Latest lie? What's that supposed to mean? Have I not been posting the progress of the kit here periodically? Sure things get pushed back as production parts get revised, and tuning issues are getting resolved, but why make a statement like that? At least Works is not "hiding" it's progress, or making up some BS excuses. You guys are being kept aware of the progress. We all would like our kits, (don't you think I want a 140 on MY truck?) but let's not attack the company for taking the proper measures to insure when the kit hits the market, it's 100%.

 

Sal,
I understand you taking offense, but I think he may have been speaking about REM? He posted this earlier:

Of course if he was directing that at you then excuse me while I butt out

later,
chris

 

That was not directed at you Sal in anyway. A couple of weeks ago I was talkin with Paul at Razors and we were joking around saying that the new release of the blower now the middle of January was the latest lie. I know things like this take time can have delays. I work in the construction industry and know perfectly well about delays.
I can't wait to get one even though it will be months before I canuse it

 

Ok, no problem! Kind of caught me off guard there. It's one thing for people to be like that when they are being lied to, but when you are doing the right thing and you still get stuff like that, it's like "what else can possibly be done?".

 

When I read that I thought it was funny as hell, but maybe the timing was bad

Thanks for the info Sal, and I have to ask this one too. How Much? Dale

 

Is this blower going to be useable on a stock engine? We are talking about 112 CI roots versus a 140 CI twin screw. Couldn't the 140 supply about 15 PSI to a stock engine without breaking a sweat? And as long as it is ahead of the surge line (do twin screws have a surge line?), then it should be fine on a stock engine, right?

Comparing 19 PSI with the Eaton is not really a fair comparison, Sal. At those boost levels, the Eaton is so far out of its efficient range that it's just making heat, not HP. I would think a more reasonable comparison would be about 10 or 12 PSI, which is just at the outer limits of the Eaton's useable boost range. I assume that the PSI-to-PSI gains should be roughly equivalent to those found by Holdener in his KB test. The 140 would just be able to provide more umph for a larger motor, correct?



p.s. - did you notice the A/C operated "SuperCooler" on the '04 Lightning concept truck? Remember our discussion of this several months ago? My engineer connection at Ford has never steered my wrong.

 

Well, I used the 19 psi comparision because I thought it made sense. I really don't see the point of spending thousands of dollars on a blower kit like the 140 and only running 15 psi. That's barely half the blowers potential, and the Eaton still makes tons of torque down low, as proven by Dale's Works 112 dyno over 600 ftlbs. The 140 will be more efficient at the same psi for sure, but like I said, if you're going to spring for a 140, then I'd take advantage of it's power and put it on top of a built motor. But I'm game for testing when the time comes.

As for the supercooler on the 04 concept, I had that idea several years ago. I discussed the design at length with one of my customers in CA with the twin blown 99 (many of you know him) and he actually did it on it truck. I've not heard anyone else use that idea until this new article. Pretty cool (pun intended).

Oh BTW, all the graphs and data on the 112 on Eaton's site are bogus. They are not real tested data, they were "theoretical" made up data based on engineer speculation.

 

As I mentioned before, this cooling concept has been in development at Ford for a while. I believe that "the Fridge" had a prototype system in it at one time. Awesome idea.

Keep the dyno data coming! Us stock motor/keep it simple guys need love too.

 

One last thing, Sal. What exactly is a "built" motor as that phrase is used around here. Just rods and pistons, right? How much does this cost (parts and labor)?

 

Well, it's easier to scrape together 3k for a blower than it is to scrape together 3k for a blower, 4k for a built block, 2k more for Mod Max heads etc. It would make sense to a lot of people to do it a piece at a time. I know that's the way I woudl be doing it. I've been through the days of dropping 10-15k all at once and then it breaks....then you gotta come up with even more money to get it all going again.

Quote:

As for the supercooler on the 04 concept, I had that idea several years ago. I discussed the design at length with one of my customers in CA with the twin blown 99 (many of you know him) and he actually did it on it truck. I've not heard anyone else use that idea until this new article. Pretty cool (pun intended).

Oh BTW, all the graphs and data on the 112 on Eaton's site are bogus. They are not real tested data, they were "theoretical" made up data based on engineer speculation.

 

Right, what I meant was at least have a short block that can handle what the 140 can produce. Heads are optional. The 140 has made over 500rwhp on a stock motored truck, so if that's the kind of power you are after, then you don't need heads. With the heads, at the same boost level, that same truck made almost 560, and that was not fully tuned ( just made a few pulls because the truck was snuck on the dnyo between cars). But of course you need a built bottom end to handle that kind of power. The truck used is a 99, so it's stock rods could handle the 500rwhp. The limit for an 01-up is about 450ish. As for price, check out our site for our complete lower end package, and we usually get about $4200 for a built shortblock, all new, no core, balanced and blueprinted.

 

Built motors are usually like the specs on this REM shortblock

Good to 800 Horsepower
CP or Ross forged racing pistons
Plasma moly rings (filed to clearance fit)
Manley or Eagle H-Beam rods
Federal Mogul racing rod bearings
Federal Mogul trimetal main bearings
ARP main stud kit
ARP head stud kit
New Ford side studs (for mains)
Rotating assembly is computer balanced
Entire unit blue printed during assembly
Bored blocks are decked

They are not limited to simply replacing those components either. Many have higher flow oil pumps and more

There is also different terminology associated with the engines.

A short block has bottom end only, no heads or accesories. Oil pan included varies from builder to builder.

A long block includes heads and a lower intake i believe. I'm not sure how this works on engines such as the L's, whether or not a blower is included. I believe it's not

If i'm wrong on anything here feel free to correct me.

 

Like Sal said the difference with a K/B or Works is that it does not fall off in the upper rpm bracket. The torque just gradually tapers off instead of dropping like a rock. The hp keeps climbing almost to the top of the run. At any boost level both of these blowers are way better than stock. At the same boost levels these blowers will make about 50 rwhp over stock. Just buy the one that you like. Skip

 

I know of one of the prototype Works 140's out here. On a stock 99 motor, it conservatively made 441 RWHP.

The real impressive thing, is that number was made with no increase in pulley size. It had a stock bottom pulley and the standard size Works pulley. It's making about 15 lbs of boost.

This blower is very efficient.

 

I see what your saying, but IMO I'd have to say thats not the case with every one.

Look at some of the mods that most of the people have:
electric fan
water pump
pulley's
exhaust's
air intake
porting the plenum
throttle bodies

The price of all those combined comes close to if not exceeds the price of the newer blowers and peoples reports are saying that it's giving about the same power as those. Plus at a later time you can add those mods for more power. I know a few people that would have gone the new blower first, and even though I don't really have many mods I'd would go that route also.

I think one of the things that Tim is getting to is with these newer more efficient blowers, how far can we push the stock blocks before we are forced into the built engine? I for one would like to know that because I'm considering that as my next performance mod, even though it's big $$$.