Dustoff I couldn't have said it better myself

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TRUCK
2000 F150 Sport XLT 4.2L V6 Bright Red Flareside S/C. CD Player.

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A friend's dad was a gun dealer. He kept a loaded .45 auto in a night stand, by the bed. I asked him once if he worried about his 5 or 6yr old daughter and the gun. He called her and asked her where the gun was. She showed him. Then he said "Pick it up." She said "No daddy."
Why? She had seen him shoot targets, didn't like the noise, or anything else about it. Too many parents try hiding guns in closets and saying "Guns are bad, don't ever touch one." Sometimes that just leaves them curious.
I think education is the answer, and all kids should know what a gun can do, and that you never point one at someone unless you intend to shoot.

[This message has been edited by MOVEOVER (edited 03-01-2000).]

 

Parents are partly at fault, society is partly at fault, and the most blame should go to Hollywood and the movie industries that glorify violence and gun play.

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99 F150 XLT Supercab Towing Package 5.4L Auto Two Tone Med Toreador Red/ Silver Power windows, locks, mirrors, driver's seat. Cruise, tilt wheel Alloys, Michelins, ARE topper Superchip / 2000 Chevy Silverado Ext cab 5.3, auto, Tow package, tilt, cruise, power windows,locks,side mirrors, alloy wheels.

 

Dustoff and MOVEOVER both have great points.

I also agree that education is the key. There were always guns in my house when I was growing up, but I was not allowed access to them until I was old enough and as soon as I was old enough, I was taught respect for them and allowed to use them with supervision. All my friends were the same way and we never had anyone shoot someone else at school.

Anyway, I also heard that the gun was stolen, so either the parents are thiefs or they aren't teaching their kids right.

I also agree that in may cases parents should be held acountable for children's actions when they are that young, but I would want more information in this case before making that determination due to the fact that the gun was stolen.


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Chris Thomas
1998 F-150XLT Flareside STX Sport Package, 4.6L Auto 3.55 Oxford White/Gray interior, Factory Anti-theft system
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Are you sure you're not talking about the shooting in Michigan?

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1997 F-150 4X4 ORP, pacific green, 4.6L, K&N filter, DeflectaShield bug shield.

 

Yep, I'm sure. Just happened today. The "shooter" is being held in protective custody.

 

Pittsburg was 'under the gun' by a nut today..check CNN out:
http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/03/01/wil....04/index.html

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2000 F-150 XLT, 4x2, 5.4L Supercab, Styleside, Black with silver two-tone, 3.55, class III towing package with heavy duty cooling package, 4 wheel disk ABS, overhead console, sliding rear window, keyless entry, dark graphite interior, in dash CD, Pendaliner bedliner, K&N air filter, rubberized undercoating, cabin filtration system, Bugflector II, 5W-30 Mobil 1, engine build 10/4/99



[This message has been edited by Dustoff (edited 03-01-2000).]

 

News Flash (North Carolina)...

A 6 year old just brought a gun to school and shot and killed a 6 year old girl today!

 

Dustoff,
You have me a bit confused. As a member of the NRA I was taken aback a bit about this quote from one of your posts.
"I am NOT a member of the NRA..so please don't think I am on the other side of the spectrum."
Most of the rest of your messages sound like things I have read in the NRA magazines.
For example:

"Clinton and the anti-gun faction will try to make the most of this."

"Parents should be held accountable for this type of stuff...not gun owners or the firearms industry."

"PARENTS...ARE YOUR GUNS/AMMO LOCKED UP RIGHT NOW?"

"We have a *RIGHT* to keep our weapons as good citizens..to hunt, self protection, or to just oil and clean everyday if we want to. Gun ownership is *NOT* just a PRIVILEGE....like driving these awesome
F-150 trucks!!!!!!! Cars are one thing, firearms are another. This 'concept' of disarmament is being rammed down our throats and eventually....only "criminals" by law will have guns."

You seem to be well educated about guns and how the liberals in the government and media think that law abiding should not be allowed to own them. I'm afraid that you have been taken in by the propaganda about what the NRA stands for.
The NRA is about Second Amendant rights and gun safety. We sponsor youth firearms safety, hunter education and other related programs. Belive it or not the NRA supports strong gun crime legislation making the criminal face harsher penalties for committing crime while in the armed with a gun. Pick up a copy of American Rifleman or American Hunter and take a look for yourself, I think you'll find that the lefty media and politicians have it wrong again! As a matter of fact if you want I'll send you a couple of my old copies.
You are right Clinton is already using this tragedy to help further his cause...sad...
Thanks for listening
Mike

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dom562@icqmail.com

 

Dustoff, I never implied No one except Law Enforcement should have firearms in their homes. I believe in the Bill of Rights, all of them, though times have changed, lifestyles have changed since the 1780's, they do not need to be changed, maybe regulated somewhat, such is the issue.
My point was, I never understood why someone would want a firearm in their home unless they had a purpose. The purpose for a firearm is to kill it's target, that's why they were invented and developed.
As for Law Enforcement officers having a weapon in their home, many states require them to carry a shield and weapon at all times, theoretically they are on duty from the moment they are give a badge until they hand it in, while they are in their state.
As for periodic testing, a motor vehicle can be as dangerous as a firearm. Models and styles of both change, they both need maintenance, failure to be able to safely use both in a safe working condition is a hazard to the General Public. Law Enforcement officers must prove they can use a firearm regularly, any other citizen who has a weapon should also prove they can use it properly no matter how often they use it or their skill or knowledge level. Failure to do so is dangerous to the General Public, people become lazy and forgetful over the years if they don't keep up on something, even riding a bicycle. In the case of my father, he learned how to drive and use a firearm in WWII, he's 76 and has had 2 open heart surgerys, and numerous other gerriatric problems, he still drives occaisionally but hasn't used a firearm since WWII, do you really feel safe for your family on a road with him behind the wheel or behind an aged firearm? I sure as He?? don't, I once got behind my Grandmother on the road, I quickly found another road.
If you personally are so versed in firearms, I don't see why you are afraid or offended at taking a test. If a chauffeur or any other professional driver moved to another state they would be required to be re-tested even though they hold a valid licesence from their home state.
You insist parents are not responsible, some aren't, there's no permit need to be a parent, but the Court system has taken a lot of 'old fashion' parental controls away from good parents, parents go to jail just because they don't let Johnny play at Bobby's house. "How much more do we really need beyond COMMON SENSE", do they teach that? I understand your point though, would we need any laws if everyone had and used COMMON SENSE, having it and using are 2 different things. Remember one thing about kids(refer to kids of today, not our day), they are ingenius, they will find a way if they are determined, no matter how well taught, and locks are just an obsticle. Putting the 2 together has been proven fatal numerous times.
I just don't feel the need for something in MY house that was invented to kill. Whether it is a deer, a clay pigeon, or the neighbors child. If someone invades your home with a weapon, they did so with the intent of using it before you can use yours.

Other than Law Enforcement or Military personnel, what is a professional?

(for the record, though I am not a hunter, I am not anti-hunting, hunting may no longer have the same need, but it has its purpose).

 

MikeS,

I guess I stated it wrong...I in no way am saying the NRA is bad..in *any way*! To be honest, I have almost joined several times in the past couple of years..and many of my good friends at work are members. I believe in the NRA..and honestly..should join...especially to get my friends off of my back!! hahaha

Clinton and the rest will use the recent 1st grade shooting and Pittsburg shootings to further his agenda...but will leave out the 4 cops mistaken shooting and the *NEW* cop shooting in the BRONX!
http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/03/02/bro....ap/index.html

The NRA *IS* a good organization...what I meant to say is that I don't have bunkers in my back yard and my weapons loaded 24/7.

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2000 F-150 XLT, 4x2, 5.4L Supercab, Styleside, Black with silver two-tone, 3.55, class III towing package with heavy duty cooling package, 4 wheel disk ABS, overhead console, sliding rear window, keyless entry, dark graphite interior, in dash CD, Pendaliner bedliner, K&N air filter, rubberized undercoating, cabin filtration system, Bugflector II, 5W-30 Mobil 1, engine build 10/4/99

 

mtknee,

You again brought up some very good points and I do see what you are saying.

You said..**If you personally are so versed in firearms, I don't see why you are afraid or offended at taking a test**

>>The reason is that I am not in anyway concerned about passing OR even TEACHING a training class or test...it is the hassle, fees, and just another 'law' I would have to follow..for NO reason. Like I said..this would be perfect for those individuals who know nothing about firearms or rarely shoot one...but my MAIN point is it should NOT BE REQUIRED..but offered to the public..even for a small fee (everything costs money)..but NOT MANDATED.

I know that many police departments mandate their officers to carry 24/7..and that it is a 100% full time 'job'. I focused more on our rights.

You are certainly correct about kids today! My wife teaches first grade and I can certainly say the methods of teaching are quite different than in 'our' day. They are so restricted about what and how they say things. Teachers across the river in Columbus Georgia are not supposed to use the word 'no' when correcting a child. It hurts their self-esteem. Give me a break!!!

Your choice to NOT have a weapon in your house is nice isn't it! *It's freedom!* I should also be given the same privilege of freedom TO HAVE ONE if I want one..even if it sits and turns to rust. I am a very peaceful person..so why not? I might have to save the life of one of my neighbors or their kid from an intruder one day. You just never know...and it is nice that one is around (secured of course) if it is ever needed. I would certainly help you out (since you don't have a weapon) if someone was going to harm you or your family! *MOST* of the time..someone will simply give up and surrender if a gun is pointed at them..it isn't an automatic right per se to shoot first, although..some do! It is a persons choice to have/or not have..either belief is perfectly fine!

And the military and police force are not the only professionals, in my opinion...look at all of the competitions around the country every weekend, gunsmiths, and even the guy who takes his son out in the back yard on nights/weekends to plink a few targets. To me, a professional *is someone who shoots frequently, knows the law, follows the law and is able to handle weapons in a safe manner.* Even many soldiers in the military are week in these areas!! Do you think I felt safe around hospital staff who had M-16s..knowing they rarely ever see the weapon? (Somalia)...Like you said in your example about your dad..it is an accident waiting to happen.

Good points you have brought up! If the big dogs up in Washington would start talking instead of banning...things <might> be better.

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2000 F-150 XLT, 4x2, 5.4L Supercab, Styleside, Black with silver two-tone, 3.55, class III towing package with heavy duty cooling package, 4 wheel disk ABS, overhead console, sliding rear window, keyless entry, dark graphite interior, in dash CD, Pendaliner bedliner, K&N air filter, rubberized undercoating, cabin filtration system, Bugflector II, 5W-30 Mobil 1, engine build 10/4/99



[This message has been edited by Dustoff (edited 03-02-2000).]

 

I agree that this is a very sad situation. I'd just like to point out to Ron Kaltenbach that I grew up in a very liberal, Democratic household (in California by the way). My father was also a gun owner and took the time to instruct me on the proper use and respect for a firearm, starting at age 5. He also made sure that the guns were locked up AND disassembled at all times. While I knew that we owned guns and went hunting, it NEVER even crossed my mind to go find them in the house. I do not claim to be affiliated with any political party, nor do I hold an opinion about the NRA in one way or another. I no longer hunt or own guns. But you need to keep in mind that this situation can happen in ANY family...Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, makes no difference. Would you feel any better about this if the child's parents were Democrats? I doubt it.

IMHO, it's the individual and that person's carelessness and irresponsibility that should be held in contempt for this...not a political party.

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1999 F-150 4x4 SuperCab, Deep Wedgewood Blue, ORP, 4-Wheel ABS, Loaded, Flowmaster 50 series, K&N, Tint, Super-White headlights, Westin Nerf Bars, Toff Spray-On Bedliner, Pioneer DEH-P3000 and TS-A6815 speakers, ADS PQ/8 amp.

 

Anybody have knives at home? Are they locked away somewhere? If this child had taken a carving knife to school and killed himself or another, would we blame the parent for owning a knife, or for not properly EDUCATING the child??

 

That's right MOVEOVER...Parents need to educate their kids!

Kids are not stupid..they just need to be taught properly and the parents need to spend more quality time with them. But to be honest..even if this is done..a 'perfect' child could still make a mistake.

I just had the pleasue to spend the afternoon with my wifes 1st grade class (The read across America program). I pulled out my flight suits, boots, helmet, flight vest..and read a book about being a pilot (reason for the flight gear). I bought each one a small matchbox helicopter (.74 cents each) They loved it!!....but of course, the question was asked, "Did your helicopter have guns on it". I answered, "no we rescued people..and did not hurt people". Then all of a sudden...many of them said, "my daddy has a gun..my brother has a gun"...gun this..gun that. My wife told them to think about 'me' and I even tried to change the subject back. Hands were still going up and "gun this..gun that". It floored me!!! EVEN SOME OF THE GIRLS!! Even at this age..guns fascinate them...this is why shootings are occuring at lower and lower grade levels. It was a great learning experience, but an eye opener! (* I did make sure to tell them they (guns) were bad, never touch them....etc **)

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2000 F-150 XLT, 4x2, 5.4L Supercab, Styleside, Black with silver two-tone, 3.55, class III towing package with heavy duty cooling package, 4 wheel disk ABS, overhead console, sliding rear window, keyless entry, dark graphite interior, in dash CD, Pendaliner bedliner, K&N air filter, rubberized undercoating, cabin filtration system, Bugflector II, 5W-30 Mobil 1, engine build 10/4/99