Hey Guys,

Well i finally did it, after weeks of thinking about it.

I ordered the Kenne-Bell Supercharger kit for my 5.4L from a local shop here in Buffalo, NY, Kennedy's Dynotune. I am also going to have them install it since they have so much expirence doing these kits. I paid $3550 or the complete kit, then the shop wants $750 for the install which includes the Dynotuning time, with the great 7% tax that is $4600. I also just ordered a complete set of guages to, i got the autometer triple A-pillar pod with a boost/vac, tranny temp, and exhaust gas temp guages, i know i should of got a fuel pressure guage also but i tow a lot and i need to know if the tranny is happy. I should get everything installed by the end of june. I really can't wait.

I will keep everybody updated on the performance and the install.

I now need to sell my Air Raid kit and my superchip for the code ZUT4, if you are interested email me.

 

You are a lucky guy. Keep us updated. What psi will you be running? I wonder what a blown expy would run at the track. 14s?

 

$750 seems pretty steep for a kennebell install. It's without question the easiest blower to install on any car. Does that $750 include a chip to go with the dynotuning time?

I'd get a fuel pressure gauge rather then the exhaust temp guage. What injectors are you going with? or are you going to run a FMU?

Anyhow, congrats on the purchase. Hopefully KB includes a bypass valve in the kit, it needs it. I had one on my mustang, a fun blower with all the torque it makes, perfect for a heavy expy. It's also whisper quiet, little growl at WOT.

 

I am impressed....I want a KB blower so bad I can't stand it....just don't have the $$$$$$$$...

I am originally from Buffalo, and really miss it, even with the though winters...

So, you got me on two counts...good luck and smiles from St Louis

BTW, $750 is the lower end of install prices that I have looked into here...I was quoted as high as $1400 for the KB install....

 

I've not looked at the specifics of the install on an expy, but it's just an upper manifold replacement. On my 95GT the swap took all of one hour. So figure 5 hours for a shop, padded - $350.

$1400 = 20 hours at the going rate of $70/hr. That twinturbo install time.

-d

 

Thanks guys,


I cant wait either, i am going tomarrow to see when he can get the blower and when he can get me in to do the install.


edamon:

the shop charges $68 a hour for work, you need to remove thye manifold and install the blower, but if you havent notcied recently a engine in a f150/expy is much more covered than that of a 95 rustang, sorry mustang, so it will require more time to remove the companents involved. Also installing the blower, hooking up all my guages, and rerouting hoses, wires, powersteering pump. It also included dynotuneing time before and after to get the baseline and then making sure after that the supercharger is properly installed. the shop charges $125 a hour for dynotime. so lets just say i have 2 hours on the dyno= $250 and then 4-5 hours on the install that makes much more sense. There is also this factor that cannot be put into a dollar figure, it is called piece of mind, now i can do about anything when it comes to cars. this is my everyday driver and i really do not like working on my daily drivers just because if there is a problem "I" have to fix it at "MY" expense. so when i have a shop do it, and at a price where they make money and i am still happy. it makes a lot more sense then me and my buddy spending the weekend doing it and maybe doing someting wrong that would hurt my engine or truck. now if they screw up, it is there problem and i can have "THEM" fix it.

Does this make more sense to you now?

saving money is important but spending extra for piece of mind is another. This shop is a registered Kenne-Bell supercharger dealer so if i ever have a problem and i am not in the area i can call Kenne-bell and have them direct me to the nearest install center and have them fix the problem and still have the warrenty on the product. what most people do not understand is that if you install the product many compaines will void the warrenty if the install is done wrong. this install will not me done wrong and i will have the proof since it was installed at a certified Kenne-Bell dealer.


Scott

 

Scott, Glad to hear about you upgrade! I have been lusting after a SC for quite some time. I agree with you on letting a shop that has tons of experiance handle the install as well. Even a simple plug change isn't that with these trucks. I also agree with the wisdom of have it dyno tuned by pros as detonation can kill a SC motor quick.

Let us know how it turns out and maybe post a before and after dyno sheet

 

justify it however you want scott, it's not my car. if it makes you happy then by all means, do it.

however, here are two other pieces of info for your piece of mind since you felt the need to educate me, I'll share some stuff with you:

1) kenne bell's customer service - wait till you need it. Jim Bell will blame everything and I mean everything on any other part in the car, the installers, the weather you name it, before he'll take responsiblity. I've fought with him and I can name about 20 other people I know personally that have. Try this.. call the number listed as their "tech support", if it every picks up (read: not busy) I'll give you a golden twinkie or ask for a list of their "install centers" lol. Vortech, kennebell is not.

2) regardless of the install, you seem to forget that the good possibility you'll burn up a piston or blow a head gasket. No one is going to be paying for this but you. I certainly hope they are tuning with a wideband a/f meter. 2 hours of dynotuning is certainly optimistic, I'll venture a guess it won't be on there for longer then 30-45minutes. You don't mention what kind of tuning they are doing? FMU or custom chip (hope it's autologic).

-d

 

the read I got was more that ScottyBones was just trying to explain (almost defend) his decision to have his S/C installed by a pro.

BTW, I have heard a few complain of problems with KB customer service but in their (KB's) defense I have also heard many say they are more then pleased.

As for Vortec it isn't, well for a 5,000 lb daily driver truck a Vortec or any other centrifical S/C would not be my personal choice. It has nothing to do with quality but instead the lack of low rpm boost the centrifical compressors deliver.

And now my real point in this response. . .

at least let the guy have a few days of S/C driving enjoyment before we start railing against his selection of vendors. I mean I am leaning towards the Magnacharger unit (haven't plunked down any $$$ yet though so I guess I welcome and want to hear any suggestions that anyone might have to get me leaning towards any other.

 

edamon,

i guess the old saying is " opinions are like a$$holes, everybody's got one" i am not going to try and defend myself anymore to you because i really do not care if you think i am wrong for having bought the KB. One thing, the shop i am buying it from and having it installed at is very close with KB. they have the fastest 5.0L Kenne-bell mustang in the world. they have been in countless magazines, and when you search for kenne-bell on google the first site that comes up is kenne-bell's corp site, next is the kenne-bell owners forum, and third is the shop that is installing the product for me. This shop will be in the next kenne-bell catalog with a full page ad. I will never have to reall deal with kenne-bell directly because i am having one of their dealers install it for me, i can call my dealer and complain to them. I am done now talking to you.


Petrol,

Thanks for the defense with this guy, i am a moderator over at the largest jeep BBS on the internet and we usually ban newbies like this guy when they start causing ***** with the older members.

 

Newbies? I've forgotten more about engines and power adders then you'll hope to know in this life time. I've had superchargers on cars since 1994.

Wow, Kenne Bell finally entered the "1990's" and got themselves a website. We'll see if it ever go live.

The number one Kenne Bell shop in the country was Dynotech Performance in Ohio (you know that neat Flowzilla intake that KB is now selling? that was designed by Tim Ellis of Dynotech). Of course go read on the corral archives or the 50Mailinglist archives if you want to find out why they dropped the KB line.

I've owned a KB, I had one blow up and I've delt with KB on it, along with about 5-6 other people and it's nothing but problems. One of them finally got KB to return the kit just 2 weeks ago.

It's a GREAT BLOWER, the whipple part, the rest of the kit and support from KB is the part that sucks. Thats all they make, is the inlet and brackets.

All I can say is the following: pray your kit has a bypass valve, if it doesn't, call KB and ask them why they don't think it's necessary (they didn't put one on either the 5.0 kit or the Cobra Kit, it's a $300 option for a junk setup from them). However, every other company that sells superchargers has included a quality bypass kit.

If you want to go thru life with blinders on thats fine with me. However, you should at least have some understanding what you are getting it into. Do you even know what ratio fmu they plan on using? or if it's custom chip + injectors, whose software? what MAF and is it coming with a flow sheet so you can program the proper transfer function (pegging your MAF +5v is a quick way to burn a hole in a piston). This isn't a set of tires you are having put on, why on take a minute to understand it, rather then "my shop is handling it all for me", opps fellas the cars broken "the shop is handling it for me".

Petrol - I agree, a novi or a vortech is probably not the best choice, however, their quality and customer service is LIGHT years ahead of KB. I've owned all three. Plus with the centri's, you can always pulley down and get the boost up early. Expy isn't good past 5000rpm anyhow, so you don't need to worry about seeing 15PSI on a 2.93 pulley.

I'd like to see someone make a single turbo kit for the expy. Best of both worlds.

-d

 

I really appreshiate your concern for myself and my truck.

I am still learning about superchargers on these new engines, but if you want to go head to head with anything else, axles, gears, lockers, suspensions, anything 4wd related i am game, and using your words mr. knowitall, i have forgotten more about this stuff then you will ever know.

My kit does have a bypass valve.

My kit has a chip that they program for my kit. if i need it in the future i will add a ignition booster and a fuel pump booster if needed.

My goals for this and your goals for a supercharger are completely different. I am going for improved TOWING. this is why i went with the KB(whipple type) supercharger. I was actually planning on running a ATI procharger but it does not produce its full boost until i get it high RPM's. which is not what i want. If i was going for total street performance i would not run a 4x4 expedition. i would not run a Phord at all. the last car i would choose is a mustang.

My dealer/installer has told me that kenne-bell has the worst customer service, and most times kenne-bell will tell the customer to F*ck off. I UNDERSTAND THIS. he told me this, but he and his shop have a very good relationship with KB and he has promised me that i will NEVER have to call KB about any of my problems. if i have a problem i call my shop and then he deals with KB directly. This shop also sells paxton, ATI, and Powerdyne superchargers and i went into him telling him i was most interested in the ATI setup. we went through the pros and cons of each setup and for my application he felt that the KB design would be the best. the ATI is more expensive and it is much harder to install, so that means more $$$ for the shop. but did he reconmend it to me, NO!

I do not know much about the Fuel Management system yet and this is why i decided that i would not deal with this information. I am going to run the stock injectors with the KB chip, and then i might put my GMS MAF in and have the KB chip reburned when my truck is on the dyno. If i do not like the KB chip i will change it, if i feel that i am seeing too high EGT temps i will install a water injection system. If i want it to me more powerful i will make the nessecary upgrades to get the performance i want. But i really do not want to spend all this extra money at this time when the stock KB kit maybe all i want.

if you want feel free to check out the shops site at
http://www.kennedysdynotune.com/

If you have any 'constructive' tips for me, please i would love to hear them.

 

Well, let me say this got a tad out of hand, since I was just originally commenting on the excessive price for the installation (which btw, I still believe is, but that is neither hear nor there).

So I'll offer some constructive tips.

Kenne bell's "chip"

Make sure when they dyno the truck they have a wide-band a/f meter on the car. Kenne Bell offers some of the worst mail order chips you can put on a truck/car. I just had a friend run one that came with his kit, blew the head gaskets on his 5.0 on the first run. Not a big deal on a 5.0, since it takes half a day to swap, but expensive on a 5.4. The A/F ratio shouldn't go over 12.5:1 anywhere in the band, and to be "safe" (and make good power) 11.5-12.0 is ideal.

Be ready to spend the money to have the chip re-cut on the dyno. The mod motors have a very good head seal compared to the old pushrod motors, this means the pistons will give before the gaskets will. A re-burn for a chip is much less costly then a new shortblock.

Another thing to keep in mind is pegging the MAF. Pegging means the MAF sends a voltage beyond it's range to the computer because the airflow exceeds by a sigificant margin what the MAF was flowed for from the factory. When the cpu gets a voltage out of range all hell breaks loose, it pulls timing, adds timing, you name it. This will cause a bad condition fast, and expensive one.
Ask the shop what their experience is with the stock expy MAF.

I'd only put that GMS MAF in if you have a flow chart for it, it's a Pro-M re-labeled, and they generally ship a flow chart with their meters.

Why is this important? The flow chart allows the chip to be programmed with the right MAF transfer function. This is an internal table that has voltage to CFM. So the computer knows what voltage signal it receives equals how much air is coming into the engine. Without that information to program into a chip, I'd not put any aftermarket MAF on the vehicle. The meters they sell that are "calibrated" for a specific injector size are nonsense. It's a hack, they simply attenuate the voltage sent to the computer to make the car run OK. Since less voltage = less CFM the computer puts in less fuel and the larger injectors don't flood the engine. This isn't a "huge" deal in N/A cars, but supercharger cars it can be costly, especially since timing is calculated off this same table.

Since I belive the 5.4L ships with 19# injectors (I'm not 100% sure, I just got a expy) then I suspect they have to include an FMU. This device simply constricts the return fuel line, raising pressire to the injectors. More pressure to the injectors, they deliver more fuel and act like a larger injector. Two problems with FMU's, one is as the pressure goes up, especially with a 12:1 or 10:1 FMU and the fuel pressures exceed 75PSI, the fuel hits the inner walls and tends to "foam up". Another is as the fuel pressure rises, the fuel pump efficiency drops off dramatically, i.e. less fuel delivered. To compensate for this some companies offer an inline fuel pump like the T-rex from vortech, or kenne bell offers it's "boost-a-pump" which allows you to increase voltage to the pump. Without either device, I'd not use an fuel pump smaller then 255LPH. With one of the above units a 190LPH will suffice.

To run without an FMU, just pump and chip, you'll need at least 30PSI injectors. However, I'd look for a set of 36# or a set of 42# injectors from an Lightning truck. Which is interesting to mention.. your truck with the KB, will make as much, if not more HP then the Lightning, look at the fuel system they use.

The fuel system is the life blood of a supercharged vehicle. It's the difference between having fun and spending $$ on a rebuild. Which all can occur on the first spin around the block.

You don't need water injection on your setup, it's mild. You just need a good tune and fuel system.

If at all possible, get a chip cut with the Autologic software. It's FAR superior to anything else out there (superchips, etc). There is no equal. I believe LaRocca's Peformance does autologic chips and is in NY (732) 723-1111. There is no comparison in the number of the parameters the autologic can set v.s. superchips.

I understand not wanted to spend a lot upfront. You've already got $3500 or so out in the kit. However, do not short change the fuel delivery, it's a pay me now or pay me more later deal.

I would bring all of this up with the shop you are using and see what their thoughts are. I've had plenty of my own supercharged cars and many of my friends are running in the 9's and 10's. It's an area I've got a bit of experience in. I also know the inventor of autologic chips, who really pioneered this technology and ford uses for consulting to get their cars to pass EPA requirements. It's also the defacto chip for the supercharged/turbocharged mustang community.

-d

 

ScottyBones

Man, I'm jealous! Congrat's and keep us posted. Especially once you start towing and can compare. I'm now towing a beast and although the Expy has surpised me in the way it handles 7500#, I'd like to have some more power.

By the way, a quick funny Chevy v. Ford story. I'm coming home wiht the boat the other day and traffic slows way down. I see ahead a boat, an old 20'-21' Galaxy or something like that. Can't weight more than 3000-3500#'s. We're slowing bt time going up a hill and I'm thinking they must be towing with a Chevette.

Traffic is passing on the left big time and baking up a little since we're losing 15-20 MPH on every overpass and on the downside we're only getting to about 50 befoe we have to slow up again. I finally I get a break going up another overpass, I pull out and go. I blow by (started off at about 40 MPH and I'm passing at about 60 MPH up hill) and I look as I pass and see the driver of the "SUBURBAN" almost sticking his foot out the door to push himself along. He looks up and see's the Expy and I blow by and then gets this *look* as he looks "up" and sees the boat go by.

Ok, in reality something had to be going on. Maybe a 2:73 gear and a 305 or something but the look as I passed up a hill dragging 7500# behind the Expy was kinda fun. Imagine if it were SC'd!

 

ScottyBones;

I got the Magnacharger for the same reason you got the KB - towing. I agree that for towing a centrifigal is not the way.

I installed it myself (with a friend) and it was a BIG project. I am very happy with the increased power towing - the extra power comes on at around 1500rpm and the difference at 3000rpm is amazing.

I looked at KB as well and decided (based on feedback from a number of sources) that I wasn't going to give my money to someone with the "legendary" service of KB. If there was someone local who could provide the support that KB won't, then I might have felt different.

Let us know how it works out.

Ian