http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americ....ap/index.html

"In response to a U.S. ban on arms sales to President Hugo Chavez's government, Gen. Alberto Muller, a senior adviser to Chavez, told The Associated Press he had recommended to the defense minister that Venezuela consider selling the 21 jets to another country.

Muller said he thought it was worthwhile to consider "the feasibility of a negotiation with Iran for the sale of those planes."

HAHAHA. I kinda like this guy. Is that wrong?

 

Without spare parts those F-16's will all be grounded very soon.
The threat comes from them selling said aircraft to an enemy (China, Russia) who coudl then duplicate (or exceed) the F-16; and be an enemy we'd have to meet in the future (which is probably not a big deal either considering the new ATF & JSF, not to mention combat tactics...)

Just like when the Shah of Iran got overthrown, and we lost the F-14's we'd sold them thanks to Iyoltollah Knomeni; this won't be a big deal either. The other threat (copying) is the bigger threat.

This is why I HATE the fact that we sell our stuff to other countries...
LET THEM BUILD THEIR OWN CRAP-UNCLE SAM! DAMN!!!

 

So what if China or Iran has our F-16s. The F-22 won't have a problem picking them out of the sky. As for the F-14s? Those have been grounded for decades.

 

Are you thinking of the F-4? Because the F-14 is scheduled for retirement in Sept. '06, however the last mission has been flown.

The last F-14 combat mission was completed on February 8, 2006, when a pair of Tomcats landed aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71) after one dropped a bomb in Iraq. The plane was part of VF-31 and the last pilot credited with a bomb drop in combat was Lt. Bill Frank. An F-14D from VF-213 was the last F-14 to land on an aircraft carrier after a combat mission, it was piloted by Capt. William G. Sizemore.

 

Hmm, I guess there's no truth to the rumor then, that the F-14 would live on, not as fleet defender, but in a deep interdiction role (Like the F-15E Strike Eagle) into a variant the Navy had dubbed the F-14 "Bombcat".

PS: F-4's (Phamton II's) flew in combat supporting Operation Desert Storm, as wild weasels. F-16's play that role sometimes, but sometimes they work with the F-4 Wild Weasel variants too. (That is unless they retired the F-4).

I sat in the chockpit of an F-4 Phantom in the War Museum in Seoul Korea. That plane seems like ti would be so simple to fly. Stick, rudder, altimiter,ASI, landing gear, and a few more ***** & switches. It looks like you can sit down, and get a 4 hour BOI on the plane, and be ready to fly. it probably wouldn't be with it's hydraulic systems (I hear back then you had to have strong legs and upper body to fly them) but, if they took that same frame, and introduced fly-by-wire avionics, and a modern target acquisition package, installation of a gun (can you believe it had no internal guns aboard?) along with some cleaner burning engines, the F-4 would be a match for almost anything in the sky; and far more durable as far as taking hits go.

 

Iran's F-14s still fly, their F4's IIRC are mostly grounded if not all by now. We definately don't need anyone copying our stuff, the best rumble for the ruble and all. We need to flatten Venezuela, the SOB's have driven the price of Wolf ammo through the roof. Fargin bastages. I'd kill them all personally for cheap gas and ammo.

 

Chavez is crying because he's a commie pig. Neither we nor our allies will sell replacement parts for their F-16's so he wants to **** President Bush off by selling them to Iran. Let them do what they want, their days are numbered anyway. All commie societies adimately hate democracies, then they all come together and we devastate them, take a look at history. Screw 'em all.

 

Just a few weeks ago, saw a show on the F-14s that Iran has. They have been sitting, waiting for spare parts because when the crap hit the fan way back, our techs disabled them before they left the country. Those F-14s are in mothballs. Ours are being rotated off the various fleets as we speak.

But, the F-22s would still spank anything (might sweat with the Su-27s) in the air.

 

Yeah, that Su-27 - 37 Flanker is one mean/acrobatic SOB.
Rumor has it that nothing in the air is as maneuverable as the F-22... That's rumor, but- what we know for a fact (If you are an aviation nut) is that nothing in the air that's been shown doing its thing, is as maneuverable as the Flanker series...

The best training and the best equipment wins the fight most times. Other times, luck, surprise and overwhelming numbers will win.

 

Overwhelming numbers whas the Russians game.

I'm sure for enough money Israel would sell Venezuela the F-16 parts. They seem to seel the rest of our tech to our enemies.

 

The F-22 is the most dominant fighter in the skies, period. Hell, they don't even have to use their dogfighting abilities since their radar is so sophisticated that they'll shoot down an enemy before they knew what hit them. Very efficient.

 

Yeah, we said that going into Vietnam and our pilots got their peckers stomped by the commies. It was the impetus for the Top Gun school. Train like you fight, then you run out of ammo it's hand to hand for the grunts, same thing for pilots.

 

These new stealth technology planes aren't like the flying bricks of the past. If we'd had them back then things would have been far different.

 

If you don't know your history, you are doomed to repeat it...

Going into Vietnam, the thought was that "gunfighting" was obsolete. That's why the F-4 didn't have a gun on it; overconfidence in missles, and all that. "The enemy will be engaged at such a distance, that (yadda, yadda, yadda).

The F-14's radar system and the Phoenix missle system could track and shoot down 6 planes at one time, up to 100 miles away (Beyond Visual Range) yet, on two occasions, the F-14's had to splash enemy aircraft from well within heat seeker range, and maybe even gun range.

If I were a fighter pilot, I'd want to make sure my skills stayed well honed, and not rely on this gadget or that one, just in case I was out of missles, and had to fight my way out. Besides, in most scenarios (Unless another Iraq comes up) visual ID is usually required before shots are fired. Remember when that Aegis class cruiser shot that Airbus jet down over the Persian Gulf, because radar told the crew it was an enemy F-14? (I think that's what happened to that 747 in 1996 too), and Aegis is the most sophisticated radar in service, period.

You can't always rely on technology; sometimes you have to get up close & personal. When you do, you've got to be able to mix it up... The F-22 may be the baddest MF in the sky, but the difference between the F-22 and the F-15 & 16 in terms of performance, climb rate, turn rate, angle of attack, etc.. Is not so far ahead that it makes the F-14, 15, 16, & 18 obsolete. It's better, sure enough, but more like a 2004 F-150 versus a 2003 F-150. Not like an F-15 versus a Mitsubishi Zero.

 

I agree totally. I can't express enough the fact that nothing currently in the air can outperform the F-22 in dogfighting. Nothing can outmanuver it. Nothing has the stealth capabilities it has. Nothing. All the experts worldwide have come to this conclusion collectively, although I'm no expert.