Ok, so at our 20 something class on Sunday mornings, we are discussing drinking, and wether it is a sin or not. We are going off of strickly Bible verses, and not personal opinions.

I missed the first day, where they provided verses that stated drunkeness was a sin, so they have concluded that being drunk is a sin.

So, now we are onto drinking. Anyone out there had this discussion before, and have the versus brought up for either side. Looking for stuff, and different things to mention at the next class wether they are for, or against.


Merry Christmas everyone. :santa:

 

Orthodox Christians consume wine (an alcoholic beverage) at many religious functions such as Eucharist and is common in casual gatherings.

To be fair tho, there are approximately 38,000 Christian denominations in the world.

 

Drunkenness is the sin. Many denominations have rules against drinking , but those are their rules, not the bible's.

OTOH, if you are trying to live a life as an example to others, then having a Bud in your hand diminishes your witness. The possibility exists that your example could influence someone else to drink who may have a problem with alcohol. Yes, we are each accountable for our own actions, but the possibility of influence remains.

 

ever been to a catholic wedding? there are more kegs then 21st birthday parties. we had 5 kegs at my sisters wedding. awesome.

 

Drunkenness is a sin, without question. Ephesians 5:18.

 

5!?!?! dude thanks for the invite! sheesh! haha

 

Technically that passage stipulates drunk from consuming wine.

 

Having a Bud in your hand should be a sin in of itself. hahahahaha! Drink somethin better


/cant say much, last beer I bought was Miller High Life

 

Jesus did turn water into wine. I would have to look the verse up. I don't remember exactly where it is. I do believe it is in Luke, and Mark. But I don't remember a passage that actually says he drank it. But wine ad wine skins are referred to several times in the New Testament. But I do Think it is Gluttony that is considered a sin.

 

You're right. So here's more verses that say to avoid "strong drink".

Proverbs 20:1, Isaiah 5:11-12, Luke 21:24, Romans 13:13, Galatians 5:19-21.

Keep in mind the alcoholic beverages we have today are A LOT stronger than what they drank daily back then. When Jesus made the water into wine, it was basically grape juice with a slight alcoholic presence. It wouldn't be the 7-9% alcoholic wine (fermented) we have in stores today.

 

I'm catholic... we encourage drinking.

 

Drinking is not a sin by its self. Drinking to Excess however, is a different story. Nowhere in the Bible does it explicitly state that drinking is a sin. Though you don't know if you will be tempted to drink to excess (some are obviously) if you never take that first drink. I think that is the argument alot of people make. I know our Pastor says this.

 

I disagree with this line of thinking it steal the real power that occured. The miracle was not turning water into wine. It was instantly turning water into QUALITY wine. The passage clearly states that the wine was the best. For a wine to be the best it must have come from grapes that were harvested at the perfect time that came from the perfect field. Wine is then aged in two stages. The first is the fermentation stage where the alcohol is produced. If this stage is not long enough the wine is flat. If it lasts too long the wine is harsh and nasty. It is then filtered and bottled. The wine must now age for months to 50+ years until it reaches its peak. It takes a lifetime to know all of the fine nuances that require making quality wine.

You see the real miracle was Jesus showing that he was not a servant of time like all men are. To simply say it was weak grape juice steals the real power from the miracle. Otherwise a skeptic could argue that the pots had residue or a little bit left in them and Jesus just tricked the drunk crowd. Making quality wine requires skill (which takes lots of time to learn), perfect ingredients and years of waiting. Here a young man (no where near old enough to have the skill) who was a carpenter (where did the ingredients come from) made perfect wine in an instant. This is one of the only miracles of Jesus I can remember where he shows his power over nature and time. If you really understand how wine is made this miracle becomes much more powerful.

One other thing, most wine has 12-14% ABV.

 

I enjoyed your post about wine, but it's ridiculous to think that Christ would've made fermented wine that the the guests at the wedding could get drunk from. You will not find that anywhere in Scripture.

 

That is one debate we are having right now. The word "wine" in the bible translates more closely to "juice from grape", then what we call wine. It usually will go on to say wether it was fermented, strong, good, etc....

Back to the water into wine story. Jesus turned a lot of water into a lot of wine. So, with drunkeness being a sin, the debate is that Jesus, being all holy, would not create a situation where people would get drunk. So, unless there was thousands at this wedding, the amount water transformed into wine would have been more then enough to get everyone drunk.

One thing that makes it hard to figure out, is that the number of people at the wedding is not stated. So, if it was indeed fermented wine, then there would have to be a lot of people at the wedding to ensure that people weren't getting too much.
But you could also debate that Jesus made the wine for people to drink, and that it was their choice wether they visited the barrels too much and got drunken, just like with most choices/sin.

You could also argue that it was a fermented grape juice b/c who likes unfermented grape juice enough to drink that much. Jesus made a lot of grape juice that day, and it is hard to believe people were going back for thirds. Don't know about yall, but one glass of Welch's is enough for me.

These are all just different ideas brought up about the water into wine miracle. My opinion is that the answer is not in that story. Jesus, being all holy and perfect, turned water into the perfect amount of grape juice to supply the crowd at the wedding. Wether is was fermented or unfermented. The amount was the prefect amount for how ever many people attended.