro.com/navigator/IMG_2555.JPG


yep, i mentioned something about it back in 2002, https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...t=knock+sensor

 

i was wrong, out of the 47 vehicles ive owned, only 18 of them were brand new.


1982 honda accord - used
1986 tempo - used
1984 mustang 4cyl converted to v8 - used
1990 lx 5.0 hatch grey - used
1994 F150supercab white - used
1994 mustang gt black - used
1988 lx 50 hatch red - used
1990 lx 50 coupe black - used
1994 cobra white - used
1994 f150supercab blue - used
1990 mustang gt white - used
1989 thunderbird supercoupe - used
1996 mustang gt silver - new
1997 f150 reg cab red - new
1989 lx 50 black - used
1987 mustang 4cyl converted to v8 - used
1994 f350 supercab dually - used
1996 mustang gt green - used
1997 f150 supercab white - new
1997 f350 dually crew cab - new
1998 f150 supercab red lariat - new
1998 f150 supercab black lariat - used
1999 gmc z71 white - used
1999 f250 supercab white - used
2000 f350 dually crew cab - new
1997 f150 supercab red lariat - used
2001 f150 supercab white lariat - new
2001 lightning white - new
2001 f150 supercrew green lariat - new
2001 f150 supercab beige lariat - new
2002 f150 supercrew gray lariat - new
2002 f150 supercrew white lariat - new
1997 f150 supercab red lariat - used
2000 f150 supercab white lariat - used
2002 f150 supercab beige lariat - new
2003 f150 supercrew beige lariat - new
2000 f150 supercab green lariat - used
2003 f150 supercab white lariat - new
2003 expedition eddie bauer white - new
2001 navigator tan - used
2002 escalade white - used
2002 tahoe tan - used
2001 navigator tan (different one) - used
2004 f150 4x4 supercrew lariat black - new
2001 acura tl - used
2004 f150 4x4 supercrew lariat blue - new
2003 navigator - used

 

Well you got me, good for you. It's amazing all that money spent on vehicles and you can't spend .25 more a gallon for recommeded fuel. Something just doesn't add up but then again I really couldn't give a .......

I do have to say buddy that I had no idea Ford techs make that kind of dough. Maybe that explains the shop rates. Good luck.