New to the diesel game....
#16
03-21-2012 | 02:28 PM
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From: Rosenberg/Baytown TX
I will not argue that they are more expensive to maintain because that is correct i do have some slight comments on your math.
whose jumping ship off the f250? buying a brand new diesel now days is not a good idea if your not going to be using it daily for work unless you have money to **** away is correct.
whose getting 13-15 mpg in their F250?? ME only because i drive basically only city miles and do lots of short trips. if i was commuting farther daily i would be in the 16-18 range and with a mild tune and DPF delete on the 6.4 the easily get 16+
fuel prices. in some areas $.40 might be correct. here diesel is only $.10 more a gallon and some stations sell regular 87 octane for what i pay for diesel at other stations.
i bought mine last june when prices were about the 0.40 more though and heres what i went through. i wanted a crewcab but had trouble finding a 1/2 ton crewcab with a 6.5ft bed as i use it frequently and cant stand the 5.5ft. then when i got past that slightly and found some f150's i realized they had similar miles to the diesel f250's i could get for the same price but have the extra room in the cab (over a 00-03 f150) but also had the fullsize be i wanted. then i thought about economy. i was gonna get about 15mpg no matter waht in the trucks i was looking at so it was no difference there but a bigger truck. do i tow or haul daily? no do i enjoy just driving my truck? Yes. i was ok with slightly higher maintenance costs but as a truck person it was just another thing for me to tackle myself
Bottom line of my point is that if you can afford to do the work and maintain your vehicle diesels are just slightly more expensive on the routine things.
true. but i wouldnt say LOTS (my count its 4-5) if you want a truck you can just ride hard and put up wet then go for a 7.3. put what ever you want in the tank and just drive. but if your on this site then chances are you know how to and enjoy maintaining a vehicle properly so any addition things like fuel filter intervals is no big deal.
now on the 6.0. if you do your homework on warning signs when buying you can find yourself a great deal as most dealers screw people over on trade for them since they have a bad rep. find one with good head gaskets( no coolant puking) and from there all you really are worried about are the vitals to any diesel (gauges) and the health of the oil cooler. some blame ford gold coolant etc etc. if you want a 6.0 get an edge insight with egt probe and a coolant filter first thing. (450 and 140). from there you can check your oil cooler based on the temps displayed by the edge. if your cooler is fine then just keep watch and change the coolant filters as required (15 bucks) and do an egr delete and tune as wanted to prevent cracked egr cooler causing blown HG's. if your cooler is clogged then dont let it go bad causing oil temps to get to high etc and crack causing blown HG's (if you know the vitals you can prevent this failure). if its bad replace it and delete the egr system and your good to go. (about 600-700 in parts to do it yourself in a day or 1500-1800 for someone else to do it).
but like GLC said which is correct. if you dont want to deal with any mods other than driving it and appearance things (not many people on this site fit this bill) then dont get a 6.0.
either way a diesel will make you want to spend money on more power
whose jumping ship off the f250? buying a brand new diesel now days is not a good idea if your not going to be using it daily for work unless you have money to **** away is correct.
whose getting 13-15 mpg in their F250?? ME only because i drive basically only city miles and do lots of short trips. if i was commuting farther daily i would be in the 16-18 range and with a mild tune and DPF delete on the 6.4 the easily get 16+
fuel prices. in some areas $.40 might be correct. here diesel is only $.10 more a gallon and some stations sell regular 87 octane for what i pay for diesel at other stations.
i bought mine last june when prices were about the 0.40 more though and heres what i went through. i wanted a crewcab but had trouble finding a 1/2 ton crewcab with a 6.5ft bed as i use it frequently and cant stand the 5.5ft. then when i got past that slightly and found some f150's i realized they had similar miles to the diesel f250's i could get for the same price but have the extra room in the cab (over a 00-03 f150) but also had the fullsize be i wanted. then i thought about economy. i was gonna get about 15mpg no matter waht in the trucks i was looking at so it was no difference there but a bigger truck. do i tow or haul daily? no do i enjoy just driving my truck? Yes. i was ok with slightly higher maintenance costs but as a truck person it was just another thing for me to tackle myself
Bottom line of my point is that if you can afford to do the work and maintain your vehicle diesels are just slightly more expensive on the routine things.
I dont think anybody is scaring him just giving him reality. Why do you see all the F250 guys jumping ship? Those trucks are expensive, I had one I know. If you have the money to **** and just want one because, then go for it. But when you get 13-15mpg tops per gallon and pay 50 cents more a gallon for diesel, that really adds up. Not to mention the fuel filters and oil changes which can be a 300-400 expense per year.
Just think everything over and do math. I did before I sold mine and here is what I found for 10,000 miles driving
2008 F250
Fuel, 13mpg, 21.3 tanks a year at 4.40 a gallon for diesel = 3373
Oil changes twice at 100 bucks each
Fuel filters twice at 120, 60 each time
Winter diesel addative, plugging it in expense- 300 bucks
2011 F150
Fuel 16.2 mpg 24 tanks a year $4 a gallon equals 2438 in fuel
oil change twice is 80 bucks
Reg is 20 bucks cheaper for the year
insurance is 10 cheaper a month for a year for $120 savings
I save $1600 a year by my calculations, might be pennies to some but in todays world every penny saved is a good thing. And that number should actually be larger, as I took the averages of both, but really the 250 did 13 dont matter what, and that F150 does about 19-20 on the HWY. So really I figure I save between 2-2500 a year. So the savings pays for my car payment in a sense, and is almost not like having a car payment anymore.
I might be sounding like I am a cheer leaders for the F150 maybe so, but I have seen both worlds. And you know what folks there is a real need for 3/4 trucks out there these days and if you have the load dont skimp on a truck. But if you tow jet skis around with a F250, your probably wasting your money. Also take a look below on towing capacities of certain trucks.
2012 F150- 11,300 with max tow options othewise 10,000 is about standard
2012 F250 Diesel- 14000
2012 F250 Gas- 12500
2001 F250 Gas- 10000 with max options standard one didnt come this way
Just think everything over and do math. I did before I sold mine and here is what I found for 10,000 miles driving
2008 F250
Fuel, 13mpg, 21.3 tanks a year at 4.40 a gallon for diesel = 3373
Oil changes twice at 100 bucks each
Fuel filters twice at 120, 60 each time
Winter diesel addative, plugging it in expense- 300 bucks
2011 F150
Fuel 16.2 mpg 24 tanks a year $4 a gallon equals 2438 in fuel
oil change twice is 80 bucks
Reg is 20 bucks cheaper for the year
insurance is 10 cheaper a month for a year for $120 savings
I save $1600 a year by my calculations, might be pennies to some but in todays world every penny saved is a good thing. And that number should actually be larger, as I took the averages of both, but really the 250 did 13 dont matter what, and that F150 does about 19-20 on the HWY. So really I figure I save between 2-2500 a year. So the savings pays for my car payment in a sense, and is almost not like having a car payment anymore.
I might be sounding like I am a cheer leaders for the F150 maybe so, but I have seen both worlds. And you know what folks there is a real need for 3/4 trucks out there these days and if you have the load dont skimp on a truck. But if you tow jet skis around with a F250, your probably wasting your money. Also take a look below on towing capacities of certain trucks.
2012 F150- 11,300 with max tow options othewise 10,000 is about standard
2012 F250 Diesel- 14000
2012 F250 Gas- 12500
2001 F250 Gas- 10000 with max options standard one didnt come this way
now on the 6.0. if you do your homework on warning signs when buying you can find yourself a great deal as most dealers screw people over on trade for them since they have a bad rep. find one with good head gaskets( no coolant puking) and from there all you really are worried about are the vitals to any diesel (gauges) and the health of the oil cooler. some blame ford gold coolant etc etc. if you want a 6.0 get an edge insight with egt probe and a coolant filter first thing. (450 and 140). from there you can check your oil cooler based on the temps displayed by the edge. if your cooler is fine then just keep watch and change the coolant filters as required (15 bucks) and do an egr delete and tune as wanted to prevent cracked egr cooler causing blown HG's. if your cooler is clogged then dont let it go bad causing oil temps to get to high etc and crack causing blown HG's (if you know the vitals you can prevent this failure). if its bad replace it and delete the egr system and your good to go. (about 600-700 in parts to do it yourself in a day or 1500-1800 for someone else to do it).
but like GLC said which is correct. if you dont want to deal with any mods other than driving it and appearance things (not many people on this site fit this bill) then dont get a 6.0.
either way a diesel will make you want to spend money on more power
#17
03-21-2012 | 02:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Rosenberg/Baytown TX
Didn't mean to scare you, but you did need to know. I just traded my '06 diesel for my '11 150. I had the coolers replaced and the cost without head gaskets was $3,800.00, luckily, Ford paid for half. But every tech I spoke with told me it will do it again, over and over. My truck looked like new and had 60,000 miles and was well cared for and was paid off. I was truly disgusted with the news...........
round here 3800 bucks will pull the cab get you studs, hg's machined heads an oil cooler and egr delete.
#18
03-21-2012 | 02:42 PM
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From: Rosenberg/Baytown TX
and just FYI i am in no way trying to start a war here. i just felt this thread needed the other side of the story. there are 6.0 horror stories but if you take the time there are alot of success stories with stock bolts and over 100K on the truck. just dont hear about them as often. have to ask yourself if the 6.0 was that terrible then why would there still be so many out running the roads all over the country from oil fields in AK where its -40 etc down to south texas??? poor owners and the failure of ford to provide a service manual when the introduced the new emissions systems in 03-04 were a major factor in the bad name this motor got.
#19
03-21-2012 | 03:12 PM
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True. If your going to get a 6.0 it needs to be a 06 or 07. By then a lot of the kinks were worked out. I had an 07 with no issues.
#20
03-21-2012 | 03:20 PM
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I will not argue that they are more expensive to maintain because that is correct i do have some slight comments on your math.
whose jumping ship off the f250? buying a brand new diesel now days is not a good idea if your not going to be using it daily for work unless you have money to **** away is correct.
whose getting 13-15 mpg in their F250?? ME only because i drive basically only city miles and do lots of short trips. if i was commuting farther daily i would be in the 16-18 range and with a mild tune and DPF delete on the 6.4 the easily get 16+
fuel prices. in some areas $.40 might be correct. here diesel is only $.10 more a gallon and some stations sell regular 87 octane for what i pay for diesel at other stations.
i bought mine last june when prices were about the 0.40 more though and heres what i went through. i wanted a crewcab but had trouble finding a 1/2 ton crewcab with a 6.5ft bed as i use it frequently and cant stand the 5.5ft. then when i got past that slightly and found some f150's i realized they had similar miles to the diesel f250's i could get for the same price but have the extra room in the cab (over a 00-03 f150) but also had the fullsize be i wanted. then i thought about economy. i was gonna get about 15mpg no matter waht in the trucks i was looking at so it was no difference there but a bigger truck. do i tow or haul daily? no do i enjoy just driving my truck? Yes. i was ok with slightly higher maintenance costs but as a truck person it was just another thing for me to tackle myself
Bottom line of my point is that if you can afford to do the work and maintain your vehicle diesels are just slightly more expensive on the routine things.
true. but i wouldnt say LOTS (my count its 4-5) if you want a truck you can just ride hard and put up wet then go for a 7.3. put what ever you want in the tank and just drive. but if your on this site then chances are you know how to and enjoy maintaining a vehicle properly so any addition things like fuel filter intervals is no big deal.
now on the 6.0. if you do your homework on warning signs when buying you can find yourself a great deal as most dealers screw people over on trade for them since they have a bad rep. find one with good head gaskets( no coolant puking) and from there all you really are worried about are the vitals to any diesel (gauges) and the health of the oil cooler. some blame ford gold coolant etc etc. if you want a 6.0 get an edge insight with egt probe and a coolant filter first thing. (450 and 140). from there you can check your oil cooler based on the temps displayed by the edge. if your cooler is fine then just keep watch and change the coolant filters as required (15 bucks) and do an egr delete and tune as wanted to prevent cracked egr cooler causing blown HG's. if your cooler is clogged then dont let it go bad causing oil temps to get to high etc and crack causing blown HG's (if you know the vitals you can prevent this failure). if its bad replace it and delete the egr system and your good to go. (about 600-700 in parts to do it yourself in a day or 1500-1800 for someone else to do it).
but like GLC said which is correct. if you dont want to deal with any mods other than driving it and appearance things (not many people on this site fit this bill) then dont get a 6.0.
either way a diesel will make you want to spend money on more power
whose jumping ship off the f250? buying a brand new diesel now days is not a good idea if your not going to be using it daily for work unless you have money to **** away is correct.
whose getting 13-15 mpg in their F250?? ME only because i drive basically only city miles and do lots of short trips. if i was commuting farther daily i would be in the 16-18 range and with a mild tune and DPF delete on the 6.4 the easily get 16+
fuel prices. in some areas $.40 might be correct. here diesel is only $.10 more a gallon and some stations sell regular 87 octane for what i pay for diesel at other stations.
i bought mine last june when prices were about the 0.40 more though and heres what i went through. i wanted a crewcab but had trouble finding a 1/2 ton crewcab with a 6.5ft bed as i use it frequently and cant stand the 5.5ft. then when i got past that slightly and found some f150's i realized they had similar miles to the diesel f250's i could get for the same price but have the extra room in the cab (over a 00-03 f150) but also had the fullsize be i wanted. then i thought about economy. i was gonna get about 15mpg no matter waht in the trucks i was looking at so it was no difference there but a bigger truck. do i tow or haul daily? no do i enjoy just driving my truck? Yes. i was ok with slightly higher maintenance costs but as a truck person it was just another thing for me to tackle myself
Bottom line of my point is that if you can afford to do the work and maintain your vehicle diesels are just slightly more expensive on the routine things.
true. but i wouldnt say LOTS (my count its 4-5) if you want a truck you can just ride hard and put up wet then go for a 7.3. put what ever you want in the tank and just drive. but if your on this site then chances are you know how to and enjoy maintaining a vehicle properly so any addition things like fuel filter intervals is no big deal.
now on the 6.0. if you do your homework on warning signs when buying you can find yourself a great deal as most dealers screw people over on trade for them since they have a bad rep. find one with good head gaskets( no coolant puking) and from there all you really are worried about are the vitals to any diesel (gauges) and the health of the oil cooler. some blame ford gold coolant etc etc. if you want a 6.0 get an edge insight with egt probe and a coolant filter first thing. (450 and 140). from there you can check your oil cooler based on the temps displayed by the edge. if your cooler is fine then just keep watch and change the coolant filters as required (15 bucks) and do an egr delete and tune as wanted to prevent cracked egr cooler causing blown HG's. if your cooler is clogged then dont let it go bad causing oil temps to get to high etc and crack causing blown HG's (if you know the vitals you can prevent this failure). if its bad replace it and delete the egr system and your good to go. (about 600-700 in parts to do it yourself in a day or 1500-1800 for someone else to do it).
but like GLC said which is correct. if you dont want to deal with any mods other than driving it and appearance things (not many people on this site fit this bill) then dont get a 6.0.
either way a diesel will make you want to spend money on more power
Take a look around a lot of diesel boys going F150's. Dealer I was at alone had 8 converts in 6 months, two of my buddies have, and I have probably seen another dozen online. Not thats an accurate sample as far statistics go. But now you have a half ton capable of towing 10k plus, instead of back in the day when a half ton was good for 5k lbs.
Like you said if you can afford it and thats what you really want go for it, and if you have a use for it go for it. 95% of the time the diesels that I see arent hooked to anything or hauling anything and when they are they are towing snowmobiles, utility trailers, and 19ft jet boats.
Riding in a f250 is like driving a brick, finding gas stations that carry diesel can be a chore at times. And to be honest with you a lot of people are just addicted to the diesel thing, its loud, it smells, bigger, its what their dad drove etc. Not flaming anybody but a lot of diesels owners have illogical reasons for owning one. Sure if you tow 10k every day of the week, then you would be right on for having one. Ive had them and they are cool and fun, but just arent worth it. IMVHO with the advent of boosting trucks now, I really predict you will not see diesel offered in anything less than a F450 in 10 years. By then they will have boosted gas engines that do the same power with 20+ miles on the highway
Last edited by nards444; 03-21-2012 at 03:24 PM.
#21
03-21-2012 | 03:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
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and just FYI i am in no way trying to start a war here. i just felt this thread needed the other side of the story. there are 6.0 horror stories but if you take the time there are alot of success stories with stock bolts and over 100K on the truck. just dont hear about them as often. have to ask yourself if the 6.0 was that terrible then why would there still be so many out running the roads all over the country from oil fields in AK where its -40 etc down to south texas??? poor owners and the failure of ford to provide a service manual when the introduced the new emissions systems in 03-04 were a major factor in the bad name this motor got.
#23
03-21-2012 | 03:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Rosenberg/Baytown TX
I should have stated that the variances will differ but I can tell you in the last year I have been from NY to MI, and NY to Maryland although gas prices flucuated from state to state, the common consensus was diesel was a cool 30-50 cente more per gallon in every state. 6.4l are fuel hogs, but not that the 6.0, 7.3 or anything else is a princess. And you said "WITH A TUNER AND DPF DELETE." at that point you are not comparing stock to stock. And a quality DPF delete and tunner is going to run you 1500-2 grand. Although proven by lots of people these methods do risk a void of warranty, failing inspections, and getting pulled over in certain states for smog.
Take a look around a lot of diesel boys going F150's. Dealer I was at alone had 8 converts in 6 months, two of my buddies have, and I have probably seen another dozen online. Not thats an accurate sample as far statistics go. But now you have a half ton capable of towing 10k plus, instead of back in the day when a half ton was good for 5k lbs.
Like you said if you can afford it and thats what you really want go for it, and if you have a use for it go for it. 95% of the time the diesels that I see arent hooked to anything or hauling anything and when they are they are towing snowmobiles, utility trailers, and 19ft jet boats.
Riding in a f250 is like driving a brick, finding gas stations that carry diesel can be a chore at times. And to be honest with you a lot of people are just addicted to the diesel thing, its loud, it smells, bigger, its what their dad drove etc. Not flaming anybody but a lot of diesels owners have illogical reasons for owning one. Sure if you tow 10k every day of the week, then you would be right on for having one. Ive had them and they are cool and fun, but just arent worth it. IMVHO with the advent of boosting trucks now, I really predict you will not see diesel offered in anything less than a F450 in 10 years. By then they will have boosted gas engines that do the same power with 20+ miles on the highway
Take a look around a lot of diesel boys going F150's. Dealer I was at alone had 8 converts in 6 months, two of my buddies have, and I have probably seen another dozen online. Not thats an accurate sample as far statistics go. But now you have a half ton capable of towing 10k plus, instead of back in the day when a half ton was good for 5k lbs.
Like you said if you can afford it and thats what you really want go for it, and if you have a use for it go for it. 95% of the time the diesels that I see arent hooked to anything or hauling anything and when they are they are towing snowmobiles, utility trailers, and 19ft jet boats.
Riding in a f250 is like driving a brick, finding gas stations that carry diesel can be a chore at times. And to be honest with you a lot of people are just addicted to the diesel thing, its loud, it smells, bigger, its what their dad drove etc. Not flaming anybody but a lot of diesels owners have illogical reasons for owning one. Sure if you tow 10k every day of the week, then you would be right on for having one. Ive had them and they are cool and fun, but just arent worth it. IMVHO with the advent of boosting trucks now, I really predict you will not see diesel offered in anything less than a F450 in 10 years. By then they will have boosted gas engines that do the same power with 20+ miles on the highway
it comes down to the person because your right in saying that its not needed to drive something this big being that i have no regular loads etc to haul or tow. for me it was a bang for the buck. got the size truck i wanted for the money i wanted to spend and the power is just an added advantage.
i will point out one thing though that your missing is the difference between people that are buying pre 09 trucks vs those buying new or slightly used is very key in all of this. the if you dont need it dont get it is bible here. new diesels being so expensive no matter what brand but your also talking about the ecoboost which can be a 35K+ truck even for an xlt 4x4. just saying that there are alot of other things to consider when buying older used vehicles that dont compare apples to apples like the cost of new pickups with warranties etc.
all we can do is properly educate the man on what it takes to own a diesel haha. but your sure a hell not lying these are fun. something about 4x4 launches and making passes in an 8k lb truck is crazy fun. alot of diesel guys are the type now that build it till it blows up and do it all over again and i love reading and watching the videos from Diesel power challenges. its crazy seeing the 6.4's with 1200hp and over 2000 ftlbs of torque
#25
03-21-2012 | 05:03 PM
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From: Rosenberg/Baytown TX
#26
03-21-2012 | 06:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
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From: Sierra Vista, Az.
#27
03-21-2012 | 06:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
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From: Sierra Vista, Az.
Yea, I know about the buy-backs, Ford took my '03 and GAVE me an '06 even trade. (I have purchased a lot of Ford products over the years) They were very cool about it. Also, I didn't rant and rave and throw a pissy fit when the '03 cylinder heads blew off, they were impressed by my mature attitude.
#28
03-22-2012 | 12:54 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 348
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From: Pennsylvania
it comes down to the person because your right in saying that its not needed to drive something this big being that i have no regular loads etc to haul or tow. for me it was a bang for the buck. got the size truck i wanted for the money i wanted to spend and the power is just an added advantage.
i will point out one thing though that your missing is the difference between people that are buying pre 09 trucks vs those buying new or slightly used is very key in all of this. the if you dont need it dont get it is bible here. new diesels being so expensive no matter what brand but your also talking about the ecoboost which can be a 35K+ truck even for an xlt 4x4. just saying that there are alot of other things to consider when buying older used vehicles that dont compare apples to apples like the cost of new pickups with warranties etc.
i will point out one thing though that your missing is the difference between people that are buying pre 09 trucks vs those buying new or slightly used is very key in all of this. the if you dont need it dont get it is bible here. new diesels being so expensive no matter what brand but your also talking about the ecoboost which can be a 35K+ truck even for an xlt 4x4. just saying that there are alot of other things to consider when buying older used vehicles that dont compare apples to apples like the cost of new pickups with warranties etc.
#29
03-22-2012 | 07:33 AM
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Fishsniper well thought out plan. Specially if your going get into the mechanic trade. But your thoughts on only slightly less mpg and fuel only 10 cents more is far from true on compared to a suburu. That subaru gets in the 20's for mpg that diesel whatever it is will average 15-17 best case scenario. And I have been in PA in the last month diesel is not only ten cents more there
#30
03-22-2012 | 07:38 AM
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Keep in mind your in school and the biggest thing you need is CHEAP and reliable. Does the WRX or diesel fit that bill? Only you can determine that. Most diesel parts are double the cost, and if you cant fix it yourself mechanics charge more to do the work. Also on a lot of models of diesels routine fixes can mean pulling the cab, tranny, or just ripping half of the engine apart.