Steve/Doug- I know this may not belong in another forum, but I know that there are Ford/ex-Ford techs in this forum. So if you feel the need to move it go ahead.

Anyway ....


My grandfather has a 97' Mercury Sable and his check engine light came on over the weekend. So I scanned the code and it came out as:
P0443 EVAP EMIS CTRL PURGE CRTL VALV MALF

So this morning he brought it to a local Ford dealership and they supposedly fixed the problem. Right before he gets home the light popped on again. So I scanned the DTC code again and it came up as the same thing. I was like WTF

Fords service order form had them as fixing the problem with the following parts:

Valve asy f l vapor p FMC# F7DZ 9C915 AA $47.16
solenoid asy canist FMC# F7DZ 9F945 AD $54.29
canister asy ful vap FMC# F6DZ 9D653DA $75.49

total parts was $176.94
labor was $270
total 446.94


Now I don't know anything about the actual problem or those parts listed, but $450 and the problem not solved I'm concerned with for my grandfather.

Does this seem right to anyone? Or could there be more parts involved that they didn't replace?

He's going back tomorrow and the man will not question anything, he will just hand over the money. So I don't want them to rip him off.

Just being concerned. Plus with the week I'm having I don't want to go there and have to take my frustatrions out on them if I find out they are ripping him off.

Thanks
Pete

 

Pete

Where does your grandfather live?
Maybe take a road trip to Va and get superfords to fix it. Then he could do a photo op on the Sable.

But I wonder if they "forgot" to erase the code? Disconnect the battery, what have you got to lose?

 

Yeah, bring it to VA and I'll do a step by step photo review of me fixing your granddads EVAP system! I'm sure that would thrill everybody here!

seriously though, just glancing at your story, it sounds as if all the vehicle needed was an EVAP cannister purge valve. it APPEARS as if they replaced the Carbon Cannister, the Cannister purge valve, AND the Vapor Management valve! I'm not 100% on this because I don't know part numbers and the "shorthand" descriptions on the receipt don't always match up to what the part is called in the shop or in the parts department.

In any event, if I'm correct, in my assumption that they replace all 3 of these parts, this means that they basically replaced the whole system! Either they just didn't feel like diagnosing the actual failed part and decided to sell him everything to cover all the bases, or they guessed (or made an incorrect diagnosis) at a part, and when that didn't fix it, they just kept throwing parts until they ran out of parts for this system.

I know this sounds bad, but I'm just giving my opinion based on the VERY limited info that I have. I wasn't there in the shop to see what happened during the diag or repair and I'm not even 100% based on that part number info as to exactly which parts were replaced, but it sounds like to me they replaced everything.

Now assuming they really did replace all 3 of the parts that I listed, the only thing I can think of is that either the wiring to the cannister vent valve is bad or the PCM is bad. unless the tech didn't fully plug the vent solenoid in and you are still getting a circuit fault (not impossible, but HIGHLY unlikely).

please understand that this is impossible to diagnose from here, and I don't want to condemn whoever worked on the car, because I really don't know what happened or even what is really wrong with the car.

HERE IS WHAT YOU DO NOW! First of all, you already paid for a repair that they told you would fix the vehicle. IT DIDN'T. DO NOT PAY ANOTHER PENNY!!! If the vehicle needed more parts, they should have called you before you picked it up and asked for your (or rather your grandad's) approval to go further with either diagnosis or parts/labor. They did not do this. They released the vehicle to you implying that it was fixed.

If they have the nerve to ask for more money, then simply tell them that you are more than willing to pay for whatever it costs to fix the vehicle AFTER they properly diagnose it and give you and estimate. HOWEVER, you expect a FULL REFUND on the repairs that you have already paid for, because obviously they didn't fix the problem. this means you paid for these repairs for nothing, they didn't fix your car and if the problem is still there, then what did you pay for? ask them why should you NOT get your money back?

If the service advisor is not helpful, then don't bother talking with him or her any further, immediately request to speak with the service manager. deal with these people in a calm and reasonable manner, getting mad and rude doesn't always work. some dealerships will tell you to carry your angry butt off of the lot and never come back!

assuming you have to go to the service manager and he/she isn't willing to take care of you, then say thank you and tell them you are going to see the dealership's General Manager. by now you should have already gotten the desired result. if not, then go to the owner and then your local news or BBB.

anyway, sorry for the long post, but the moral of the story is. don't give them any more money! if they say they need more money to fix whatever is wrong, tell them OK, but you want the money back that DIDN'T fix the car the first time.

good luck.

later,
chris

 

Bruce - little to far to drive, besides I don't think anyone would want a photo install of a sable

Chris - thats just the advice I was looking for. I think your conclusion about replacing the whole thing instead of trying to single out the piece itself is correct. It's more money for them and less diagnosing time (which could save us in labor). But like I said, I don't want to have to go up there to handle the situation without knowing everything, nor do I want to place blame on anyone there without proof. Pop is old and easy to take advantage, and no offense but I don't trust dealerships until they've proved they can be trusted.

Thanks for advice, I owe you a if your ever in NJ.

 

there are some quick checks you can do on your own. check the resistance of the purge flow valve with the engine cold. should be about 35 ohms. there are some more things you might want to check. Like the vapor management valve. make sure it supplied vacuum from the intake and opens to pull that cvacuum when commanded. with out the proper tools though, its goign to be hard to do. you need a WDS so that you can perform an evap test to verify the fix. I have seen VMV's stick and cause this same code. tapping on it with a screwdriver has been known to unstick it at times. And I am a tech