DanB: my husband drives an F350 V8 gasser. It does very well and is sometimes used to tow a flat bed trailer with a skid steer. It would not do well towing a 12 horse trailer. For that, I'd suggest the V10 or the PSD

WWBF150: I've been trying to keep up with the debate between you and Mach1 and I've gotten stuck on the CPS. "Exactly" what are you talking about??

 

Tina, the CPS is the Cam Position Sensor as it is called by the PSD owners. Mach1 went to great lenghts to differentiate that it was a Crankshaft Position Sensor. Either way, it is failing with alarming regularity on the PSD. Without getting into specifics on my diesel background, I've got a few points to make. Yes, I've been UNDER a diesel truck in below zero weather trying to thaw out, or change, waxed up filters and gelled fuel. Yes, I've plugged the darn things in for more than one winter here. Furthermore, I've "set the rack" on Bosch pumps used on the 350, 370, 400 Cummins, etc., etc.. I've also got experience with C.A.V., Lucas, Bosch, Roosa Master, Stanadyne, JD, etc. I've used diesel fuel injection test equipment that cost more than an un-named persons hopped-up truck. So, I've got a bit of a diesel background myself. Perhaps, that's why I don't want one. That's the END of my discussion on this too.

 

Now things get interesting...Lets see its you who is saying its a camshaft position sensor...The question was what is a CPS...

I am saying it can be either crank or cam...I did not limit myself to the psd..you did...

Sorry to hear about your adventures in the cold...Why did you not take care of the diesels with regular maint. like removing the water from the fuel...

Are you still going to sidestep the question about what are you going to do when there is no more gassers in the trucks, what will you own???

And one last question---so because an unmaint. diesel has problems in the cold...this makes them all junk ???in the south as well???

I believe if you have water in the fuel system of a gasser the same freeze affect will occur!!!!!

So how come water in a diesel fuel makes it junk...and water in a gasser fuel doesn't make it junk????

Speak logically here,,,not emotionally.....

 

WWBF150: thanks for clearing that up. I kind of thought you were refering to the camshaft postion sensor but your post were so vague, it was hard to really tell. I think Mach1 was simply trying to name different parts that could fit the letters "CPS" because he too maybe had problems figuring out what you were talking about. Plus you said that the CPS was failing with great regularity which led me to questioning what you were talking about too. I've just come from a diesel rally in which one of our quest speakers was from Navstar/International. Of all the things we talked about, failing CamShaft postion sensors wasn't even mentioned. The most common problems with these engines and these problems actually are the same for ALL diesel engines was things like water in fuel, not changing the oil, using the wrong oil, getting bad fuel, not cleaning the air filter, basicly meaning doing regular maintaince and watching out where you buy your fuel. Cold weather did come up, but now-a-days, unless you live way up in very (VERY) cold areas, you don't have a gelling problem. He did recomend adding an additive to your fuel such as stanadyne (probabaly spelled wrong) Now if you leave your truck outside, don't plug it in, don't have the fuel additive in, and bought your fuel from the local Mom & Pops place that never sells diesel to anyone and the temp drops down into the single digits. Don't be surprised when it just doesn't crank in the morning!!!
The few people that I've talked to(internet) that have had the CPS fail, replaced it theirselves for about $80. I've not actually met anyone that's had the CPS fail and I've been to quite a few diesel rallys. I've got over 33k on my truck and it's not failed either.

 

Fact of the matter is that both of you guys make some valid points on the V-10 vs PSD debate. But in reality, this is one situation where things aren't just black and white.

First of all, Tina is spot on. If diesels were that much trouble, you couldn't give um away. But yes, they do require a little more looking after. No doubt about it.

I recently bought an Excursion with the V-10. I went with the intention of buying one with the PSD. Drove it around all day then took a ride in the V-10. Changed my mind on the spot! Big big difference! I fell in love with the V-10. It is one of the smoothest engines I have ever been around and moves that X with ease. Those of you who grew up reading muscle car mags remember a term called "drivablity". The V-10 has it in spades over the stock PSD for around town driving IMHO. Great throttle response, no waiting on turbo lag. No noise, no smell. It gets 12 mpg in town and we've seen 16 hwy. It pulls our 5,000 lb boat with ease. It handles better that the PSD model due to the lighter front end.

So you might ask why my Superduty has the PSD. The easy answer is that my wife drives the X and I drive the truck. But also because I plan on keeping this truck for quite awhile. That's the only way to offset the cost of the diesel option. Plus it is so easy to add big power and get better mileage while doing it. I LIKE the sound but understand that some don't. I LOVE the mileage. And if there is one true statement it is this, you haven't driven a diesel until you've pulled with it. I love the way it pulls my 9,000 5er. It gets better mileage pulling that the V-10 gets in town! I got 20. 4 mpg before I even had 3,000 miles on her plus everyone is telling me it will get better around 10,000 miles.

Does the diesel have better resale value? I would guess about $4,700 worth.

Is diesel the engine of the future? It's been big in Europe for quite awhile due to very high gas prices. The higher fuel costs get, the more sense diesels make.

Would I have been better off with a V-10 in my Superduty? Only time will tell. I have no doubt it would have done all I needed and I could have invested the extra money I paid for the diesel. But as of this 10 seconds, I'm glad I got what I got. It's one mean pullin' machine!

Does the diesel last longer? Who cares! I've seen some pretty high mileage gassers plus, both trucks come in the same package.

Bottom line, pull heavy & often plus keep the truck along time. DIESEL.

Want a smooth refined engine, trade often and do moderate pulling. V-10.

I figure we're just lucky to have such a great choice, chill out and enjoy your trucks.

 

Mach1, your "diesel knowledge" is really showing through. You are a "30 year diesel mechanic that sets the rack, bla, bla..", but I did not say that there was water in the fuel. You must learn to read. I said that the fuel gelled and that the filters waxed up. This is yet another reason to avoid a diesel, too many unqualified diesel technicians! No offense to REAL diesel techs meant.

Tina, I'm sure you read Ford-Diesel. If you do a search on the CPS there, you'll find that there's more than a few people with this problem. They seem to mention the parts costing a bit more too.

 

WWBF150: yes, I read the Ford-Diesel board. Plus I've met most of the main people that post over there, at the diesel rallys. This year they had a national rally in Ky in which about 300 people showed up (including me) and for the life of me, I can't remember meeting anyone that had had the CPS fail. The rally I just came back from in FL had about 74 trucks and no one there was interested in CPS failure either. That board has quite a few members (I think over 16k) and for that many people, the percentage of ones that post about having the CPS fail is very small. I think I've read about more people having an engine with cackle problems than failed CPS and I've yet to hear one of those engines either.
If you do have the CPS fail and take it to Ford to have fixed, it will cost you an arm and a leg (if you're out of warrenty) Buy the parts (just don't buy them from Ford) and you can change it yourself for about $80. Depending on where you find the part, that could cost you more.

 

So..how many psd's have you heard of directly that have had the cps changed out on????

I know someone who knows someone else that had one changed out..$80 for the international part...

This makes it a big problem...

I hear constantly were they automatically change out the glow plug relays when these dont start...How many of these are actually defective???

 

Mach1, you just won't let it die will you? Well, there are more than a few people reporting the CAM position sensor failure on their PSDs. Some reportedly have changed the CAM PS two times and are ready for a third time. I don't know of anyone here that has had a CAM PS replaced, since the dealer here will not stock a PSD, nor is there a big demand for them. It's apparent that people that live here have to consider a few more things before the smell of diesel fuel gets them giddy enough to purchase a diesel-powered truck. So much for your knowledge of a diesel, or anything else for that matter. You can go and hide in the diesel forum here and pose questions to some of the other posters here too. Laughable to say the least! BTW, how's the water? LOL!

 

That sure is funny that an electrical device, makes a diesel a pos, however if the same electrical device is in a v10 its ok...

Funny how geographic location affects truck sales..down here its the opposite, they cant keep the diesels on the lot, but there are plenty of the v10's...

Ya, you are right I dont know everything--but if you are trying to tell me you do..I will have to call you on that one...

How's your mileage on your V10, are you getting 20mpg???

Are you willing to meet half way and see this noisy, smelly, loud diesel get after your V10???

Man are these your ideas on diesels being junk??because they have a sensor that goes bad???I would think that engine longevity would be more of a guideline then one sensor...

Diesels are here to stay, Ford thinks so...so does chevy....why dont you???

 

The CAM PS are failing with quite a bit more regularity on the PSD than on the gas engines. Your denying it doesn't change things one bit either. I ONLY get 15-16 MPG highway, but those are real world numbers, not fabrications or hallucinations. Since gasoline is $1.19.9 and diesel is $142.9, I guess that I can use a bit more gasoline, can't I? Furthermore, this just pushes the break even point for the PSD WELL OVER 100,000 miles. As far as engine longevity, both will run over 100,000 miles easily, so what's the point? You STILL want to race your not too-stock PSD against a STOCK V-10? Wow, you must really have the little man syndrome pretty bad, that's all I can say. Since I grew up a long time ago, I'll let you bring your big bad diesel up here to race. One thing though, do it in January when it's nice and cool here. You can find out for yourself just how well your big, bad PSD will start when it sits outside UNPLUGGED, in -20 weather for a couple days. One more thing, you may FINALLY be able to figure out what gelled fuel is too.

 

I guess you are not familiar with "winter blend"...

Sorry to hear about your weather...its 70 here...

Thats still funny about how these CPS electronic sensors will make one of the best diesel engines manufactured a pure POS..

Did you know that international has used this engine as a medium duty diesel for almost 20 years and then all of a sudden in a Ford application with a bad sensor, makes it the worse engine ever produced???? I dont get it....

Where is your logic here ????

Oh yeah diesel here is $1.11..maybe you shouldn't own a diesel there....

As far as side stepping the longevity question again...
yooaaa you can get 100k out of the V10???the 7.3 is projected to 400K...that is real close...


Oh yeah I came up with an alternative for the diesel up there...just leave it running 24 hrs a day and you wont have to worry about all those problems you have with them...I myself have a bad a$$ garage that my trucks are in and it is weather


You claim to be a diesel mechanic...have you ever heard of a fuel warmer...they come stock on the truck....

I am gald that you as a former diesel mechanic have so much positive information to contribute to these boards...

 

Mach1, aka, little man, you've really shown that you are a regular fountain of diesel knowledge. You know about winter blended fuel! You still don't know about fuel gelling AFTER using the infamous winter blend. Then again, you still don't know about gelled fuel and waxed up filters. Remember the water bit that you tried to pass off? LOL! I have left my truck parked at the hunting camp in the below zero weather and it did start with no problem. Since you would have to run the diesel day and night, not at this hunting camp though, this does show an advantage for the gas engine. One more thing, I didn't realize that a garage was such a big deal to you. I guess that is what you must think success is then, isn't it? Heck, I thought that everyone had one. It must not be the case in your neck of the woods though, since you had to bring it up. You also crudely attempt to pass yourself off as a diesel mechanic. If you are indicative of the diesel mechanics out there, it's no wonder that people buy other types of engines. In other words, the engines aren't bad, it's the "mechanics" like you that are the root of the problem. Go and learn some more about the diesel, little man.

 

Little man---6ft. 4in. 270lbs of muscle...

You keep attacking emotionally and not logically...is it you that doesn't have the mentality or insecurity????

Does the by-products in your fuel give you problems,,so its the fuel is the problem by your accord..

Does the sensor you speak of make the psd a POS???

And yes here a temp/humidity controlled garage is a big deal...say because you can make good money by working on vehicles year round...

If you do not cease of your personal attacks and talk logical, then I will be forced to cut these lines of communication...


REAL TRUCKS DONT NEED SPARK PLUGS!!!!

 

Mach1, I see that the little man comparison flew right past you, but, then again, I figured that it would. I'm quite sure that you are a former Mr. Universe, on top of being an ace diesel specialist.
Fuel is fuel, the by-products are from its combustion.The by-products of most, if not all, internal combustion engines can/do cause problems, be it a gasoline or diesel engine. This may be what you are attemting to refer to, although your subject isn't too clearly defined. Then again, most of your diatribe has been an exercise in confusion anyway. I really laugh at your infamous quote about "real trucks..." Is this part of your logical argument? Heck, that's first grade stuff. LOL!
I really don't see this as communication either. You make your rudimentary attempts at insinuations and they are dispelled. You can't comprehend, so you bring up some age old kids stuff. I'll state it one more time, so that maybe you can finally get it: the engines aren't bad, it's the "mechanics" like you that are the root of the problem.