LIBERALS are so confused with their fuzzy math…

Here, rather then a bunch of jumbled words “trying” to portray that Joe Poor “somehow” pays more taxes then Joe Rich lets do this very simple so MAYBE the liberal get a clue, shall we begin math class 101?

We will use the constant of $5,000 for odd ball taxes even though that is COMPLETE crap because Joe Rich will pay more in that as well since he has the cash to eat the good stuff and not the crap at McDonalds, but to make this simple for those who are mathematically challenged we will use the constant of $5,000

Joe Poor earns - $20,000

Odd ball taxes = $5,000
Federal taxes = $2,000 (10%) OR $10 per every $100 he makes



Joe Rich earns - $100,000

Odd ball taxes = $5,000
Federal taxes = $33,000 (33%) OR $33 per every $100 he makes


Ok, now the hard part, since both Joe Rich and Joe Poor pay the same odd ball taxes of $5,000 who actually pays MORE in taxes?




Times up, correct answer it Joe RICH pays more in taxes. He pays $31,000 more then Joe Poor does, actually Joe Rich pays more in Federal taxes alone then Joe Poor even makes gross, which leads to this question:

How the hell do liberals figure that Joe Poor pays more in taxes when he DON’T even come close to earning what Joe Rich PAY’S in taxes?


I told you the liberals would be back to take a shot with “fuzzy” math and I also told you they would NOT be able to prove their point…


Ok liberals, go away and try again, this time use a different calculator, if you even own one…

 

Oh brother, you're killing me.

So if we tax a guy making a million dollars only 1% that's $10,000.00 HEY, he's paying more in taxes too than Joe poor who's only paying 2,000.00 in taxes at 10%.

According to your logic, we should tax the rich %.0001 and the poor guy at %100.

It's as Plain as day!!!!!!!!!! They poor guy is NEVER going to pay the same amount in DOLLARS as the RICH Guy. Just stop and think about it for a while.

Thats why I talk in Percentages....... Seriously, I've explained this to you like 5 times now.

 

Actually, no, they don't. JoeRich buys more expensive food, clothing, cars, houses, and everything else in their liefstyle. Ever see a rich person drive a $2k used car, live in a $50k house in the slums? No, they make more money to buy more expensive things which would get taxed at the same rate. JoePoor pays $5000 in taxes, then JoeRich will pay 100x that if his income is 100x that of JoePoor.

Your math is correct, except the $5k is not fixed independant of income.

 

What is so hard to grasp with this:

Earn $20,000 you pay $10 per every $100 10%

Earn $100,000 you pay $33 per every $100 33%


The rich pay MORE MONEY and a HIGHER percentage anyway you look at it so please STOP with the fuzzy math.

There are the numbers, please tell me where it is wrong, please provide me a link that states $10 per $100 and 10% is more then $33 per $100 and 33%...




And as far as you’re other fuzzy math of how both Joe Poor and Joe Rich will pay approx. $5,000 in misc. taxes is complete BS.

Joe Poor will NEVER pay $5,000 in misc. taxes if he is earning $9,700 a year and Joe Rich will pay A LOT more then $5,000 if he is making $100,000 because more then likely he is doing more things, and buying MORE things…

 

No, according to my logic either Joe Rich should be paying 10% or Joe Poor should be paying 33%, its your choice, just make it fair and equal...

 

Ok, then give me a number of what you think JoePoor pays in misc. taxes and what you think Joe Rich pays. You have to have some pretty Extreme differences to make the percentages become close. That's why I said you could plug in your own numbers...

This is just the guy making 330,000.00, We're not even talking about the millionaires who get of Really easy.

I think we've finally got you on track XLT. You want the guy making 9k a year to pay %33, and Joe Rich millionaire to pay %33 instead of %35 as well. This is what we're talking about to generate the same revenue we do now. This is pretty much spot on the money anyway you look at it... And you can sleap at night know the guy who only makes 9k a year now has to pay 2 more thousand dollars in taxes to make everything "Fair"....

That's cool if you think that way. Personally, I'm ok with paying a little higher percentage than the poorer guy. Especially when it only saves the guy making more money only a couple % in income tax. AND considering all the other misc. taxes we pay, that I strongly believe, and my numbers demonstrate, effect Joe Poor a Lot more than Joe Rich and becomes a larger percentage of Joe Poors income than Joe Rich's as well.

Put up some numbers of your own and prove me otherwise. Go ahead and put them up with Joe poor and Joe rich being taxed at the SAME rate of say %33 and it gets even worse. I've done it at the beginning of this thread but YOU do it with numbers YOU think are more accurate, and we'll see where we're at. There's my CHALLENGE. Clear up my "fuzzy" numbers and try to make them clear for me. Remember, we're now talking in percentages which we've now learned makes the most since.

 

So, you are saying that Joe Rich needs to pay $195,810.00 in taxes because it's the same percentage of his income as Joe Poor??

This also assumes Joe Rich lives in a house that has the same value as Joe Poor. Drives the same POS car as Joe Poor and basically lives like Joe Poor and spends the same amount of money a month....

Come on...... Like I and someone else said. Joe Rich is going to SPEND MORE of his income on other things and thus pay more in sales taxes that Joe Poor would not even come close to spending. When you add all of that up, the total PERCENTAGE of both your examples would probably start to get pretty close to each other.

In you example, it's all based off of the fact that Joe Rich does not spend any more then Joe Poor does and that just does not happen.......

Sure, Joe Rich is going to have a bunch of stuff to play with that Joe Poor is not going to have, but I'll bet Joe Rich still pays out 61% of his income in taxes on all that other stuff....

 

See where your getting confused is because of “feelings” and nothing to do with the actual math.

So let’s take the “feelings” argument you have which is to say Joe Poor has a right, due to your “feelings” that he is entitled to all the nice things and toys that Joe Rich has BUT Joe Poor don’t have to work for it. That is your “feelings” argument.

So, if we are arguing based on your “feelings” argument then I am going to lose every time because I don’t share your “feelings”.


Now my argument is based on hard cold facts, percentages etc. They ALL add up to accurately show that Joe Rich pays a higher percentage of his income in taxes then does Joe Poor.

There is nothing you can do to change the numbers, 33% vs. 10% is higher, more, greater there is no ifs ands or butts about it.

Back to your “feelings” argument and how it is so unfair that Joe Poor can’t have what the other guy has, well let me ask you this:

If I was to go into work tomorrow and work on my day off for 8 hours and say I earned $500 for doing so then would you say I should not get to keep that money, or less then Joe Poor who is going to be at home pouting about how he can’t have what I may have?

I am serious, how much MORE should I have to pay then Joe Poor because of my decision to work on a Saturday when Joe Poor decides to sit at home?

Another question, why should I have to pay $5 for the same Big Mac that Joe Poor may only pay $2 for? Or let’s try this, based on your “feelings” argument if I and Joe Poor both walked into McDonalds and bought a Big Mac, with Joe Poor having $10 in his pocket and me having $20 in my pocket your argument would go something like this:

If the actual price of the Big Mac is $2 when Joe Poor buys it he will only have $8 left, therefore when I go up to the window and to be fair to Joe Poor I should have to pay $12 so that I too only have $8 left in my pocket, would that be correct?

Sure it would, based on your “feelings” argument. As far as I am concerned if Joe Poor has a problem that I will have more money left in my pocket after I buy my Big Mac he might want to think about going home and eating some left over’s because I really don’t give a chit what Joe Poor “feels” because he can work some overtime as well….

 

What do you get when you mix:

Feelings, Liberals, Taxes, and Defective calculators together?

FUZZY MATH…

 

Quit with the math!!! Im getting a headache.. I agree with 01. I skimmed over some of the posts, so forgive if this has been brought up.
NOBODY is talking about the "Tax payers" that actually dont pay taxes, they get paid from our taxes..
Forgive my math, but I will give it a shot.
Married couple two kids, combined income of $25,000.
Total federal tax paid $1,800
Tax refund $4,900... YES this is not a typo $3,900

Dont get me wrong, with that income, and situation, that family should not pay any federal tax, however.... they should not be getting more back. That money has to come from somwhere, yours and my pockets. With this system, its better for them to stay in the low income bracket, and to get jobs that pay "under the table". I have know a few people that do just that. The libs talk about "fair share", so explain whats fair on that?

 

I don't know if I should jump in here but what the heck!

BHibbs your math and % argument is greatly flawed. Even if Joe Rich didn't buy anything he would still pay more in taxes. Your example cannot be used due to it's un-deniable un-reliability in reality.

I mean come on, to get the %'s to work in your math would be easy to make JR pay way more of a % of his salary. In reality JP would most likely only pay say $1k in sales tax and JR would pay more like $10k in sales tax. Now where does that put JR's % compared to JP's %??

Oh and one more thing, what if JR lived in Denver where sales tax is 8% and JP lived in Philly where the sales tax on clothes and food is 0% and 6% on everything else? You see, the flaw in your logic? Stick with the tax numbers on income only for your comparison.

So this being said, the rich pay more in taxes and always will. And it is thier right to try to pay less. We all want to pay less taxes!!

Now I have read all of your posts on this and I have one question for you, what is your solution to fix this so called Disparagement? (If your argument was correct)

 

Haku:

Excellent point and one many liberals forget about President Bush’s tax cut which takes more tax burden off the poor and middle class.

I don’t remember the income number, but it was somewhere around $28,000 and below will NOT have to pay federal taxes now when they use to, and many others including myself got a “bit” of a tax break.

However, the middle class is paying LESS taxes because of President Bush and if Kerry is elected those same people are in for some HUGE TAX HIKES…

The thing that pisses off the liberals is the fact the President Bush was not going to give BIGGER bonus checks to the poor, or the ones you refer to getting the Earned Income Credit (what a freaking joke) credit and they call it a “TAX” refund.

It is NOT a refund it is a BONUS check from you and me and all the others who actually bust our *** to feed these idiots to lazy to get off the couch and go to work.

Be prepared for a liberal to come by and attack your “factual” post with some more “fuzzy” math…

 

Hey Mitch,

I'm not really saying that. I'm just trying to say that even if Joe poor is taxed at 20% and Joe Rich is Taxed at 35% they're BOTH pretty much paying the same % amount of their income in taxes when it's all said and done.

Actually, I think Joe poor probably ends up paying More taxes (again, compared to his income) as Joe Rich.

That's cool if you think he doesn't. Like I said, plug in the numbers you think are more accurate and see where it comes out. I'd really like to see them.

You're example only proves my point XLT. A Rich guy AND a poor guy pay the Same amount of tax on a cheese burger, or Gas, etc. You divide that by the total amount each makes and it's a LARGER percentage of the Poor guys income, than the Rich guys. Obviously you can't change that at McDonalds, I'm not even trying to say you should.

My POINT is don't bitch about Joe poor only getting taxed at %20, because when it's all said and done, he's AT LEAST paying the same percentage of taxes as Joe Rich, with the Food and Misc. Taxes effecting him more any way you Look at it.

My feelings are accurate. I know what it's like to be poor. Like I said in another thread, a Family making 20,000 a year with a couple kids is Struggling these days. I don't have Any desire to Raise their taxes another 15% Just so Joe Rich can lower his by 3%.

Especially considering how much extra money we spend in taxes on Food, Gas (90 cents a gallon on taxes), Sales, etc.. These add up and when you're only making 20,000 a year it becomes a large percentage of your income.

Hell, I'll do it for you. Say it's 5,000 in extra misc taxes. That's 25% of Joe poors income making 20,000 a year.

A Guy making 330,000.00 a year would have to some how acquire $82,500.00 in gas, sales, and food taxes to have the same impact on his earnings as that 5 grand impacts the guy making 20,000.00 You begin to see my point.... The rich guy may have more incidental taxes than the poor guy, because he's spending more, but $82,500.00??? Do you really think so? He'd have to spend MORE than he Makes, and a LOT of Gas to get that much.

 

Using my NASA calabrated "fuzzy" calculator I have deducted this.

Same family I was talking about, assuming no state tax or other withholdings... Bring home per year $28,000

Now.. married couple, making $33,000 combined (this is 8k more than other family), they have no children, no tax deductions, and assuming no state tax or other withholdings would bring home $28,000. That math dont add up now does it? Make more, bring home less. My wife got a rather large raise last year, and it kicked us up into the higher tax bracket, so now we bring home less???? With "W", things are looking better for married couples. From what I have read, the largest tax breaks are for incomes 40-100k, which most of us are in.

Get em 01!!!

Hak

 

BHibbs:

First let me say, so you know as well as the other I sure know how I am with anybody I debate with and that is I have the utmost respect for you opinion.

With that said and as hard as you try, Joe Rich will always pay more in taxes then Joe Poor, there is no way around it, that is reality.

If I were rich I would not be eating at McDonalds like Joe Poor, and most likely Joe Poor couldn’t afford to eat at McDonalds to begin with.

For instance I am not rich by any means but I now own a 2003 Lightning. Beautiful truck and indeed my dream truck for many years. However it sucks the fuel and gets approx. 13mph on the freeway and it HAS to have at least 93 octane fuel to run.

Now, Joe Poor most likely is driving around in a 97 Ford Aspire which most likely gets something like 28mpg and runs on 87 octane.

So, more math again, if I and Joe Poor both drive a total distance of 100 miles a week to work and back here is our cost:

Joe Poor, 28mpg with 87 octane fuel @ $1.67 a gallon = $5.96
Me, 13mpg with 93 octane fuel @ $1.87 a gallon = $14.38

I pay, on average more then 141% for driving back and forth to work then Joe Poor and then I still pay more in federal taxes then Joe Poor, so Joe Poor is still making out like a bandit…