In response to some of the posts that are complaining about lost jobs, here is a very interesting point of view.

Raoul, thinking man that you are, between goat waterings, could you give your thoughts?

I think this article makes points that either deserve to be believed or refuted with evidence.

TS

 

That is an excellent article and should be a must read for every American so they can understand how the economy, tax cuts, tax hikes and price controls REALLY work, not to mention how exporting and importing of jobs REALLY work…

Sad fact is most liberals will come along and claim it as some kind of propaganda regardless the proof is there for all to see, if they are so inclined to go look for the truth…

 

When are you guys gonna stop posting all this right-wing propaganda? LOL



Trouble makers!

 

I was surprised to read that more jobs were created in the US than were outsourced due to 'free trade'. That doesn't jive with 2.6 million jobs lost figure that is thrown around.

Anyway, I know that there are some manufacturing jobs still to be had. Our good friend Lifeguardjoe landed one a few months ago.

I'm sure the Wall Street Journal is well intentioned and pleads a good case but, the WSJ doesn't get to vote.

I know people who are out of work. Their jobs were lost overseas. They don't understand that we are better off now no matter how many big words, fancy theories and bar graphs prove it.
I fear that will not listen to the sound reasoning of the Wall Street Journal article but, will instead vote on their own condition.

 

Raoul,

I have known being out of work myself, under Republicans and Democrats as president. My only layoff occurred under Clinton. It wasn't his fault.

IMHO, some of the good things done under his watch includes NAFTA, and international trade is, on balance, much better for the US than negative.

Yes, it is published by the WSJ, but this is something that has been consistent, Democratic or Republican, for the past 4 decades. A point I recently read was that JFK tried to export jobs because that saved lives (and of course had the side effect of stimulating our own economy.

"Demagoguery beats data in making public policy." is a facinating quote, and one I think should give us all pause. Being out of work is painful, but the answer is to get out there and get even more productive in any way you can find to. That is the honorable way, isn't it?

In my industry, most of the work is outside the US. Third World countries make it a condition of doing work there, that local content is maximized. So, everytime anyone wins a contract to do this work, we have to simultaneously export jobs. We take these contracts because not to is to cut off our nose to spite our face. It is just more obvious in my industry than in others, where the feedback is not in the same industry as the export.

Are your friends making buggies in the automobile age? They should get over it, I think. Cruel world this is.

We need to think this through. If free trade is wrong, how can we make it more right? It is fairly certain that trade barriers will backfire. Bush put up steel tariffs (a move that probably contributed far more to the loss of manufacturing jobs than NAFTA) to save the steel industry at the expense of several other industries. They are now repealed, since they were sort of illegal anyway, and manufacturing is picking up again. Of course there are several other coincidental factors, and any one of them may not be decisive.

Without trade barriers, how do we keep those jobs on shore? I think we cannot, and should not. Let them go offshore, and bring some new jobs, different jobs here.


TS

 

Raoul,

I noted the lack of evidence of the 2 million lost jobs as well. However, yesterday, ViperGrendal posted this.

and I tried to open that thread. I noticed yesterday that it was hard to find the same 2 million jobs that supposedly were lost.

Now, it is no doubt that the employment rate went up from (can't recall exactly, but the low was something like) 4.9% up to something above 6%, although it is now headed down and is now something like 5.8%. Nevertheless, the link indicated (I thought) that the number of jobs never really went down!

Viper's link is to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, so I guess it would be a good thing to understand those stats, before laying credence to anyone with respect to job losses.

Did I read those right?

TS

 

I think this refers to the time between when NAFTA was passed (1994) and certainly until six years later (2000), when NO ONE claims jobs were lost, because, hey, that would mean that the Democratic utopia was a lie.

It is just a fact of life that NAFTA benefitted the US economy no matter whether you were Democrat or Republican. That some of those jobs are being out sourced to India now is what happens in free trade. New jobs will spring up in their place. That is not to say they have yet, and not to say that such problems can be ignored.

I think it is relevant to point out that when Enron collapsed, thousands of jobs were lost. When TYCO and WorldCom scandals hit, they had implications on the job market. Were these the fault of free trade? Probably they were the fault of too free trade, but not necessarily international!

Things are getting better. There was more growth in our economy last year than in any year in memory. The jobs will come. We need to be ready to do them.

TS

 

We really are exporting a lot of jos overseas, especially in the call-center/technical support fields. Heck, Dell switched almost everything they had to India and to the Phillipines, that's 25,000 jobs right there. Certain ISPs and Computer manufacturers have moved their tech support overseas, it would be easy to account for 2 million jobs lost, most in the last year.
The problem with this is, at least in my area, nothing else moves in. You end up with tons of people out of work, and not really trained for anything else. This area, when it was first settled and developed, built it's entire economy on coal, because that's all that was here, coal mines. Well, Westmoreland Coal Company laid off about 15,000 people here in about one week, and then there is nothing else. Turned this place into a ghost town in the early 90s, but now we have two call centers that employ about 500 people each. One of them shuts down this much, the other is rumored to be gone by July. I don't know what people here are going to do, all that there is to apply for is pretty much minimum wage jobs. Maybe something else will move in, who knows. Looks like the business to be in nowadays is the gas business anyway.

 

UNEMPLOYMENT
made in China


Bumperstickers I will be having made up.
Japan, Taiwan.

 

It's interesting to hear the politicians debate this one. Here's my opinion. Yes, we are exporting jobs - mostly decent paying manufacturing jobs - overseas. This would be a loss of jobs. On the other hand, yes, we are creating jobs - mostly at Wal-Mart. I for one do not equate creating jobs (delivering pizzas to eachother) as an increase in the kind of jobs we need in this country. So, like anything a politician tells you, look closer at the real numbers.

 

There is nothing shameful in delivering pizzas.
If you work the right parts of town you can get decent tips.
Not to mention you can help yourself to a few pepperoni.
If an address doesn't tip well, next time help yourself to a few more pepperoni.

Always say, "Thank You".

If they don't tip at all, help yourself to all the pepperoni.
When they say "This is a cheese pizza, it's supposed to be pepperoni".

You say, "umphhpph...nhttafh".

That's all you can say with a mouth full of pepperoni.
Remember, you are entitled to as much pepperoni as you can stuff in your mouth because the entire situation is a result of your manufacturing job being sent overseas and we are all better off because of it.
Bon appetit.

(I am just bitter. I used to be a diesel fitter)

 

Does this article support this thread at all? Any thoughts?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...nufacturing_dc

runnert

 

 

What did you fit the diesel's with?

 

Me and my buddy got laid off from the factory.
We went down to the unemployment office for our claims.
The lady there asked my buddy if he was skilled or unskilled labor.
He said he didn't know for sure.
She asked him what he did and he told her he made ladies underwear.
She said, "Well, that sounds like unskilled labor to me".
Then she asked me if I was skilled or unskilled labor.
I said I didn't know for sure.
She asked what I did and I told her I was a diesel fitter.
She said "Oh, well that definitely sounds like skilled labor to me".

When my buddy heard this he got real upset.
He yelled, "Wait just a damn minute! Raoul is 'skilled' labor and I'm 'unskilled'? I worked on that line all day and he was right beside me. I was sewing the underwear and all he did was put them on his head and say "diesel fitter"!