http://www.publicintegrity.org/dtawe...0703_Doc_1.pdf

I don't know how close it is to the final.

 

Bush and Ashcroft are set on destroying the Bill of Rights and gaining complete authority over every single American. Read the Bill of Rights and then you'll realize that the Patriot Acts removed some of our most basic and essential rights as American citizens. They would like to have even more power; Aboslute power.

Ashcroft is attempting to completely do away with the Fourth Amendment.

Ashcroft has proposed that the FBI have the power to issue their own search warrants, without consulting a judge, without showing probably cause and without informing the person whose property they are carrying out the search on. In essence, any FBI agent would have the authority to write his/her own warrant on any American citizen, search their property without informing them and without being held to any standard; Absolute power.

Bush and Ashcroft are holding accused terroists and American citizens they've labeled "enemy combatants", without due process, without grand jury indictments, without a speedy and public trial, without the right to confront witnesses or learn the nature of the accusations.

Right now, there is Jose Padillia. He is an American citizen, arrested on U.S. soil, held without charges, without access to a lawyer and without any physical evidence since June 2002. He may very well be a terrorist, but Bush and Ashcroft are setting a precedence that could allow any American to be held indefinitely without regard to the Fifth and Sixth Amendments.

If they have evidence, they should charge him, try him and get it over with. The way they've handled this case could lead to you or I being picked up anywhere in the country and being held in complete isolation, without the rights guaranteed under the Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendments.

I don't know why Bush and Ashcroft want so much control over us. I do however know that we do not have to give up our freedoms to fight terrorism. Mohammad Atta was pulled over for speeding in New Hamphire months before 9/11. Because there was no national data base of foreigners in our country and his driver's license was still valid, the officer didn't know that his visa had expired so he was let go. That would have been simple enough to fix and it would not cost you and I our rights.

We don't need to dissolve the rights of Americans to fight terrorism and that is exactly what the Bush adminstration is set on doing. Unnecessarily removing our freedoms so they can gain more control.

 

That's not quite true. Most are NOT US citizens. However, I do agree that if they are citizens they should be charged or released. If not a citizen, they should be deported with no future chance of entry to the US. The gov't has no reason to hold someone at Gitmo or anywhere else unless they are connected to a terrorist group. I just think it's quite funny that some people would not be raising so much hell if it was a democrat in office doing these things, especially the democrat-controlled media.

 

When funding was cut and the YMCA shutdown, I tried to get into Gitmo but they wouldn't take me.
Damn Republicans!

 

AlRagno,

I am glad to know I am not the only person who has read the Constitution.

XLT,

As a side note, do you remember our earlier debate on spending? Thought you might appreciate this story:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html

"While Bush has emphasized repeatedly the need to rein in spending, overall federal expenditures have grown to an estimated $2.31 trillion for the budget year that started October 1. That is up from $1.86 trillion in President Clinton's final year, a rate of growth (23.7%) not seen for any three-year period since 1989 to 1991."
...
"Such spending grew by an annual average of 3.4 percent during Clinton's eight years."

Everyone likes to rag on the Democrats for spending but it seems like the Republicans have a lock on fiscal irresponsbility these days

-Don

 

Open your mind, geesh. Remember 9/11/01? Do you have any idea how much homeland security is costing us? Quit trying to blame a party. Do you understand how our gov't works? Bush is not king. Most expenditures have to be approved by congress, and the (R)'s can't get it approved by themselves. I'd rather spend it on homeland security than welfare or health benefits for people that refuse to hold down a job.

 

A democtratic president wouldn't be doing these things because democratic leaning Americans value individual freedoms.

Democratic contolled media? The media hasn't even mentioned the Patricat Act II. In fact, the media has not held the Bush administartion to the standard they should. Because we are at war, it's frowned upon to question the president. Bush has taken full advantage of this unaccountable atmosphere he's created.

 

Ever heard of CNN, FNC?

 

I challenge you to go back and take a look at some of the Executive Orders Bill Clinton signed into law with the stroke of his pen. Pretty scary. I'm guessing you won't bother though with your rose colored glasses and all.....

 

The Patriot Acts are not executive orders, Frank.

 

Is that "Fox News Channel" you're referring to? WOW!!! Talk about the media banging the drums for a particular political party. Fox is as close to state run television as you can get here.

 

That doesn't explain why the last time we saw a big increase was under Bush's father. And don't try to use the war in Iraq as an excuse. Clinton went into Bosnia and Somalia and managed to keep the budget intact.

Bush is trying to make himself king. He has been given ludicrous discretionary powers by a Republican Congress. Make of that what you will.

Yeah! God forbid people in this country have health care. Who cares if the fastest growing group of people without health insurance is the middle class!

As for welfare, I think it sucks. The problem is, what is the alternative? If you give people on welfare money, they spend it and it keeps the economy vibrant (let's call it trickle up economics!) which in turns helps everyone. Don't give them money, and you wind up with people on the streets which results in disease and other harmful problems.

A society without these sort of safety nets is vulnerable to the same things that led to the Great Depression. The solution is not to get rid of Welfare, but to limit the time and/or require people to work for it (where possible).

-Don

 

People:

So many things to address, but where to start. Ok first I agree with AJ about some of the liberties/freedoms being taking advantage of. I do not know all the facts but will say that never should anyone be allowed to search another’s property with out a judge’s permission first.

I do not have a problem with who ever searching first before letting the “suspect” know before hand so long as that searched has been approved by a judge. If I have nothing to hide then come on over and search, BUT if you damage ANYTHING the federal and/or state government had better make me whole again by paying for all damages.

I absolutely believe in the Constitution and have read it many, many times. That is the rule and only rule of law in the land.

Yes if someone is American then they have or should have all the rights everyone else has, and that means a lawyer and a speedy trial. If they are NOT American and are arrested here, oh well, so said they do NOT get the rights we do since they are NOT American…

Now, talking about power grabs and tearing up the Constitution, well some of you have a point and BOTH parties do it. Yes the democrats love tearing up the Constitution as well and making believe there are things writing in it that no one else can seem to find.

Let’s start with social programs, nothing in the Constitution about that yet I am FORCED to pay for it even though the Constitution states I do not have to (read it and you’ll find where it makes reference to that fact)

Not wanting to get into the abortion argument but there is nothing in the Constitution that states it is legal, if anything it states in a round about way that it is illegal, if you believe the bill of rights that is. In any case it neither states one way or the other if abortion is or is not legal therefore the Federal government and the United States Supreme court should keep their *** out of it since they do NOT have the power to do anything about it. Again read the Constitution and you will find reference to that as well, ok here is a free one, don’t quote me since I don’t have my Constitution in front of me. It makes reference to the fact that anything NOT addressed in the Constitution is delegated to the States to handle and decide) Why do you think there is, or use to be different ages for legal drinking, for when a girl can consent to sex, speed limits, property taxes etc????

So on one hand due partly to fear you have one side stepping over the lines as per the Constitution, then you have the other side (Thank God will not get elected to office this time around, sorry Deany boy) that would love to trash the Constitution and if they could have their way turn this country into some kind of wuss *** country like France and make us socialist, everybody gets everything free LOL and then make us weak by tearing down our military…

Oh and as far as President Bush and the spending going on now, I totally agree some of it is uncalled for, especially that stupid social program (free drugs for grandma) that is going to cost over 400 billion dollars that I have yet to hear one liberal whine about… (Well some of them are whining a bit, “it’s not enough, it’s not enough” funny I didn’t hear any of them ask “How much is it going to cost us?”)

As Frank “correctly” stated its not the President that decides how much we get to spend or how much to cut its everybody in Congress that decides, thank your local elected official for giving out the cash to grandma…

The most important thing to fund and the first thing that comes before every single program is the MILITARY, if there is no money left over for grandma then tough chit because without a strong military grandma and everyone else won’t have to worry about their socialist programs and free give-a-ways, that will all come to an end…

 

Where did you get that great propaganda from?

No, repeat NO the democrats are NOT for American individual freedoms. The democrats ARE for government controlling individual freedoms, like your land, your wealth, your family, your guns, your automobile and about everything else including if you can BBQ or not in your back yard, the democrats want to control as much of your life as possible, its called a socialist society and in a socialist society there is very LITTLE individual freedoms…

Please people do not be fooled by democratic propaganda out of a 50 year old playbook…

 

It really sucks for liberals when the TRUTH gets out and thats what you ACTUALLY get from the Fox News Network...