My F-250 horror story...just filed lemon law
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02-16-2001, 12:49 AM
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My F-250 horror story...just filed lemon law
I realize this is a LONG post, but this is the letter I wrote to Ford concerning my F-250 Superduty.
To whom it may concern,
I am writing this letter to inform you of the problems I am having with my Ford truck and the dealership at which I purchased it.
Some of the paper work is in the vehicle at the dealership's garage so a few dates will be approximate. If needed, I can supply you with actual dates. In March of last year, I purchased a brand new 2000 Ford F250, Superduty from Vittengl Ford, Inc. in Comstock, New York as a pleasure vehicle and to tow my horses. In September of last year I heard and felt a clunking in the front end and what seemed like possibly a cable hitting the underside of the truck where my foot rests on the floor and a 'grinding' sound, almost like rusty springs. I made an appointment for this to be checked out. The mechanic first checked my tires and said they were worn unevenly and that was most likely the problem and rotating them would eliminate this. I insisted that he go for a test drive with me at which time he felt and heard the clunking, and whatever was hitting the underside of the truck. Before we got back to the garage he told me he was pretty sure it was a bad U-joint and to leave the truck for the day. When I went to pick it up, he said it was simply a piece of plastic left on spring that had been overlooked when the truck came in from the factory and the problem was taken care of when they took it off. I asked why it suddenly would start after driving it for 7 months if it had been there all along and he told me it had just come loose enough to be noticed. I did not receive an invoice stating that this was the problem, or any invoice for that matter. For some reason, this was not documented on paper. Thinking that this would be the end of it when I left, I did not give it a second thought to request one. I drove the truck home, only to find that the problem was still there. A few days later I brought it back to have the tires rotated as they did not do them the first time and to have the problem checked out again. They determined that the front shocks were loose and tightened the bolts, assuring me that this was the cause of the problem. I drove it back home and it had not changed at all. I brought it in again and they decide this time that my hubs were locking and not engaging and replaced those, assuring me this was the problem after all. The day I brought it in to have these parts replaced, the mechanic I had had all along had been fired. Someone new put the parts on. They once again assured me all was fixed now. I drove it home, and it was still the same way. I brought it back in and ask for someone else to drive it with me so there was no question as to what was wrong. The mechanic they sent out was the one that had replaced the hubs. He told me he wasn't even their mechanic, but they had 'borrowed him' from their Jeep dealership in another part of the state until they could find a replacement for the one they had fired. He said when he put the hubs on, he didn't know the history of the vehicle so did not test drive it after the new parts were installed. He also felt and heard all the things that were happening during our test drive. His feeling was that it was a tie rod and ordered the parts he needed. The day I brought it in to have these put on, I asked that he do the work, but he was no longer with them there. Later that day when I got in my truck to drive it home and to check if the problem was still there, the whole steering wheel was turned almost upside down. I went back inside to ask what happened to it and I was told simply that they didn't have any time to do an alignment and I'd need to bring it back at a later date. At first, I thought that maybe we were getting someplace with the original problem because although it was still there, it seemed to lessen. But the farther I drove it, it was back to square one. I brought it back in again and they told me it is a problem in the suspension, but we are now waiting for the correct parts as they were sent the wrong ones.
I contacted the NY Attorney General and just received the lemon law application. I have 17,000 miles on my truck. I know that 4 unsuccessful repair attempts must be made before 18,000 miles to qualify for the lemon law. If you count the plastic part they forgot to take off, I am there, though I do not have documentation of this. If not, I will be once they fix the suspension, provided that was not the problem and I haven't gone over the allowed mileage. I told Vittengl's that I was not driving the truck 1 more mile until the latest repair is made so that I do not go over this amount. Each time I drive my truck there it is 25 miles one way. I had asked for a loaner car a few times, but they didn't have one available except for this last time so someone has to drive me there, adding 50 miles to their vehicle down and back, then another 50 to pick it up, plus another 25 on mine. I have added several hundred miles just to my truck alone while they keep assuring me that every attempt is the last.
Where I am at now with Mr. Vittengl is that in his findings, and in his words "it would do no good for me to file under the lemon law because this is not a safety issue, only a noise problem." Since when is a part from a vehicle that comes up and strikes the bottom of it a 'noise problem'? He even "guaranteed" my safety. I do not see how anyone can guarantee anything at this point considering the fact that three of their 'best mechanics' have test driven this vehicle with me and each one had a different diagnosis. And each one assuring me that their diagnosis was the correct one. The more they look, the more they find wrong. I can only wonder what is next? And how can anyone be sure of my safety or that of my horses? What a tragedy it would be should something let loose in the front end of this vehicle while I am hauling my horses. When I attend rodeo events, I am hauling 3 horses and a top of the line trailer for a combined approximate value of $47,000. One thing that is certain is that if I or my horses get injured due to the above mentioned problems, I will sue for a lot more than my truck is worth.
I am around this same type of vehicle at several of the horse events I have been to. I've asked some of my friends that own these trucks if I could drive them to see if what I'm experiencing is just something that happens every once in a while to trucks here and there or is just my truck. So far, all have been fine. But it sure makes these people hauling their performance horses in new Ford trucks to be aware that just because they have a brand new truck doesn't mean that something couldn't go wrong at any time. It has made people take notice of the way Vittengl's is not giving me quality service after the sale, and these are people that trade in their vehicles for the latest styles every couple of years. We take for granted that 'new' means 'perfect and safe'. I was one of those people. It bothers me to think of how many times I loaded up my animals, headed out for a rodeo hours away somewhere thinking I was perfectly safe, yet something was definitely wrong with my truck. I am thankful nothing happened as of yet, but what if it had or does? I travel long distances alone at night to attend these events. I have missed several of them due to the fact that I am afraid that something is wrong with the front end and this truck is going to break down. That's if I'm lucky enough to just have the truck inoperable at the time. There are far worse possibilities.
One other problem I am having is with the brakes. Almost since the very beginning, they have not felt like a new vehicle should. I have to push hard on them and almost all the way to the floor, even before I had the trailer hitch installed so it is in no way related to that. In the past month, at different times when braking it pulls sharply and immediatly to the right and it smells very hot like rubber is burning. The last time it happened, I had my horse trailer loaded and the sudden pull caused me to go off the shoulder of the road. Luckily I had room to recover. I had the brakes on the trailer checked and they were fine. This is a brand new trailer and under normal circumstances I would not have even given it a thought that it could be the trailer brakes. But as I've come to know, brand new doesn't mean perfect. I've asked a few times to have the truck brakes checked, but they just say they are working to specification.
In closing, I would like to say that if my truck is not fixed to my satisfaction I feel I am not being unreasonable in asking for a replacement vehicle. I'm not asking for a brand new truck, a comparable one would resolve this. One that I feel confident and safe to drive. At the very least, I would like for Mr. Vittengl to put in writing that he personally guarantees the safety of myself and my horses from any injury resulting from this problem as he stated in our conversation on January 26.
Where do I go from here to resolve this issue before proceeding with filing for the lemon law?
<<<<<<<<<<<<&l t;<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<&l t;<<<<<<<
Since this letter, I had a new suspension put in my truck. That lasted 2 weeks, and we are back to square one. I notified Ford that I filed with the Lemon Law, and they in return said they were initiating the Dispute Settlement Board themselves and mailing me an application. I'm not sure exactly what this is, but if it voids any rights I have to the lemon law, I am not going thru with it. Has anyone reading this gone thru the lemon law successfully? I know I qualify, as the NY law states it has to be 4 unsuccessful repair attemps. I have had 5 now. Thanks for taking the time to read this, I know it's long!
To whom it may concern,
I am writing this letter to inform you of the problems I am having with my Ford truck and the dealership at which I purchased it.
Some of the paper work is in the vehicle at the dealership's garage so a few dates will be approximate. If needed, I can supply you with actual dates. In March of last year, I purchased a brand new 2000 Ford F250, Superduty from Vittengl Ford, Inc. in Comstock, New York as a pleasure vehicle and to tow my horses. In September of last year I heard and felt a clunking in the front end and what seemed like possibly a cable hitting the underside of the truck where my foot rests on the floor and a 'grinding' sound, almost like rusty springs. I made an appointment for this to be checked out. The mechanic first checked my tires and said they were worn unevenly and that was most likely the problem and rotating them would eliminate this. I insisted that he go for a test drive with me at which time he felt and heard the clunking, and whatever was hitting the underside of the truck. Before we got back to the garage he told me he was pretty sure it was a bad U-joint and to leave the truck for the day. When I went to pick it up, he said it was simply a piece of plastic left on spring that had been overlooked when the truck came in from the factory and the problem was taken care of when they took it off. I asked why it suddenly would start after driving it for 7 months if it had been there all along and he told me it had just come loose enough to be noticed. I did not receive an invoice stating that this was the problem, or any invoice for that matter. For some reason, this was not documented on paper. Thinking that this would be the end of it when I left, I did not give it a second thought to request one. I drove the truck home, only to find that the problem was still there. A few days later I brought it back to have the tires rotated as they did not do them the first time and to have the problem checked out again. They determined that the front shocks were loose and tightened the bolts, assuring me that this was the cause of the problem. I drove it back home and it had not changed at all. I brought it in again and they decide this time that my hubs were locking and not engaging and replaced those, assuring me this was the problem after all. The day I brought it in to have these parts replaced, the mechanic I had had all along had been fired. Someone new put the parts on. They once again assured me all was fixed now. I drove it home, and it was still the same way. I brought it back in and ask for someone else to drive it with me so there was no question as to what was wrong. The mechanic they sent out was the one that had replaced the hubs. He told me he wasn't even their mechanic, but they had 'borrowed him' from their Jeep dealership in another part of the state until they could find a replacement for the one they had fired. He said when he put the hubs on, he didn't know the history of the vehicle so did not test drive it after the new parts were installed. He also felt and heard all the things that were happening during our test drive. His feeling was that it was a tie rod and ordered the parts he needed. The day I brought it in to have these put on, I asked that he do the work, but he was no longer with them there. Later that day when I got in my truck to drive it home and to check if the problem was still there, the whole steering wheel was turned almost upside down. I went back inside to ask what happened to it and I was told simply that they didn't have any time to do an alignment and I'd need to bring it back at a later date. At first, I thought that maybe we were getting someplace with the original problem because although it was still there, it seemed to lessen. But the farther I drove it, it was back to square one. I brought it back in again and they told me it is a problem in the suspension, but we are now waiting for the correct parts as they were sent the wrong ones.
I contacted the NY Attorney General and just received the lemon law application. I have 17,000 miles on my truck. I know that 4 unsuccessful repair attempts must be made before 18,000 miles to qualify for the lemon law. If you count the plastic part they forgot to take off, I am there, though I do not have documentation of this. If not, I will be once they fix the suspension, provided that was not the problem and I haven't gone over the allowed mileage. I told Vittengl's that I was not driving the truck 1 more mile until the latest repair is made so that I do not go over this amount. Each time I drive my truck there it is 25 miles one way. I had asked for a loaner car a few times, but they didn't have one available except for this last time so someone has to drive me there, adding 50 miles to their vehicle down and back, then another 50 to pick it up, plus another 25 on mine. I have added several hundred miles just to my truck alone while they keep assuring me that every attempt is the last.
Where I am at now with Mr. Vittengl is that in his findings, and in his words "it would do no good for me to file under the lemon law because this is not a safety issue, only a noise problem." Since when is a part from a vehicle that comes up and strikes the bottom of it a 'noise problem'? He even "guaranteed" my safety. I do not see how anyone can guarantee anything at this point considering the fact that three of their 'best mechanics' have test driven this vehicle with me and each one had a different diagnosis. And each one assuring me that their diagnosis was the correct one. The more they look, the more they find wrong. I can only wonder what is next? And how can anyone be sure of my safety or that of my horses? What a tragedy it would be should something let loose in the front end of this vehicle while I am hauling my horses. When I attend rodeo events, I am hauling 3 horses and a top of the line trailer for a combined approximate value of $47,000. One thing that is certain is that if I or my horses get injured due to the above mentioned problems, I will sue for a lot more than my truck is worth.
I am around this same type of vehicle at several of the horse events I have been to. I've asked some of my friends that own these trucks if I could drive them to see if what I'm experiencing is just something that happens every once in a while to trucks here and there or is just my truck. So far, all have been fine. But it sure makes these people hauling their performance horses in new Ford trucks to be aware that just because they have a brand new truck doesn't mean that something couldn't go wrong at any time. It has made people take notice of the way Vittengl's is not giving me quality service after the sale, and these are people that trade in their vehicles for the latest styles every couple of years. We take for granted that 'new' means 'perfect and safe'. I was one of those people. It bothers me to think of how many times I loaded up my animals, headed out for a rodeo hours away somewhere thinking I was perfectly safe, yet something was definitely wrong with my truck. I am thankful nothing happened as of yet, but what if it had or does? I travel long distances alone at night to attend these events. I have missed several of them due to the fact that I am afraid that something is wrong with the front end and this truck is going to break down. That's if I'm lucky enough to just have the truck inoperable at the time. There are far worse possibilities.
One other problem I am having is with the brakes. Almost since the very beginning, they have not felt like a new vehicle should. I have to push hard on them and almost all the way to the floor, even before I had the trailer hitch installed so it is in no way related to that. In the past month, at different times when braking it pulls sharply and immediatly to the right and it smells very hot like rubber is burning. The last time it happened, I had my horse trailer loaded and the sudden pull caused me to go off the shoulder of the road. Luckily I had room to recover. I had the brakes on the trailer checked and they were fine. This is a brand new trailer and under normal circumstances I would not have even given it a thought that it could be the trailer brakes. But as I've come to know, brand new doesn't mean perfect. I've asked a few times to have the truck brakes checked, but they just say they are working to specification.
In closing, I would like to say that if my truck is not fixed to my satisfaction I feel I am not being unreasonable in asking for a replacement vehicle. I'm not asking for a brand new truck, a comparable one would resolve this. One that I feel confident and safe to drive. At the very least, I would like for Mr. Vittengl to put in writing that he personally guarantees the safety of myself and my horses from any injury resulting from this problem as he stated in our conversation on January 26.
Where do I go from here to resolve this issue before proceeding with filing for the lemon law?
<<<<<<<<<<<<&l t;<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<&l t;<<<<<<<
Since this letter, I had a new suspension put in my truck. That lasted 2 weeks, and we are back to square one. I notified Ford that I filed with the Lemon Law, and they in return said they were initiating the Dispute Settlement Board themselves and mailing me an application. I'm not sure exactly what this is, but if it voids any rights I have to the lemon law, I am not going thru with it. Has anyone reading this gone thru the lemon law successfully? I know I qualify, as the NY law states it has to be 4 unsuccessful repair attemps. I have had 5 now. Thanks for taking the time to read this, I know it's long!
#2
02-16-2001, 01:21 AM
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Oh man,I wish you all the luck in the world. I hope this comes out in your favor
It almost sounds like an A-arm bushing or body mount bushing was left off,or worse,fell off....That is a scary,, safety ignorant dealer.....Why is it that dealers just check one thing and are so sure that it's the solution,rather than look over and check every possible thing at one time.....Good luck to you,alaina,,,,98
Have they tried putting it on a frame rack,to see if the frame is warped?
------------------
98 F-150 4.6 Litre XLT2wd Ext. cab
Yokahama AVS/ST's
prarie tan/tan int.
K/N gen.II fipk
custom dual exh/gibson rectangle tips/rear exiting.
color matched snuglid
Superchip!!!
Westin nerfs blk .powdercoat
Clear front corners
Stillen Quad light air dam, sweet!!
Euro taillights
Cobra 75WXST cb w/weather alert
[b]Kenwood cd w/Radio Shack speakers,don't laugh it sounds pretty good
Viper alarm
On the way/wheels,tires, etc..etc.......
the monochromatic boogie is done,cool!.
Come see my new pictures@ www.my-f150.com
officialtomwaits.com
reverendhortonheat.com
WOW,what a cool site!
FENDER GUITARS ROCK!!!
Had to take the picture out,it was way too out of date
,,,,98
[This message has been edited by 98SCREAMER (edited 02-16-2001).]
It almost sounds like an A-arm bushing or body mount bushing was left off,or worse,fell off....That is a scary,, safety ignorant dealer.....Why is it that dealers just check one thing and are so sure that it's the solution,rather than look over and check every possible thing at one time.....Good luck to you,alaina,,,,98
Have they tried putting it on a frame rack,to see if the frame is warped?
------------------
98 F-150 4.6 Litre XLT2wd Ext. cab
Yokahama AVS/ST's
prarie tan/tan int.
K/N gen.II fipk
custom dual exh/gibson rectangle tips/rear exiting.
color matched snuglid
Superchip!!!
Westin nerfs blk .powdercoat
Clear front corners
Stillen Quad light air dam, sweet!!
Euro taillights
Cobra 75WXST cb w/weather alert
[b]Kenwood cd w/Radio Shack speakers,don't laugh it sounds pretty good
Viper alarm
On the way/wheels,tires, etc..etc.......
the monochromatic boogie is done,cool!.
Come see my new pictures@ www.my-f150.com
officialtomwaits.com
reverendhortonheat.com
WOW,what a cool site!
FENDER GUITARS ROCK!!!
Had to take the picture out,it was way too out of date
,,,,98[This message has been edited by 98SCREAMER (edited 02-16-2001).]
#3
02-16-2001, 08:55 AM
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alaina: try posting on the superduty board too. www.ford-diesel.com
The more people that hear your story the more chances of finding someone that has been through this too.
It's too bad you're having all these problems w/your truck. I've heard of the brake problem over on the board I mentioned. I've also heard of clunking noises but I'm not sure if they're the same as what you're experiencing. Try the other board. And I really hope this gets resolved.
------------------
2k F250 CC SWB 6 speed 4x2 Diesel XLT Super Duty, Woodland Green
Power Mirrors, 3.73 LS, Captains Chairs, ARE tonneau top, rear privacy glass
TT Pkg, Class IV hitch, sliding rear window, running boards, mud flaps
265/75/16 AS OWL tires, am/fm/cassette/cd, rechargable MagLite
Clarion APA 5240 amp, Memphis speakers:Components front, 5x7 rear, 10"sub
SuperChip, Stepshields, Ventshields on windows, rubber bed mat
rugged liner bedliner on tailgate, quick disconnect jumper cables
unaFORDable (decal on tailgate) Western Diesel Turbo Brake (whoa boy)
Finally gauges!!: Pyrometer & Boost on the A-Pillar mount
The more people that hear your story the more chances of finding someone that has been through this too.
It's too bad you're having all these problems w/your truck. I've heard of the brake problem over on the board I mentioned. I've also heard of clunking noises but I'm not sure if they're the same as what you're experiencing. Try the other board. And I really hope this gets resolved.
------------------
2k F250 CC SWB 6 speed 4x2 Diesel XLT Super Duty, Woodland Green
Power Mirrors, 3.73 LS, Captains Chairs, ARE tonneau top, rear privacy glass
TT Pkg, Class IV hitch, sliding rear window, running boards, mud flaps
265/75/16 AS OWL tires, am/fm/cassette/cd, rechargable MagLite
Clarion APA 5240 amp, Memphis speakers:Components front, 5x7 rear, 10"sub
SuperChip, Stepshields, Ventshields on windows, rubber bed mat
rugged liner bedliner on tailgate, quick disconnect jumper cables
unaFORDable (decal on tailgate) Western Diesel Turbo Brake (whoa boy)
Finally gauges!!: Pyrometer & Boost on the A-Pillar mount
#4
02-16-2001, 07:13 PM
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Alaina
Lift the carpets out of the cab corners, Take an 18mm x 1/2" drive socket. Locate the bolt heads associated with the cab to frame rubber mounts/isolators. Loosen the bolt a couple of turns Rertorque / retighten the bolt to about 100-120 ft lbs with a power bar.
I too had knocks and bangs coming from under the floor boards, springs were also replaced but the final culprit was the body mounts were loose.
I hope this works, It did for me after both the dealership and mysely tore out most of our hair
P.S. Spray a little Lube 1 or WD 40 on the exposed threads under the top flange of the frame rail at the cab mount.
------------------
97 F150 4x4 Ext Cab Long Box 4.6L Auto, stock, in showroom condition Oxford White/Gold BedRug
Lift the carpets out of the cab corners, Take an 18mm x 1/2" drive socket. Locate the bolt heads associated with the cab to frame rubber mounts/isolators. Loosen the bolt a couple of turns Rertorque / retighten the bolt to about 100-120 ft lbs with a power bar.
I too had knocks and bangs coming from under the floor boards, springs were also replaced but the final culprit was the body mounts were loose.
I hope this works, It did for me after both the dealership and mysely tore out most of our hair
P.S. Spray a little Lube 1 or WD 40 on the exposed threads under the top flange of the frame rail at the cab mount.
------------------
97 F150 4x4 Ext Cab Long Box 4.6L Auto, stock, in showroom condition Oxford White/Gold BedRug
#5
02-16-2001, 07:19 PM
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sorry I hit the return before I was done!
Furthermore I really feel for you, I was ready to trash my truck, now its still the greatest vehicle built. If you are going to trade off this vehicle let me know, ill find the problem. My philosophy: 1)There is no problen that the source cannot be found 2)When you find the solution it will be obvious!
Regards
Dave
------------------
97 F150 4x4 Ext Cab Long Box 4.6L Auto, stock, in showroom condition Oxford White/Gold BedRug
Furthermore I really feel for you, I was ready to trash my truck, now its still the greatest vehicle built. If you are going to trade off this vehicle let me know, ill find the problem. My philosophy: 1)There is no problen that the source cannot be found 2)When you find the solution it will be obvious!
Regards
Dave
------------------
97 F150 4x4 Ext Cab Long Box 4.6L Auto, stock, in showroom condition Oxford White/Gold BedRug
