Lightning

equation for displacement vs psi

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  #16  
Old 04-16-2003 | 08:06 PM
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From: Motor City
Originally posted by grinomyte
alright soap, cmon fork it over itll drive me nuts, whats 8.8? SOMETHING is 8.8
A common rear end in early Mustangs

--Joe
 
  #17  
Old 04-16-2003 | 08:10 PM
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From: Motor City
Originally posted by grinomyte
boost is determined by how fast the s/c so i dont think you can determine it until you know what pullies and what engine its gonna run on.
That isn't entirely true. Boost is a measure of how well a motor flows air.

Take 2 Lightning motors for example:

1-stock heads, exhaust, cams, pistons, valves and a 4# lower........say it makes 12 psi.

2-ported heads, full exhaust, aftermarket pistons/valves and a 4# lower.........say it makes 10psi.

Ya follow brutha...........oh and I still don't know what the 8.8 is

--Joe
 
  #18  
Old 04-16-2003 | 08:33 PM
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HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAA

8.8 IS a mustang rear end. Man i feel stupid.

Oh and yes boost is determined by other things too, i meant in general, but touche.
 
  #19  
Old 04-16-2003 | 10:49 PM
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Coldie is half right, its a little more involved. The temp of the air coming out of the intercooler is not ambient. So its not as dense as the air a NA engine of coldie's equations would be sucking in.
Lets take a 6lb for example:
(14.7+8+6)/14.7 = 1.95 thats the absolute pressure of the manifold. That puts us at 5.4L * 1.95 = 10.53L

Through the magic of physics we get that the temp of the air after the intercooler is about 145 degrees on a 80 degree day. The density of the air is (460+80)/(460+145)=.89

So we get an equivalent displacement of *drum roll*
9.37L

Soap,
An NA car could have better flowing heads, cams, etc to increase power without increasing displacement. This is all things being equal.
 
  #20  
Old 04-16-2003 | 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by Sublime
Coldie is half right, its a little more involved. The temp of the air coming out of the intercooler is not ambient. So its not as dense as the air a NA engine of coldie's equations would be sucking in.
Lets take a 6lb for example:
(14.7+8+6)/14.7 = 1.95 thats the absolute pressure of the manifold. That puts us at 5.4L * 1.95 = 10.53L

Through the magic of physics we get that the temp of the air after the intercooler is about 145 degrees on a 80 degree day. The density of the air is (460+80)/(460+145)=.89

So we get an equivalent displacement of *drum roll*
9.37L

Soap,
An NA car could have better flowing heads, cams, etc to increase power without increasing displacement. This is all things being equal.
Why wouldn't you do a volumetric efficiency analysis? Measure the volumetric efficiency of the stock 5.4. Then measure it again with the supercharger and use the result to extrapolate the effective displacement? I'm no engineer, but it seems like this would give a reliable number.
 
  #21  
Old 04-16-2003 | 11:23 PM
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Re: No no no...

Originally posted by Coldie
OK, here's the formula:

330 * ( (PSI boost+14.7)/14.7)

That will give you the best guess for a NA engine. Note that it isn't the same because the SC will use power, but it's as close as spitting distance will get you...

So:

Stock: 509 ci
4lb pulley: 599 ci
6lb pulley: 644 ci
10lb pulley: 734 ci

This is just a blind formula to compare air usage. It does not imply anything about power or torque curves.

Coldie
Obviously. The per-PSI power increase sucks for all pullies. It is far from linear. As you noted below, the difference is density and temperature.
 
  #22  
Old 04-16-2003 | 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by Fast Gator
I was told at 8lbs of boost, we have doubled the displacement. Don't know if thats true or not.

btw.......sea level is 14.7 psi
Which is why you have not doubled the displacement until 14.7 PSI, even in a perfect world.
 
  #23  
Old 04-16-2003 | 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by Tim Skelton
Why wouldn't you do a volumetric efficiency analysis? Measure the volumetric efficiency of the stock 5.4. Then measure it again with the supercharger and use the result to extrapolate the effective displacement? I'm no engineer, but it seems like this would give a reliable number.
Thats just displacement x pressure ratio, since:
pressure ratio = (SC displacement * sc rpm * sc VE)/(engine displacement * engine rpm * engine VE)

It still doesn't take into account the density of the air.
 
  #24  
Old 04-17-2003 | 12:57 AM
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It's pointless...

The real question is: what is the point?

We can keep adding terms to get "more correct" but even then, it doesn't really matter.

The easiest thing to do would be to simply measure the MAF reading at an RPM and poof, you've got a theoretical displacement...

Still not sure what we are trying to figure out though.

Thanks to Sublime for throwing in the temperature info.

Coldie
 
  #25  
Old 04-17-2003 | 01:33 AM
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i was just curious what sort of displacement your looking at after boost in theory. thats all, sorry it got all super technical.

And yeah i didnt even think about tempertature, that messes everything up.
 
  #26  
Old 04-17-2003 | 02:54 AM
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barometric pressure...

Your atmospheric pressure will change things as well...

Coldie
 
  #27  
Old 04-17-2003 | 03:02 AM
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yeah but i was considering it to be basically sea level at ambient 80 or so, but the thing thats important to work past is the temperature creating during compression, plus the temperature cooled by the intercooler, everything gets too complicated,
 
  #28  
Old 04-17-2003 | 03:20 AM
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I heard 15psi effectively doubles your discplacement. 3.0 with 15psi=6.0
 



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