Do you guys think that propane injection is worth it in the long run? at dieselmanor.com, a kit costs about $750 or so, (without a tank), so I am thinking, can I gain some power and a little mileage? If I get about 13MPG, and I get 20MPG after the conversion, it will pay for itself within 10-15 tanks of fuel, right? Any thoughts appreciated.

 

i.m.h.o. ...naaa not worth it

its (to me anyway) just another "toy" to play with...
750$ for the kit...then the install...then the propane ....

i'm sure there are chips and such for way less $$$ that will get you the same result...

i'll keep my truck stock thank you
...zap!

 

LMAO, you won't see anywhere near 20mpg if you're only getting 13 now. Propane isn't a mileage gain, its typically a power gain. Keep in mind that propane is a very explosive fuel and will advance the timing significantly. This in turn can spell disaster for a diesel engine. This is mainly due to the much higher compression ratio of a diesel. Also its due to the high BTU content of diesel fuel. This means that when the fuel ignites there is a very large release of energy. When you add propane you can increase this energy some, but the biggest problem is the advance in timing. When the propane advances the timing the reaction in the cylinder occurs before the inteded event window, ie the piston is still on its compression stroke. This wreaks havoc on the connecting rod, crank, and lower block. Its very common to hear of trucks that send rods through the block running propane, nos, or water/meth. They can be used safely, but you can't be a moron. You gotta know what you're doing. You will need to have a custom chip written specifically your truck. Not some cheesy off the shelf TS chip programming or a tuner like a Superchips or Evolution. You need something that will make sure the timing is retarded enough that the ignition event takes place when its supposed to. It also needs to be able to control when the propane is injected, as you don't want it running all the time. If you must run propane talk to Jody Tipton at DP Tuner and he will write a safe program for you. It is also important that the system you get does not allow any liquid propane into the engine. If this happens KABOOM!!! The best ones have a valve on the tank to prevent any liquid even in the lines. One other thing is that if you have a 2001 or newer you will have powdered metal rods (PMRs) and they are extremely succeptable to propane or any kind of drug. Really if you do this you'll see an increase in hp, but if you're seeing 13mpg now don't plan on anything higher than 15mpg, IF that. If you really want mods that will help the mpgs you'll want something to get the air out of the fuel. The prepump and intank mods are good. A system like the FASS (that I run) or the Airdog are better, but more expensive. Then you'll need to add the regulated return kit to eliminate the dead head fuel rails in the heads. Finally you'd have to replace the #8LL injector with a standard, IF your truck had the #8LL installed for a cackle fix by the dealership. All of this might net you 1-2mpg, but the biggest thing it will add is extended life to the fuel pump and injectors.

 

You gave some really good information, I appreciate that. So, from what it sounds like, intake and a chip might give me what I want, yes? My truck is a 99 with almost 200k on her, (192, I think), and I already had an expensive procedure done on it at the dealer when I threw an injector or 2 and needed 1 or 2 new cylinder sleeves, and a wastegate rebuild. The dealer told me that 2 of the cylinders were running at about 80% due just to age. (before you all say it, the only reason I went to the dealer is that I was out of town for work, and I needed it fixed quick, but it sure cost an arm).

That all said, will a chip work OK for me?

Just for comparison sake, what do you guys think a PSD engine rebuild would be, from a diesel shop for example?

Thanks,

TT

 

If you want a little more power get gauges, DIY intake, 4" exhaust, then a DP Tuner chip. Do them in that order. For gauges you need a pyro mounted preturbo, boost (30psi is fine if you keep the stock turbo), and trans temp if you have an auto. For exhaust I would suggest a stainless steel system considering you live in Minneapolis. I know how much salt they use up there as I used to live a couple hours away. The intake will depend on if you have an early 99 or late 99 truck, but either way its only around $40 if you get the cheaper Napa filter, or around $60 if you get the better filter that I run. For your chip call Jody at www.DP-Tuner.com. Total for the mods will cost you about $1300 depending on the chip configuration, which exhaust you chose, and which gauges you want to run. Mine was a little under $1000, but I built alot of it myself. All in all I've got about $4500 into my buildup with another $2500 to go, but it might go up to around $6000 more depending on if I go with injectors and head studs.


If you go with a stock rebuild plan on 3-4k. If you with an all out ***** to the wall buildup you're talking 25-30k pretty easy. Just the exhaust, intake, and chip will get you around the 225-250 rwhp.

 

I think I spent like $6k on my "repairs" at the dealer. I could have rebuilt my whole engine.

 

LOL, a new long block can be had for $5000 real easy just about everywhere. Thats not just a rebuild, but a whole new engine minus the accessories you'd just swap over for yours. At a good shop $6k would have gotten you a chip, intake, exhaust, gauges, PLUS higher hp injectors and still had some money left over.

 

I worked for the City of Scarborough (Toronto, Ontario, Canada) for 21 years in the maintenance garage, and we had several garbage trucks converted to LPG and 1 converted to Natural Gas/diesel. The trucks had a GVWR of 45,000 lbs. The price of propane in those days was only 29 cents per litre or about 39 cents per gal cdn. I had to track the cost vs. mpg. What we found was that it was very cheap to run the trucks, but we had up to a 20% decrease in mpg. Gas/diesel were about 30 cents per litre higher than propane. The truck converted to Natural Gas was a hybrid, as it also ran on diesel. Aside from the cleaner burn and lower exhaust emissions, we saw very little advantage to the switch. The trucks ran on the road for 8 years, and at time of removal, over 200,000 miles. Our drivers used to complain about filling the trucks with LPG in the winter, as propane doesn't like the cold. Aside from that, they were good and general maintenance was low. That was 20 years ago, and maybe the technology has changed to make it more attractive. But something to consider. Before you switch, find out where all the fuel stations are in your area that sell propane. In Canada, they are still few and far between.

We also had 10 Ford Rangers converted to propane with the same results as above. No real advantage. The drivers hated the trucks 300 - 400 km to fill in city traffic or 150 - 250 miles on a fill.

Whatever you decide, good luck

 

Were these vehicles running on 100% LP? If so then yes I can definetly see the mileage hit. Propane as its used now for this application is a very low percentage and is used to help ignite the fuel faster/better. Though its still not going to generate any big mileage gains, but its probably not going to drop. I have heard similar complaints about LPG vehicles when I was in Australia last year as you would see a good amount of LPG cars.

 

Powerstroke 73:

Yes, the vehicles ran 100%. The city dropped the program after the initial vehicles were due for replacement. It is interesting to note that when we tried to sell the vehicles at auction, there was only one interested party, and he wanted to know whether we would convert them back to diesel for the garbage trucks and to gas for the Ford Rangers before he would buy them.
We eventually sold them as scrap.
Makes you wonder.

 

Sounds about right. 100% LP vehicles aren't very efficient as you know. Years ago you could get tractors that ran stricly on LP. There is a reason that they are no longer offered. The only real benefit is the lowered emissions. The stuff is also much harder to handle, and alot more dangerous to do so as well due to the pressure its stored under to keep it liquid and its temperature while under pressure.

 

Ditto on the stations in the area, most propane refilling stations are for RV, etc. Most ARE NOT set up for charging the road tax on propane / LP. IF they seel to you they're risking big fines if they know you're using it for on road.

Had a friend her that had to get a liquid tap put on his home tank to fill his truck because nobody would sell him more than 3 gallons, the most they can sell for "emergency" fills around here.

 

I know someone here here that has propane on their power stroke and they have 44 inch mud tires and they can smoke the tires at the red light when taking off. it does what nitro does to a gas engine.

 

You will be much better off going with nitrous than propane. I have a propane kit in the shop.....After 2 blown engines it came off and was never used again. Nitrous is where its at now....

 

Nitrous is safer, but you gotta have the fuel first. Without the fuel the nitrous is useless. Aside from that it can, and has done on a few situations, over sped the turbo. Dockboy blew the housing on his H2E apart on the dyno one day when he put the Juice to it. Just like any of it you gotta be careful, but it is safer than pane.